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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 7/4/2001 3:37:12 PM EDT
Alright guys, here's a question for those members who are on L.E. Tac/Spec Ops teams, local through fed. How many members on the teams(s)? How many (any?) are females? What are their assignments? Any on the entry team? Arrest team? Sniper/observer? Perimeter security? Evidence collection? On the three tac teams I have served on there have been 0 females in any role.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:00:11 PM EDT
just outta curiosity, what's the purpose behind this line of questioning?
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:05:35 PM EDT
General curiosity
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:06:10 PM EDT
Why do you ask?
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:07:51 PM EDT
I wont say who, what, when or why but we had a "lady" on our team that was the best. She was raised with six brothers in Texas. She didn't take any crap from anyone. Her Father was an Admiral in the USN. She was GOOD!
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:13:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2001 4:11:41 PM EDT by Beachboy]
Really? That's interesting, can you at least say what her assignment(s) were? How large an area/population base did the team serve? How often did it function in a tac role?
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:15:52 PM EDT
Originally posted by Beachboy: Why do you ask?
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no reason in particular. just my own general curiosity about why you were asking. wanted to get a hint of what, if any, direction you wanted this to go. so's i could stay far, far away if need be. FWIW, it wasn't a flame starter. and it wasn't asked in a defensive manner.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:21:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2001 4:19:44 PM EDT by Beachboy]
Great, neither is this thread. It's not my intent to do any female bashing. I am fully supportive of females in Law Enforcement and have been the FTO for more than 10 female officers when I was a Field Training Officer. I have been a supporter (if silent) of you in past threads. I hope you don't feel you need to stay away from any topic that I may post.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:21:42 PM EDT
I would like to participate in unit insertion and extraction exercises with tac team womenz.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:23:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: I would like to participate in unit insertion and extraction exercises with tac team womenz.
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I bet you would.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:29:51 PM EDT
whew! glad to hear it. and thanks for the comment on the support thing. but if i were you i would be careful about saying those kinds of things. you'll be accused of kissing up to me just because i'm a woman frequenting a BB devoted to a male-dominated activity. Great! now that that's outta the way. please post some answers quick. i'm kinda curious too.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:38:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady: whew! glad to hear it. and thanks for the comment on the support thing. but if i were you i would be careful about saying those kinds of things. you'll be accused of kissing up to me just because i'm a woman frequenting a BB devoted to a male-dominated activity. Great! now that that's outta the way. please post some answers quick. i'm kinda curious too.
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Sorry, I was raised in the South and have a lot of old Southern traditions that are ingrained in my personality. So, if it seems to be "kissing up to a female", it just plain politeness. Besides, I know who and what I am. Thanks for the warning though.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:50:13 PM EDT
I would like to know how many of the tac team womenz use the MK23 socom as their carry/duty weapon of choice ??? another thread gave me the idea to ask. [}:D]
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:53:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Butkus 51: I would like to know how many of the tac team womenz use the MK23 socom as their carry/duty weapon of choice ??? another thread gave me the idea to ask. [}:D]
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TAC-GIRL /Jenni?
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:58:46 PM EDT
Aye Aye beachboy.....thats affirmative.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:02:46 PM EDT
She is welcome to participate is this conversation also. I asked her in her thread what agency she worked for, but so far she has failed to respond.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:09:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beachboy: She is welcome to participate is this conversation also. I asked her in her thread what agency she worked for, but so far she has failed to respond.
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I remember. It was stated long ago by TAC-GIRL that TAC-GIRL worked in the S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y field.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:12:19 PM EDT
It's silly but all I can say it was within the US DOE system. OPSEC. In fact, I just had to sign another secrecy agreement two days ago. Bad Ju Ju.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:19:10 PM EDT
Careful, you're close to giving away too much info. But since you brought it up...D.O.E. employee or civilian security contractor?
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:35:11 PM EDT
In our tac team there are no females. However there is one who is asking about it. So far several members have been responsive to the possibility.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:37:18 PM EDT
Speaking of DOE, I've trained with them a couple of times and have not seen any women.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:02:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By seb127: In our tac team there are no females. However there is one who is asking about it. So far several members have been responsive to the possibility.
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I have seen several female officers try out in the past. Shooting and stamina drills (i.e. running/swimming) they do fine and pass all qualification expectations. However, when it gets to the upper body strength qualifications, such as rope climb and ram drills, this were they seem to have the most difficulty.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:38:31 PM EDT
Well, i'm no Spec-Op, but common sense dictates men and women are definitley different creatures, and suited to different jobs. It's nature. Like it or not. I don't think anyone would disagree that if a woman is qualified, she should definitley get the "job".... It isn't a matter of hiring qualified women. It's a matter of "How many women are going to be truly qualified to hold certian LEO jobs?" Physiological differences between males and females immediatley preclude the majority of women from certian duties...And the contentious "emotionial" factor is there too. If the statistical annomoly woman pops up, who is an exception to this rule, she should get the job. No doubt. But thinking women and men are always "equal" in certian areas of endeavor, especially in many LEO functions, is completley idiotic. On a side note, there is never a time when I would rather be pulled over by a female officer, as opposed to a male officer. I have yet to encounter one who is even marginally civil. It's like they have to prove "they are one of the boys" and act like a little hard-ass with hooters....at the expense of any member of the general public they are dealing with. McUZI.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:50:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _McUZI: Well, i'm no Spec-Op, but common sense dictates men and women are definitley different creatures, and suited to different jobs. It's nature. Like it or not. I don't think anyone would disagree that if a woman is qualified, she should definitley get the "job".... It isn't a matter of hiring qualified women. It's a matter of "How many women are going to be truly qualified to hold certian LEO jobs?" Physiological differences between males and females immediatley preclude the majority of women from certian duties...And the contentious "emotionial" factor is there too. If the statistical annomoly woman pops up, who is an exception to this rule, she should get the job. No doubt. But thinking women and men are always "equal" in certian areas of endeavor, especially in many LEO functions, is completley idiotic. On a side note, there is never a time when I would rather be pulled over by a female officer, as opposed to a male officer. I have yet to encounter one who is even marginally civil. It's like they have to prove "they are one of the boys" and act like a little hard-ass with hooters....at the expense of any member of the general public they are dealing with. McUZI.
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I don't disagree with the majority of your post. There are many differences that will have a bearing on the outcome of any given incident. Body make-up and physical strength included. However, I have also seen female officers show more compassion for victims and their families (wait, I don't mean boo-hoo-hoo, I mean clear thinking and problem solving compassion); an inate ability to calm small children, older persons and the mentally deranged on more than one occasion. I've seen female outperform males in precision shooting drills with handgun, rifle and SMG (not often, but I've seen it happen).
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 2:32:07 AM EDT
Let's throw this back up for another day
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 9:07:14 AM EDT
The Los Angeles County Sheriffs has one, she was featured on a History Channel show about snipers, SWAT teams or something. I don't remember her assignment but they showed her shooting. A couple of years back I saw a report about women in LE. They said female officers were more likely to resolve problems and make arrests without the use of force.
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 10:24:05 AM EDT
About 18 years ago Miami police department had their first woman SWAT member. She was the first at that time in South Florida and since she was a new member she had perimeter duty. I don't know if she is still with the team. Few weeks later I saw her shooting at the local indoor range and her handgun shooting ability was not very good (I'm being kind). I don't think there are any other female officers in SWAT teams here in South Florida.
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 4:36:14 PM EDT
So far we have one super secret, can't tell you who, where, when, etc. and one in the past in both L.A. and in So. Florida. Nobody active?
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 6:42:42 PM EDT
any others?
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 7:56:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BKinzey: The Los Angeles County Sheriffs has one, she was featured on a History Channel show about snipers, SWAT teams or something. I don't remember her assignment but they showed her shooting.
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I saw this too and was unimpressed by either sniper. But the female did look like an ok guy.
A couple of years back I saw a report about women in LE. They said female officers were more likely to resolve problems and make arrests without the use of force.
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Ummmmmmm......NO. Not in my experience. They are usually more easily threatened and as a result will resort to the sidearm more frequently than men.
Originally Posted By Beachboy: I've seen female outperform males in precision shooting drills with handgun, rifle and SMG (not often, but I've seen it happen).
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And I've seen really fast boats in the Atlantic at odd hours with minority crews that WERE NOT running drugs. But it usually ain't the case. Every so often the agency I worked for tried to qaulify a female for our team. They would seek out and hand pick candidates that just might be able to do it. Males candidates of course, did not receive any kind of special interest and were left to seek their own promotion. But anyway, there was actually a program within some B.S.P.C. department that actively sought out possible candidates and tried to shoe them in to "male dominated" areas. About every three months we would get a new candidate for "field evaluation." In 90% of the cases it was not her ambition or even her idea to be there. But the program incentives were good. The guys were mostly impartial, too busy worrying about doing the job to bother with a "keep it for the guys" agenda. Every candidate failed for one reason or another. I believe the fact that it was NOT their idea was crucial to their failure. A few could have made it if they possessed the drive and desire. But MOST, and I mean 95%, just couldn't begin to manage the training let alone do the job. I remember seeing them do things during exercises and thinking "that would get us all killed..." Many of them shot incredibly bad, usually fell in full gear and generally couldn't keep the situation straight. They were often confused and or paniced. And these were just exercises. As a result, the majority of females in the agency receive administrative positions. Since they cannot actually perform the tasks, a place is made for them to instruct those who can as to how best perform "their" job. Seems "boss" is the only thing they are good at. The result is very few "males" at the administrative level. Every wonder how Ms. Reno got her job? And look at the job she did. Perhaps if she had "some" background as a field agent, she would not have made such horrible decisions at Waco. But then again, she probably couldn't have handled the training to "be" a field agent. So they found a job for her and let her make decisions for those who had a job "she" couldn't do.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 2:33:50 AM EDT
Don't forget Ms. Reno's history of fraudulent prosecutions for child abuse while with the FLA Attorney General's office.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 3:16:54 AM EDT
I am surprised we haven't heard from Tac-girl yet. I thought she would welcome this opportunity to express her self and show her support for tactical women?
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 4:55:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By Beachboy: I've seen female outperform males in precision shooting drills with handgun, rifle and SMG (not often, but I've seen it happen).
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And I've seen really fast boats in the Atlantic at odd hours with minority crews that WERE NOT running drugs. But it usually ain't the case.
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OT, but I hope this wasn't your criteria for "probable cause"...
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 5:57:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ckapsl:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By Beachboy: I've seen female outperform males in precision shooting drills with handgun, rifle and SMG (not often, but I've seen it happen).
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And I've seen really fast boats in the Atlantic at odd hours with minority crews that WERE NOT running drugs. But it usually ain't the case.
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OT, but I hope this wasn't your criteria for "probable cause"...
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Hey, no profiling here...
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 6:22:47 PM EDT
I thought there'd be more response by now..
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 6:27:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beachboy: Hey, no profiling here...
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Unclear...
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 6:32:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2001 6:35:32 PM EDT by Beachboy]
Originally Posted By ckapsl:
Originally Posted By Beachboy: Hey, no profiling here...
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Unclear...
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Reference your post about SteyrAUG's observation of fast boats with minority crews...he wouldn't profile...neither would I... we both know that would be...unconstitutional
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 6:39:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beachboy: Reference you post about SteyrAUG's observation of fast boats with minority crews...he wouldn't profile...neither would I...
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Re-reading Steyr's post above, I think he just said that he did. How else could that be read? It certainly made me feel warm and fuzzy... Anyway, I have no desire to hijack your topic, so this is my last post. Sorry to bring it up in the first place, but I could not let that remark slide without at least asking where it came from.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 6:53:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ckapsl:
Originally Posted By Beachboy: Reference you post about SteyrAUG's observation of fast boats with minority crews...he wouldn't profile...neither would I...
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Re-reading Steyr's post above, I think he just said that he did. How else could that be read? It certainly made me feel warm and fuzzy... Anyway, I have no desire to hijack your topic, so this is my last post. Sorry to bring it up in the first place, but I could not let that remark slide without at least asking where it came from.
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I cannot speak for StyerAUG as to his intent or if he ever used those qualifiers to initiate a stop, board and search, as that I do not know the gentleman. However I can say based on my years in L.E., including several years assigned to drug interdiction and enforcement, many...if not most of the stereotypes are highly accurate. Blacked out, go-fast boat, off shore, running hard at night. Minority male standing on inner-city corner, with cars slowing to stop and "talk", while another, minority male retrieves a small package from a nearby water-meter; rain spout; abandoned car...what are they doing? Reasonable suspicion leads to probable cause. Experience lends creditability to reasonable suspicion.
Link Posted: 7/6/2001 9:12:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ckapsl:
Originally Posted By Beachboy: Reference you post about SteyrAUG's observation of fast boats with minority crews...he wouldn't profile...neither would I...
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Re-reading Steyr's post above, I think he just said that he did. How else could that be read? It certainly made me feel warm and fuzzy... Anyway, I have no desire to hijack your topic, so this is my last post. Sorry to bring it up in the first place, but I could not let that remark slide without at least asking where it came from.
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To answer the probable cause question. We usually do not just fly around in hopes of a drug boat running into us. We are usually more organized than your usual Democrat. In most cases(read: all), shipments have been tracked by agents from the source and are intercepted when they enter U.S. waters. But to answer your question specifically, yes we might board and check a boat with the above factors. Of course if it we full of white people we would also board. The boat itself, combined with the hours and course of travel, are more of a profile than the race of the crew. In addition, in defense of profiling. If a LE detains a person based upon "indicators" and is wrong, at this point you simply let the subject continue on their merry way. Hopefully with an apology on the part of the officer. And if you don't believe LEs profile ALL races for various crimes you are an idiot. When we see a white guy coming out of a meth lab we don't assume he was there to install cable TV.
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 5:02:45 AM EDT
StreyAUG We are obviously in agreement here, but this has gone way off topic. So guys, any females on your response team?
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 8:42:40 AM EDT
btt
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