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Posted: 7/6/2001 5:11:21 AM EDT
How do these two rifle compare, especially as Class 3 weapons? Both interest me a great deal, but I would appreciate your imput, experiences, challanges. I'm looking for the positive and negatives on each rifle... I am leaning to the FNC, but I'm not sure about parts availability and weight. Does the FNC have a chrome lined bore? Any comments, suggestions would be great. Thanks, fuatos
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 6:51:54 AM EDT
The FNC has a chrome lined bore and the weight is a bit high (so is the HK 93). The parts supply there is a couple of places that have them in stock. If I remember correctly, Tampa Bay Police Supply has almost all the FNC parts in stock. That's was like 2-3 years ago. I remember that S&H converison of the FNC to Full-auto was not that expensive in comparison to the ARs full-autos. In addition, you got something different on the firing line. Plus, the FNC takes all NATO AR mags. Look for the SAR issuses about the FNC full-auto converison. It is a two part article.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 7:16:01 AM EDT
Ok, A couple of minor corrections-- 1. Tampa Bay Military and Police is like the Paul308 of the Class 3 world--I don't even believe they are open any longer. Currently, Cole Distributing and DSA are the ones who have parts. Don's Guns in Florida used to have some parts, but I am not sure about that now. 2. The weight is a bit heavy for a .223 rifle is correct. However, there are some real benefits to the gun--it is solidly made, and it's folding stock is superb. My 18" semi is shorter than any of my other guns by a good bit when the stock is folded--it fits into a case made for an fixed stock MP-5. 3. The conversion to full auto is only done by Curtis Higgins of S & H Arms in Oklahoma. He is the person who registered all the sears. Currently (as of about 2 months ago) the Sear is $1600 and the 3 rd. Burst is $300--the Sear price includes the conversion and re-marking to S-1-3-A. 4. The only part that I have heard of breakage on the gun is the firing pin, and I have heard from someone that that might be due to a slight timing problem with early full auto conversions. I keep hearing of FNC's that go several thousand rounds with no problems whatsoever. Bottom line--if you were only going to get one full auto, it should probably be an M-16 because you can change uppers to various calibers and barrel lengths. If you knew you were going to get more than one, the FNC is an excellent gun to have in any collection. AFARR
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 7:26:52 AM EDT
I love the FNC for semi-auto shooting since it seems to have a very quick recoil pulse, much like shooting a Benelli shotgun. However, full auto is another story. The thing turns int a rattle trap for some reason and you hear all sorts of cheesy clacking noises coming from the action. I fired one FNC full auto and noted to the owner "very nice", but he just shook his head and said "it rattles, doesn't it". I normally never dog another man's gun, but I had to agree on this one. In semi, I would take the FNC, but for full auto the M16 is nicer in my opinion.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 8:24:05 AM EDT
Both are very reliable...M16 is lighter and parts more readily available...both equally accurate...m16 a bit more expensive....all said, I prefer the m16 or "reg receiver" auto ar15.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 10:40:44 AM EDT
Two points: 1. FNC accepts all AR mags including BetaC. 2. FNC is the movie Al Pacino was running around with in "Heat." That pretty much did it for me. Very cool rifle, TRUE side folder and you WILL be the only guy at the range with one.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 5:32:07 PM EDT
Thanks for the posts! I am a little concerned about the rattle trap comments. Anyone else had this experience? Thanks, fuatos
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 6:02:13 PM EDT
AFARR, thanks for the updated info.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 7:22:20 PM EDT
Typically, gun-guys like to show off their toys at the range, and I CERTAINLY do too. But I will never give someone a line of BS to be "cool". If you are interested in your "image", by all means go with the FNC. Hands down, it is substantially more cool than just another M16 like everyone else's. If you want to smoke your target and shoot full auto groups ON PAPER (no one ever has the balls to do this these days since they might embarrass themselves) then you will be better off with a 20" M16 with an A2 stock. Sure, the 7" barreled M16 CAR's are cool and the FNC "chatterbox" will get you more attention at the range, but it just depends on your own personality profile. I will never win this argument, and personally I don't care to. You will find that the attitude of many gun enthusiasts is simply to persuade you to agree with them, since whatever they own, must be the best. Until you own it all, you really can't make a good call on the situation. I try my best to not regurgitate what has been repeated by the masses, but rather use my own unbiased opinion with my own personal experiences. I have taken a lot of heat for this, but I've got a pretty thick skin....so bring it on. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 8:15:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: 2. FNC is the movie Al Pacino was running around with in "Heat."
View Quote
Using that logic, you would have to accept that the AR15/M16 is a much better weapon since DeNiro and Kilmer were so much more effective with them than Pacino was with his FNC. Geez, just watch each of them reloading during the downtown firefight. Pacino fumbles with the FNC. That pretty much did it for me. [:)] Seriously, I just think the AR15/M16 is the bettter weapon.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 8:16:14 PM EDT
Tony-- On paper like this: [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1157297&a=11109695&p=41846697&Sequence=0&res=high[/img] That is with an FNC on full auto using the trigger to get bursts. (I won't admit to how many mags it took to get those on paper--and that was only at 25 yards.) The keyholes are interesting--I believe the FNC is a slow twist--about 1 in 12". I had a mish-mash of ammo with me--some Winchester Q3131 (remember that stuff??), some green tip, and some 68 grain match Black Hills stuff. I am reasonably certain that the keyholes are from the 68 grain stuff--I don't think the 62 grain stuff is heavy/long enough to destabilize that much in a slow twist barrel. I will agree with Tony--even with a semi-auto on rapid fire, it is easier to shoot well with the AR series than the FNC. However, I think the FNC is probably a more durable gun, and it definitely gets the cool prize. I have not had a chance to shoot an HK 33 or 93--I would bet the HK does quite well rapid fire, or in full auto--for some reason, I really like the HK sights. Although, given some of Tony's monstrosities (Tony--I'm going to build a dedicated AR in .50 AE or in one of your Tromix building crushing calibers), I would seriously doubt ANYONE could keep those on paper full auto!! AFARR
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 8:25:20 PM EDT
AFARR, I shot SS109 in my FNC and other 1/12 twist rifles. It does keyhole and shoots wide groups.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 8:52:05 PM EDT
My FNC is also a 1/12 and does better with 55 gr. ammo. Mine is NOT full auto so I cannot comment on the "rattle." As far as "cool factor", this has a lot to do with appreciation by the owner. For the amount of money being spent, it should come with a fair amount of "cool."
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 10:20:28 PM EDT
when it comes to a coolness factor nothing says cool like anything going FA!
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 10:22:33 PM EDT
I have to admit, I don't remember if "my" FNC rattles. I am now in IL going to school, so my brother is the registered owner of it for now--he doesn't mind getting the paperwork filled out and keeping my guns company for a little while. I will have him pull it out and see what he can hear. I have one semi-FNC now (another 18" para), and just sent off the MO for a 16" para (I sold a pre-ban Colt M-4gery to get that one). At least one of them will get converted shortly. I may keep one in semi (probably the 18"), but I will have at least two nice full auto FNC's. I did just order 2 firing pins from DSA, just in case. I'll also keep my eyes open for a few other odd spare parts when they become available. AFARR
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 10:54:23 PM EDT
Can I express how much I hate all you people. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 2:10:53 AM EDT
Each of the MG's has its own "feel" to it when shooting and unless you have fired a large assortment, it is hard to have a objective opinion. I have found that the most controlable and "softest" shooting .223 MG is the Galil ARM. That is probably due to the rather long bolt throw on the AK design, coupled with the greater weight of the ARM. The Valmets and other AK's are pretty soft shooting as well when chambered in .223. I have shot the HK53 quite a bit too, and I find myself having to really concentrate on keeping the thing on the target, however it really does stack 'em on the target when I have my act together. The FNC does not have the "soft" chugging feel to it...its more of a real quick stecatto effect which causes the sights to jump around when firing. The Steyr Aug is fairly easy to control in FA, but I personally have trouble fumbling around with that rear mounted magazine. All in all, if I really want to put a long burst right on the target, the M16 with a 20" barrel and A2 stock is really hard to beat in a somewhat affordable gun. A transferable Galil may be easier to control, but they are damn expesnive these days.
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 3:44:21 AM EDT
The FNC does not have a bolt hold open device. And the selector ergonomics are all wierd. M16 please.
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