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Posted: 7/4/2001 12:20:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2001 12:18:18 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
This is what you get for repeatedly voting for "the lesser of 2 evils". Don Feder A Letter From The Founding Fathers Wed Jul 4 02:03:33 2001 July 4, 2001 A Letter From The Founding Fathers From: The Founding Fathers To: The current generation of Americans On this the 225th anniversary of our independence, those of us you call the Founding Fathers have assembled in Continental heaven to assess the condition of the republic we bequeathed to you. It's true America has become the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth. But so was the British Empire in 1776. Before we get specific, we must confess that we are annoyed by your habit of misinterpreting our words. Take the First Amendment, where we said Congress shall make no law "respecting an establishment of religion." You usually neglect the other half of the injunction, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." As anyone in the first Congress, which passed the amendment, could have told you, "establishment of religion" means an established church, which all are forced to support. We never intended to create a virtue-less republic, by prohibiting public expressions of faith. In the Declaration of Independence, we acknowledged that rights are endowed by our Creator. Absent a Creator, there are no inalienable rights. In the Second Amendment, we said the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. In our day, if private citizens hadn't owned guns there would have been no Lexington and Concord. Why would we bother guaranteeing a collective right to arm state militias? The rights enumerated in the first 10 amendments are restraints on government, not grants of power to it. If you ever wake up to what's going on, your leaders will have cause to fear an armed citizenry. We viewed elective office as a sacrifice. For your politicians, it's an opportunityr. We rid America of a monarchy. You've established an elected aristocracy. We were farmers, merchants and professionals who resumed our careers after a brief term of service and never lost touch with our constituents.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 12:21:11 PM EDT
(continued) You are governed by an elite so different from you as to almost constitute a separate species. Your elected rulers hold office for 20 or 30 years, becoming increasingly detached from their roots, while rewarding themselves lavish emoluments and pensions. We revolted over a modest tax on tea. Your tax burden is staggering. Despite the enormous expenditures of your prodigal politicians, even they can't spend it all. And still, many resist returning the federal surplus to its rightful owners. We rejected taxation without representation. You condone your own serfdom. In the Declaration, we complained that King George III had "sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance." You complacently tolerate a bureaucracy that resembles all Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Eat out their substance? Today, almost one in 13 Americans works for a branch of government. Harass our people? There are bureaucrats to tell you how to run your business, build on your property and raise your children. Government makes decisions for you regarding your health, safety and welfare. We envisioned the judiciary as a coequal branch of government that interprets laws based on the clear meaning of language. Your courts have become a law unto themselves -- raising taxes, deciding elections, ordering private relationships and substituting their will for that of legislators. We warned you against entangling alliances. You are eager to form defensive pacts with postage-stamp countries whose security couldn't conceivably be related to your own. This will only serve to drag you into their petty quarrels, sapping your strength. We recognized that government and society must rest on divine wisdom. George Washington observed, "Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." You cultivate national immorality, in the apparent belief that abortion, adolescent access to pornography, cohabitation, public distribution of prophylactics and compulsory acceptance of perversion will somehow lead to a society whose citizens have the self-discipline to sacrifice for the common good. Benjamin Franklin said we gave you [B]a republic "if you can keep it."[/B] From our vantage point, it does not look promising. Were we alive today, we'd raise another rebellion. ©2001 Creators Syndicate, Inc. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/donfeder/df20010704.shtml
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 12:28:17 PM EDT
That was a good read. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 12:36:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 1:06:37 PM EDT
Hog wash!! A bunch of slave owning, rich, old white men who are insensitive to the needs of the everyday people write a document for their own kind.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 2:57:52 PM EDT
Lyndon LaRouche for president....is that guy still alive?...really, i`d like to see how accurate my rifles would be on the moon....[dracula]
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 3:10:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mtnpatriot: Hog wash!! A bunch of slave owning, rich, old white men who are insensitive to the needs of the everyday people write a document for their own kind.
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Surely you jest!?!
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 3:26:22 PM EDT
You cultivate national immorality, in the apparent belief that abortion, adolescent access to pornography, cohabitation, public distribution of prophylactics and compulsory acceptance of perversion will somehow lead to a society whose citizens have the self-discipline to sacrifice for the common good.
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While I agree with most of what is said in this piece, this part is BS. The government is not going around pleading with women to have abortions, or begging librarians to show porn to adolescents. There are people fighting for people to be FREE to have an abortion if they want one, or to be able to publish porn if they want to, but they are FREE people and not officially sanctioned. The authors of this essay just want to push their conservative religious agenda without regard for the meaning of the word FREEDOM.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 3:40:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 3:47:58 PM EDT
Wakebrdr~ You have indeed proven a point! However the "You" in "You cultivate national immorality, in the apparent belief that abortion, adolescent..." refers to all of us in society; including you, at our most unfortunate expense. That is if indeed you believe the government is made "of the people, by the people and for the people". We are the ones who voted them into office and believe they reflect our intentions to rule. That is what voting is for. Unfortunately, we have people like you at the poles assuming what is best for everyone! So the point "you" have proven is that "you" are indeed whom this article is referring to! Thank you for your point...always willing to let a jack @$$ have his look in the mirror now and again! Mae PS-Would like to know if you have any personal first hand experience with Planned Parenthood! (A government aided facility)I have been there with a friend, and all they did was tell her to have one! Yes they do shove it down our throats! Imbrog|io--I salute you! And wish you a wonderful Holiday! Thank you for the thread!
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:26:37 PM EDT
beekeeper, Your interpretation could be subject to debate. You edited the original quote:
You cultivate national immorality, in the apparent belief that abortion, adolescent access to pornography, cohabitation, public distribution of prophylactics and compulsory acceptance of perversion will somehow lead to a society whose citizens have the self-discipline to sacrifice for the common good.
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to say:
You cultivate national immorality, in the apparent belief that . . . compulsory acceptance of perversion will somehow lead to a society whose citizens have the self-discipline to sacrifice for the common good.
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and conclude that:
....when people give in to every selfish desire, with no accountability, they become selfish, self-centered slobs who have no sense of right and wrong, thus no commitment to doing what is right....
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I take issue with the promotion of a religious agenda (as evidenced by the statement, "Absent a Creator, there are no inalienable rights.") and the judgement that "perversion" is an evil force. As an athiest libertarian, perverts who keep to themselves aren't my biggest concern--it's those who want to squash freedom to publish this or that in the name of "right" that concern me more. The discussion of "moral absolutes" has always puzzled me. What does this mean? My policy has always been "Do unto others as you would have done unto you..." (yes, maybe a bit ironic for an athiest to use that rule, but I do respect the wisdom of those 10 commandments). Is this not an absolute? Is this not a good moral belief? I agree with you that today's society would be hesitant to make the sacrifices made to win WWII. But this is a different context. We are all fat, lazy, and happy. No great threat to our way of life exists currently--not so in the 30s and 40s. If today, our economy went in the crapper, and an outside military threat were bearing down upon us, I do not doubt the spirit of the people of this country to come together as they did for WWII (admittedly, with caution). So I don't see how you factor in the use of a moral compass. From my perspective, it's simple cause and effect: outside military force equals a common need to fight that force.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:49:25 PM EDT
As if I would have skipped reading Feder in the newspaper.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:53:39 PM EDT
Don't bother to debate if you disagree. Like the original post stated,the conclusion is americas is basiclly lost. We were given a country to uphold and cherish and the generations before us didn't, so they left us with this. Good luck guys. I am basiclly a young guy and most on this board is also. This is the inheritance the past generations left us. They didn't just leave us a small bag of crap they left us a mountain of sh t. There is nothing we can do. My advice is trust in Jesus and look towards his promises and his inheritance. He wont do you wrong like the past generations. In fact if you read the bible it says christians are not citizens of this world. My reward is when I go home with Jesus. You wont be disappointed in him. He doesn't go back on his word,if he gives you something he doesn't take it away. What a great god he is. Trust in Jesus guys.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:19:41 PM EDT
Our founding fathers did it right. They only permitted White, property holding males to vote. Where this country went wrong is letting everybody else vote. The first thing women did when we let them vote was start Prohibition. When they let non-property owners vote, social welfare started. (Actually this is all in jest, but something to consider when others make deities out of our Founding Fathers, the same ones who said black slaves were only fractional whites.)
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:19:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:26:05 PM EDT
but something to consider when others make deities out of our Founding Fathers
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Most people don't even know the Bill of Rights was never meant to apply to the states, and that the rights within didn't even apply to state action until very recently (some still don't). Many lament and rant about the loss of rights they never had, or invent novel new "rights" wholly uncontemplated in the constitution (and then rant about losing those)....
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 7:33:09 PM EDT
Post from Lougotzz -
We were given a country to uphold and cherish and the generations before us didn't, so they left us with this....This is the inheritance the past generations left us.
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As a member of a 'past generation' I'll be the first to admit that this country took a few wrong turn when it (1) fought a bloody civil war that should and could have been resolved in the Courts, (2) instituted an income tax, with the tacit popular understanding that 'only the wealthy' would be taxed on their income, not we regular folks, and (3) determined that a 'New Deal' in which the government began the business of picking winners and losers in life's lottery, was the correct economic policy to pursue. Every further problem that we encounter stems from the bad choices that were made in those instances. The good news is that the Republic is not yet lost, that we can turn the tide, that some of our most cherished liberties can be restored or put beyond the reach of federal bureaucrats, and that all this can be accomplished without resorting to a second Civil War. The even better news is, as you have confessed, that belief in Christ is, was, and always will be the ultimate salvation of our Country, and of us, as well. So continue to fight the Good Fight, if we lose in this World, we will win in the next World, anyway. [red]'For what is a man profited, if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?'[/red] Eric The(Believing)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 7:40:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By maewestcoast: Wakebrdr~ You have indeed proven a point! However the "You" in "You cultivate national immorality, in the apparent belief that abortion, adolescent..." refers to all of us in society; including you, at our most unfortunate expense. That is if indeed you believe the government is made "of the people, by the people and for the people". We are the ones who voted them into office and believe they reflect our intentions to rule. That is what voting is for. Unfortunately, we have people like you at the poles assuming what is best for everyone! So the point "you" have proven is that "you" are indeed whom this article is referring to! Thank you for your point...always willing to let a jack @$$ have his look in the mirror now and again! Mae PS-Would like to know if you have any personal first hand experience with Planned Parenthood! (A government aided facility)I have been there with a friend, and all they did was tell her to have one! Yes they do shove it down our throats! Imbrog|io--I salute you! And wish you a wonderful Holiday! Thank you for the thread!
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Now there is a woman I could learn to like [:)] Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 7:41:24 PM EDT
Everybody is right.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 8:11:00 PM EDT
Thanks Aviator .... I'm blushing! Mae
Link Posted: 7/5/2001 3:10:15 PM EDT
maewestcoast, I don't buy any of that crap that we "believe they reflect our intentions to rule." The only thing they honor anymore is power.
posted by maewestcoast: Unfortunately, we have people like you at the poles assuming what is best for everyone!
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And you vote assuming what is worst for everyone? Obviously, something's got your panties in a wad, and I'm betting it's the abortion issue. Well, I have had experience there. And at no time was it pushed. Bringing a kid into a world when you cannot provide a proper home is far more criminal than vacuuming out a glob of organic goo that is at least 14 years away from being another message-board cowgirl dying to make a point.
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