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2/23/2017 5:55:53 PM
Posted: 6/30/2001 6:27:20 AM EST
I am curious as to what works best to disable someone during an attach/confrontation. Would it be the pepper spray......and if so what brand/size type is most effective? Would it be a baton or stun baton and again if so what brand/size etc. Would it be a stun gun? Is 500,000 powerful enough? What brand works best. Would it be an Air Taser gun? Again specifics. These are much more expensive and I am not sure one of these are in my budget. I'm considering the purchase of one or several of these items for self defense in a situation where taking the others life is not necessary but stopping them is. I have always considered shooting someone as the last resort, and depending on the situation, one of these tools may be a better choice for me to use. Thanks for you input. Bow
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 6:57:55 AM EST
I carry a 3 foot piece of hickory fork handle, but I've never had to pull it on anyone.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:07:18 AM EST
Martial arts training would be highly effective. I prefer the Aikido style. Any kind of blunt weapon can be used effectively with a little practice. I keep a three foot piece of hardwood shovel handle and a 6-cell Mag Lite in my pickup just for this purpose Whatever weapon you choose, lethal or "non-lethal", remember you have to have it close at hand whenever this situation arises. That is why I highly recommend martial arts training as there could be times and places where carrying any sort of weapon could be prohibited or inconvenient. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:24:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:27:27 AM EST
A kick in the nuts.....
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:29:05 AM EST
Attitude, awareness of your surroundings, posture, authoritative voice, self-confidence. In short: Your brain.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:39:50 AM EST
Nike's are the best defense. If you can escape by being fleet of foot, do so. After many years in the martial arts, I have come to the conclusion that it is best to avoid such confrontations if at all possible. If a situation starts to develop, I make myself scarce well before anything goes down. Run Forrest, Run.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 10:28:17 AM EST
I'm surprised that Imbroglio hasn't mentioned a cell phone with auto-dial. [:)] Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 12:01:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 12:24:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/30/2001 12:22:03 PM EST by SGB]
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 12:49:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By CAR15M4: I'm surprised that Imbroglio hasn't mentioned a cell phone with auto-dial. [:)] Jay Arizona
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Damnit!
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 1:00:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/30/2001 1:01:51 PM EST by McUZI]
Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot: I have a little device made a long time ago. it has quite an intimidation factor because no one knows what it is. It shoots bean bags using compressed air cylinders like the ones in CO2 pellet guns. The cartridge that holds the bean bag and co2 looks kinda like some sort of mortar round. Remember one time taking a hike in New Orleans with the Scout Troop, my dad was carrying it. Had to Rough looking thugs kinda following use. when they started to approach, my dad pulled a cartidge out and dropped it in the weapon. Boy there eyes got BIG and the turned and left use alone. Have you thought about getting a 12 gauge and loading the 1st 2 or 3 rnds with bean bags or rubber no lethel projectile, then loading OO buck after that incase the none lethel does not work.
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[b]CHECK[/b] your e-mail.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 1:17:00 PM EST
Remember that anything you use on a human for self defense (including the "kick in the nuts") can cause death. As a Police Officer I get to carry & use a assortment of items on "live" subjects that I need to really try to keep "live" if possible. I have used pepper spray dozens of times & it is real good But NOT the "end all" , any "hand to hand" tactics are better than nothing but you can get hurt really quick , running shoes are great but not always a option , cell phones out , by the time we get there someone is laying in a puddle , nix the knife ,risk to high for death , tasers & stun guns are to "maybe" , so what is my vote for? A 8 oz lead flat slap !! Not legal in everywhere so check , I have seen them use many times & EVERY time they worked !! Never jam , fail to open or lock , no delay for effect like sprays , I carry one as my "last ditch , on the ground , getting my ass kicked" backup. Understand that a slap CAN cause death if misused , and if you strike with the thin edge WILL make a nasty cut , but make NO MISTAKE about it , when the fight gets close and you have no choice , a slap to the head will spell "LIGHTS OUT" for even the toughest , drug crazied nut you can find , I have seen it , thats why I am sold. Just my 2cents worth & GOOD LUCK.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:45:13 PM EST
From my own personal experience I would have to say 21 inch biceps and a 55 inch chest (body builder). Works everytime for me. For some reason most thugs prefer to mess with someone who is not likely to give them a good ole fashioned butt whuppin'. It's a real bear finding clothes to fit though. One of my favorite stories of getting out of a serious confrontation is found in the Bible. David (before he became king of Israel) hid in the land of his enemies - the Philistines. They wanted to kill him but he acted insane and slobbered all over himself so they were afraid of him and left him well enough alone. Insanity is still a great defense. Just ask anyone who has been in prison. It's the real nut cases that everyone's afraid of.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 8:28:14 PM EST
Why non-lethal? If a situation calls for defence use the best defence possible. Stun gus are crap. In most cases it might knock them down but it doesnt keep them there. Batons are usually clasified as concealed weapons so you might as well be carring a pistol. Tasers are a little better because you can get a little distance between you and the attacker. A guy on the TV show "jackass" on MTV had all of these devices used on him. The pepper spray worked best. Get the 10% pepper spray not the 5% stuff. I carry a good Pocket Knife. I am trained in JuJitsu, Kempo, boxing and knife fighting. I always have a gun in my car (carried legally of course). Since your from OH too I know your not allowed to carry a concealed weapon. (sucks dont it) Of the things you listed go with the 10% pepper spray with an ultraviolet dye. Hit with the spray and run the other way. The dye will allow positve identification by the police even if he was wearing a mask. BTW its usually harder to explain the 3 foot hickory stick to a cop who pulls you over, than the UNLOADED gun in the backseat that you "just took to the range the other day". IF YOUR LIFE IS AT RISK YOU SHOULDN'T BE WORRIED ABOUT THEM, THEY AREN'T WORRIED ABOUT YOU.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 8:30:44 PM EST
In this state you'll get in big trouble if you carry a club, "billy," sap, bat, PR-24, etc., so you have to pick something whose primary purpose is (or at least seems to be) something else. Last year one of my neighbors had a friend visiting who just happens to be a parolee with a history of substance abuse and violence. Well, he loaded and got mean. After creating quite a ruckus at the neighbor's, he saw me on my front porch, ran over, and started taking swings at me and bodyslamming me against the house. I drew back and swung my 3D-cell Maglite and connected with the side of his head. His lights went out and he dropped like a sack of potatoes. I called 911 and by the time the cops showed up over half an hour later he had woken up and was gone, leaving a lot of blood behind. The cops, of course, were lazy fucks and didn't do dick. But that's another thread. This guy was drunk, hopped-up on speed, and pissed. But one shot with a Maglite took all the fight right out of him. And no one will question why you're carrying around a flashlight at night.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 9:06:54 PM EST
The business end of a 12 gage/large bore handgun will persway most jerkoffs to leave immediately.[shotgun]I load up 44 shotshells with rocksalt for the 4 legged varmints that get into my garbage cans. Never had the same one come back.[;)]Would probably work pretty well for the 2 legged varity. If not the remaining 5 240gr XTP's would have the last say in the matter. Just another usefull feature of the wheelgun.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 9:15:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By California Kid: Attitude, awareness of your surroundings, posture, authoritative voice, self-confidence. In short: Your brain.
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Hehehe, yeah. And if/when that doesn't seem to do the trick, a few years of Jiujitsu and Jun Fan under your belt don't hurt none either....tends to hurt the other guy, but I'm pretty partial to that situation I suppose. Just make sure you don't get into a situation that you KNOW you shouldn't be in. This included getting yourself into a brawl with someone(s) who will break you down, and fronting yourself too much where you can unknowingly cripple the guy...the last one is actually a more fearful situation, trust me. Use brains when you must, use fists and feet when option #1 fails on you. [img]www.auburn.edu/~littlcb/E-vil2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 9:57:33 PM EST
the butt of your rifle, just club em to death like a baby seal[:P]
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 10:01:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/30/2001 10:25:28 PM EST by SGB]
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 10:09:43 PM EST
Q-ball, fastball in the face in the dark, would'nt want to recieve one. This is what I joke about to friends on this subject.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 5:17:29 AM EST
Thanks for the information regarding the 10% pepper spray. Maybe I will add to that "my kids baseball bat" that got left in the car by accident. Bow
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 5:47:11 AM EST
The "California Kid" has got it just right. Also consider what would discourage you from attacking. That action/non-action/implement will probably also work on the other person. I will offer this suggestion - put a laser on your carry-gun (If you are so licensed.) A red-dot on my chest would sure stop me and if the other person should continue a "life threatening" posture you're properly positioned to use what must be the absolute last option.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 6:06:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2001 6:05:23 AM EST by redray]
Originally Posted By Tiger Stripe: From my own personal experience I would have to say 21 inch biceps and a 55 inch chest (body builder). Works everytime for me. For some reason most thugs prefer to mess with someone who is not likely to give them a good ole fashioned butt whuppin'. It's a real bear finding clothes to fit though. One of my favorite stories of getting out of a serious confrontation is found in the Bible. David (before he became king of Israel) hid in the land of his enemies - the Philistines. They wanted to kill him but he acted insane and slobbered all over himself so they were afraid of him and left him well enough alone. Insanity is still a great defense. Just ask anyone who has been in prison. It's the real nut cases that everyone's afraid of.
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a few years back, i had the (un)fortunate experience of an encounter with someone with your description of biceps and chest. i am 5 ft 7, 180 lbs (not fat), 39 years old, retired Navy. i wont say that im a slouch at fighting, neither am i Bruce Lee. but i found that this muscular dude (this one specifically) was looking at at me, a much smaller guy, and thinking that i was easy prey. overconfidence on his part. after the fight, i realized that people with big builds, besides being too confident, were also slow moving. so....lesson learned on both sides: never underestimate, never assume, learn self-defense. a gun isnt always necessary sometimes.....
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 6:35:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2001 6:39:06 AM EST by Beagles747]
Originally Posted By WaterDog: I am curious as to what works best to disable someone during an attach/confrontation. Would it be the pepper spray......and if so what brand/size type is most effective?
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Pepper spray is effective as already mentioned. There are a few brands out there I believe "Mace" is one of the top brands.
Would it be a baton or stun baton and again if so what brand/size etc.
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I don't think a baton would be very practical, do you plan on carrying it or leaving it in the car?
Would it be a stun gun? Is 500,000 powerful enough? What brand works best.
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In my personal experience stun guns are not effective enough. We had a conversation going about this one day at work (few years ago) and one of the guys agreed to be a test subject. He was a big guy (6'2" 240lbs.)The scenario was he would try and choke me with is hands around my neck while I got out my stun gun and zapped him. Right off the bat I'll tell you if he wasn't a coworker I would have been killed. I held the stun gun on him for 5 to 8 seconds and all it did was piss him off and make him choke me harder. So I asked him if I could try hitting him in the groin. We did the same thing again and I held it on his groin, and again it really pissed him off and he said it made him want to kill me. LOL! So I literal junked the one I had. Also, I'm not positive but I believe it was a 150,000 volt gun. I had zapped my self with it and had a friend zap me and he couldn't take me to the ground with it. They do make more powerful ones these days but IMHO I wouldn't rely on one.
Would it be an Air Taser gun? Again specifics. These are much more expensive and I am not sure one of these are in my budget.
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I have seen these demonstrated and are believed to be very effective. The down side is you only get one shot so you better make it count. Because if you miss or both darts don't deploy that guy will get to you before you can reload.
I'm considering the purchase of one or several of these items for self defense in a situation where taking the others life is not necessary but stopping them is. I have always considered shooting someone as the last resort, and depending on the situation, one of these tools may be a better choice for me to use.
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IMHO-If someone is pulling a knife, gun, crowbar, bat, axe or any other weapon that he could kill me with. He gets the bullet. If the person has no weapon but threatens my life in a way that I'm in fear of my life he might get the bullet anyway. It depends greatly on the situation. He might not have a visible weapon, but might state that he does or he intends to kill you. If it's an argument gone wrong and turns into a scrap take your licks or give them and walk away. If the guy picks up an object to crush your skull in with it's time to pull the gun out. In most all situations a level head and a concealed handgun is going to be your best defense. I wouldn't personally rely on anything else. My wife carries mace only because she's not comfortable carrying a firearm. You just have to use your head and remember you don't pull that gun out unless you are in genuine fear of losing your life. [red]Evil-Beagles[/red]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 6:44:04 AM EST
Your best bet is a 195lb dog of just about any breed. A dog that big is intimidating, or if you can find a gorilla they are tough enough to scare off an assailant, just hard to sneak one outta the zoo! [):)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 7:00:38 AM EST
Be careful with pepper spray. My wife carried a can of the stuff in her purse a couple years. One day I pulled out to test it, didn't even come out of the can! Please make sure you test / replace it from time to time. Personally I don't trust the stuff.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 7:22:48 AM EST
mace in the foam version puts a stopping and also stuns confuses person hit them square in the face hit eyes nose mouth they panick can't breath burn etc.,,,tried it when jumped unbelieveable,,have used traditional mace at work this blows it away,,,
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 7:52:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By ECS: Be careful with pepper spray. My wife carried a can of the stuff in her purse a couple years. One day I pulled out to test it, didn't even come out of the can! Please make sure you test / replace it from time to time. Personally I don't trust the stuff.
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Don't take this as a flame but testing and or replacement should be common sense... If you look on any mace container it will have an expiration date as well as a volume level indicator. Most small personal mace containers are only good for about 5 one-second bursts and effective up to about 12 feet. After testing it when you buy it I would recommend changing it out yearly. $10 a year is a small investment to get you out of a jam. (if you choose to use it) [red]Evil-Beagles[/red]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 11:55:05 PM EST
The best non-lethal self-defense device in the world is a .45 with 230hp. It's non-lethal because YOU won't get killed because you pulled a stupid and sprayed a thug in the eye and pissed him off. Don't coddle criminals. If they are willing to attack you for your money, shoot them!!!
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