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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 3/4/2005 11:09:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2005 11:10:12 AM EDT by IAMLEGEND]
I hope this isn't a dupe.

What is this all about?

link

ETA:
ROME (Reuters) - U.S. forces fired at a car carrying Italian reporter Giuliana Sgrena shortly after her liberation, killing an Italian secret service agent and lightly wounding the journalist, her newspaper said on Friday.
Gabriele Polo, the editor of Il Manifesto newspaper, said Sgrena's car was fired on as it made its way to Baghdad airport.

"This news which should have be a moment of celebration, has been ruined by this fire fight," Polo told Sky Italia television.

"An Italian agent has been killed by an American bullet. A tragic demonstration which we never wanted that everything that's happening in Iraq is completely senseless and mad," he added, struggling to fight back his tears.

The Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi sent his condolences to the family of the dead agent, who was named by Il Manifesto's Polo as Nicola Calipari.

Sgrena was seized in the Iraqi capital on Feb. 4 as she conducted interviews on the street near Baghdad University.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:13:17 AM EDT
I sense a bunch of shit. I highly doubt she was ever a prisoner. And I highly doubt they were just randomly fired on. If anything, she is probably an enemy sympathizer or worse.

There's just something VERY wrong with this picture.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:13:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
I sense a bunch of shit. I highly doubt she was ever a prisoner. And I highly doubt they were just randomly fired on. If anything, she is probably an enemy sympathizer or worse.

There's just something VERY wrong with this picture.



No doubt. It just sounds weird and fishy.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:13:58 AM EDT
If this is true, it sucks it was the agent that was killed and not the reporter. According to news reports, the newspaper she writes for is Communist.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:16:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

"An Italian agent has been killed by an American bullet. A tragic demonstration which we never wanted that everything that's happening in Iraq is completely senseless and mad."



Compare this to an e-mail I received from...well, let's just say he's the real dseal. (IM if you want to know more.)



...and I also read an assessment that said the Iraqi forces working with the Marines in Fallujah fought much better during the second offensive, and there were few (or no) instances of desertions under fire or cowardice, which was definitely not the case in the first offensive.
....
Regardless of what the press says, the majority of Iraqi civilians are glad we're here and ALL of the Iraqi police, security forces and military are glad we're here! They know that the couldn't afford (nor do they have the organizational struture) to supply their forces with the right equipment, so they are using our resources (weapons, transportation, equipment and training) to get them started.



There. Senselessness and madness.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:17:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC_00_05:
If this is true, it sucks it was the agent that was killed and not the reporter. According to news reports, the newspaper she writes for is Communist.



Exactly. Fuck her.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:19:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brisk322:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

"An Italian agent has been killed by an American bullet. A tragic demonstration which we never wanted that everything that's happening in Iraq is completely senseless and mad."



Compare this to an e-mail I received from...well, let's just say he's the real dseal. (IM if you want to know more.)



...and I also read an assessment that said the Iraqi forces working with the Marines in Fallujah fought much better during the second offensive, and there were few (or no) instances of desertions under fire or cowardice, which was definitely not the case in the first offensive.
....
Regardless of what the press says, the majority of Iraqi civilians are glad we're here and ALL of the Iraqi police, security forces and military are glad we're here! They know that the couldn't afford (nor do they have the organizational struture) to supply their forces with the right equipment, so they are using our resources (weapons, transportation, equipment and training) to get them started.



There. Senselessness and madness.



I believe the e-mail you received is more accurate.

But WTF is this firefight all about? And a dead Italian agent? Something went wrong.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:27:51 AM EDT
I dont know why we let the guidos over there. They were such a big help in Somalia
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:28:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2005 11:30:24 AM EDT by IAMLEGEND]
More


Charging_Handle, you must have been on to something:

"The Jawa Report has speculated in the past the Sgrena was either the victim of her own close ties with terrorist forces, or had staged her own abduction to convince the Italian people of their folly for supporting the US led occupation."
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:32:56 AM EDT
I'm guessing that the driver of the vehicle she was in failed to stop when directed to do so.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:35:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:41:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I'm guessing that the driver of the vehicle she was in failed to stop when directed to do so.



Yes. This happened at a road block. This means they had to do something that provoked a response.

BTW, she is now in a coalition hospital being treated for her wounds. Since she sides with the terrorists clearly, they should take her back to them and leave her for them to treat.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:42:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:44:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Gabriele Polo, the editor of Il Manifesto newspaper, said Sgrena's car was fired on as it made its way to Baghdad airport.

1. This is the Italian Communist newspaper.
2. I've driven that road to BIAP many times and everyone knows that Big Army does not tolerate being ridden up on suddenly or at a high rate of speed. Joe wants to go home at the end of his tour and if he has to fire up an occasional noncombatant who is acting like an asshole in violation of clear instructions, so be it.
3. Shit happens. Slow down, wear your body armor and K-pot and don't scare Joe.



Seems like some reasonable recommendations, all things considered.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:45:17 AM EDT
Its unfortunate that the agent died, instead of the target.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:46:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
Its unfortunate that the agent died, instead of the target.



The one link says he dove over her to protect her...so is that a joke or not really...not really I guess.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:52:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:58:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Rome summons US ambassador to explain WTF



Easy answer. Stop means Halto
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:02:42 PM EDT
Tagged to see where this leads.


Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:05:52 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:06:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:07:54 PM EDT
more info


"In Baghdad, a U.S. military spokesman said the car was fired upon shortly before 9 p.m. local time as it was "approaching a coalition checkpoint at a high rate of speed." "
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:13:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:18:55 PM EDT
She went to Iraq on her own free will, knowing it was a war zone. It sucks, but War Happens.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:20:09 PM EDT

What is this all about?


Cliff's notes version:

1) Dumbass drives toward a US Army checkpoint at night at a high rate of speed in a country where cars traveling at high rates of speed toward checkpoints are likely to be car bombs.

2) US Army personnel prove Darwin correct.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:20:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Rome summons US ambassador to explain WTF



Creative news reporting. Reality is that the Italian PM phoned up the US Embassy and said "Ambassador, do you know what went wrong?"
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:21:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zardoz:

What is this all about?


Cliff's notes version:

1) Dumbass drives toward a US Army checkpoint at night at a high rate of speed in a country where cars traveling at high rates of speed toward checkpoints are likely to be car bombs.

2) US Army personnel prove Darwin correct.



Yes, it's all becoming clear as the tidbits seep out. Can you imagine the agent? "Slow down...hey, SLOW DOWN. SLOW THE FUCKING CAR DOWN NOW" too late. The agent would surely know better...right?
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:22:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
more info


"In Baghdad, a U.S. military spokesman said the car was fired upon shortly before 9 p.m. local time as it was "approaching a coalition checkpoint at a high rate of speed." "



If that's the case then it seems any soldier would deem that a hostile action. Failure to do anything could have been a carbomb killing them all. They did what they thought they had to do. The blame rests with the driver who behaved like a dumbass.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:23:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
more info


"In Baghdad, a U.S. military spokesman said the car was fired upon shortly before 9 p.m. local time as it was "approaching a coalition checkpoint at a high rate of speed." "



If that's the case then it seems any soldier would deem that a hostile action. Failure to do anything could have been a carbomb killing them all. They did what they thought they had to do. The blame rests with the driver who behaved like a dumbass.



Agreed.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 12:26:00 PM EDT
I guess the Italian Secret Service is different that ours, otherwise why was he there and running a US checkpoint?
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 1:16:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 2:35:09 PM EDT
Technically, it's still fratricide, or "friendly fire". No fault of the checkpoint, but still fratricide. It would seem that the most basic Intel 101 lessons on egress were ignored. The Italian agent should have coordinated with the American intelligence to arange a time/place for the egress. Same process as if a recon patrol is entering friendly lines, or flying back from enemy territory. You coordinate it before you just walk up to the checkpoint and beg to get shot.

The Italians might not have made prior coordination, or her release might have been a suprise. They might have thought they weren't so close to getting her back, so they didn't figure on needing to get out in a hurry. Still, the agent had to have figured on getting back to his own area, and should just follow what he already had in place for himself.

The Italians may have made prior coordination, and someone in the American food chain of intel dropped the ball. It's happended before, where Iraqi Nationals working with SF have been shot up at checkpoints because someone didn't get the word to Joe Snuffy that friendlies were coming.

The checkpoint folks are at no way at fault here, but someone is. Yeah, it's a dumass move to haul-ass towards an American checkpoint, but they were probably interested in getting the hell out of there, and the Iraqi driver probably more so. If they thought there was an American Intel officer whom they had already coordinated with there waiting on them, then they might not have been too concerned with their speed. They might not have know that the ball had been dropped until the shots started coming. They might have made no coordination and were just looking for the nearest friendly forces.

Anyway you cut it though, baisc coordination wasn't followed through with and it resulted in casulties of friendly forces. We'll never find out the truth of why.

Ross
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