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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/26/2001 4:24:43 AM EDT
[url]http://www.charlotte.com/observer/natwor/docs/pvalone0623.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:38:21 AM EDT
OK. Where's the outrage?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:45:03 AM EDT
The NRA (read hunters & shooting sport enthusiasts) don't mind another law to keep the children safe.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:41:24 AM EDT
I have seen this before, the NRA could working to deflect/blunt/minimize the damage effects of a law. Once it is passed, the antis and news media will go on to something else until the next time. Sometimes you just can't block these laws that the press and anti-gunners are pressing for because the public sentiment is just too strong. Sometmes it is possible to minimize its effects.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 6:44:21 AM EDT
The NRA has a vested interest in protecting their greatest block of members, hunters and target shooters. We have to accept that as "assault weapon" owners, we are the bastard stepchildren of the gun owning community. We will be sacrificed for the safety of the others' good.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:37:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 8:36:58 AM EDT by Imbroglio]
Originally Posted By warlord: I have seen this before, the NRA could working to deflect/blunt/minimize the damage effects of a law. Once it is passed, the antis and news media will go on to something else until the next time. Sometimes you just can't block these laws that the press and anti-gunners are pressing for because the public sentiment is just too strong. Sometmes it is possible to minimize its effects.
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That is called "death by a thousand cuts".
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:01:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:14:04 AM EDT
So I, who target shoot with what the media calls assault rifles, am which category? Come on people, we gotta stop being fifty-eleven little sub-groups. If we voted as a block we could elect a piece of garlic toast president if we wanted to. No compromise. No division. You're for us or aginst us.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:04:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:08:49 AM EDT
You better watch out Sweep, if you keep it up, Imbrog|io might give you a stern warning! [:P]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:17:18 AM EDT
[puke]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:26:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 10:23:52 AM EDT by Sweep]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:26:43 AM EDT
I, like many other gun owners, fail to see how checking a persons background constitutes any infringement o the right to keep and bear arms. equally important, the NRA and gun owners cannot win a fight against this in the long run. We have already conceded the idea that new guns, bought from dealers, should not be given to anybody that has not had a background check. Extending that idea to private transfers makes sense.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:30:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:47:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Celt: If we voted as a block we could elect a piece of garlic toast president if we wanted to. No compromise. No division. You're for us or aginst us.
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We had a piece of garlic toast for eight years. And we almost had a meatball this time !
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:51:41 AM EDT
The NRA has evolved into a machine for raising money to perpetuate it's own existance. The 'watered-down law is better' attitude that the NRA espouses assures victory for the gun-ban crowd - it will just take longer to get there. Until ALL gun groups unite as ONE voice and become proactive by challenging and removing all restrictive gun laws, punishing anti-gun politicians at the polls, asserting the existance of Second Amendment rights and the meaning of 'infringe', and fighting to restore Second Amendment rights to the same sacred ground as First Amendment rights, then we in the gun community are destined to lose. I don't see this happening in my lifetime.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:53:19 AM EDT
Here in my area at the trade center that ussually hostes the gun shows, they dont let anybody selling guns get a table unless they have an FFL. I guess you need to get a backgound check. Six
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:54:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By darm441: I, like many other gun owners, fail to see how checking a persons background constitutes any infringement o the right to keep and bear arms.
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I, like many other global citizens, fail to see how checking a person's background before being allowed to worship an approved religion constitutes any infringement.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 10:59:11 AM EDT
AND I, like many other global citizens, fail to see how checking a person's background before they are allowed to exercise free speech constitutes any infringement.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 11:00:40 AM EDT
My NRA membership expires in July.I have been having alot of second thoughts about renewing my membership. I dont care for Project Exile and now reading about this crap in Noth Caroline just makes it alittle more difficult for me to send them my money. I believe that the NRA is playing the go along to get along game.If the NRA is the best we can do well then I think we are all screwed. It's also time for my GOA membership to be renewed.I will renew it.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 11:07:40 AM EDT
rebelyell, Hows about taking the money you were going to send to the NRA and sending it to GOA or keepandbeararms.com instead? Screw the NRA!!!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 11:16:24 AM EDT
mtnpatriot, Roger that. My thoughts exactly.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 11:26:41 AM EDT
The problem with background checks is that it consitutes getting 'approval' from the government to buy arms. We have to have our rights approved? If the purpose of the armed populace is truly to provide a check against an out of control government - then why does that same government get to approve who can own arms?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 11:38:27 AM EDT
I own a AR-15 mainly because a member of my family developed the .223 round and had a substantial input on the development of the AR-15 itself. We are both life members of the NRA, as everyone who owns any firearm for any reason should be, and we vote "pro-gun" every election as should all you. If you are a member of the NRA and do not like how it is representing you as a group or as individuals, then you should contact them and let them know you are dissatisfied and why, as you should with your Senators and Representatives before they vote on anti-gun legislation. If you just complain to one another about legislation or the way an organization is representing you, then nothing will change.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 11:42:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 12:46:06 PM EDT
when u comprimise we all lose thats why im not renewing my NRA member ship F*ck em ill support GOA or someone that isnt to busy trying to comprimise my rights away
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 12:55:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Big_Bear: Is anyone really surprised by this? If you are, you haven't been paying attention. The NRA has supported closing the so-called "gun show loophole" for years. That being the case, I scratch my head every time this is thwarted in Congress and yet the media calls it a "victory" for the NRA. I'm aggravated that the NRA supports this, especially considering that the Supreme Court just handed the NRA a loss regarding the FBI keeping records of gun buyers. Background checks on private sales is just another way for the feds to keep records on gun owners. If you think those records are going to be erased at any time, you're really naive.
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This is the primary purpose, at least at this time, it`s about the "records"....[smoke]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:59:41 PM EDT
Records?...They don't need no stinkin records!![):)] But they already have them.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:14:19 PM EDT
Hold on to your NRA memberships. Just like gus22 said, you need to give the NRA leadership an earfull if you don't agree with them. This organization is currently one of the largest and most powerful lobbying groups in the country. GOA, RKBA, etc. are not quite up to the NRA's size; not that they can't be in the future. Gripe here all you want, that's fine with me. When you start contacting the people you REALLY have a gripe with then you are doing something constructive. As much time as some people appear too spend here and on other forums, it should be no trouble for them to send e-mails EVERYDAY if necessary to our representatives in the pro-rights groups as well as the government.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:24:15 PM EDT
I would (contact everyday) but the last time I looked (granted it has been a while) I couldn't find any e-mail addresses for anyone at NRA.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:31:42 PM EDT
Don't worry, it's not over yet and North Carolina has GRNC--Grass Roots North Carolina and they (we) are on top of the situation.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:33:58 PM EDT
You might not agree %100 with what the NRA is saying but you know if it was not for them we would have lost a long time ago. By not sending your money into them you are doing what every gun hater wants you to do. If you want to join GOA then go join them but dont stop paying dues to the NRA to join GOA. The NRA is the biggest and best thing we have going for us. Lets keep it that way. You know sending a letter to the NRA expressing your opinion may help. If everybody who is upset about them did that instead just saying I am not paying my dues becuase...., we might see some changes. You have to let them hear your opinion. Six
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:38:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By darm441: We have already conceded the idea that new guns, bought from dealers, should not be given to anybody that has not had a background check. Extending that idea to private transfers makes sense.
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Apply that same logic to books, or knives or sticks or chains or glass bottles and we might be getting somewhere. Seriously though background checks can take a lot of time and money, if we could mark people now...how about making them wear a big yellow "G" on their shirt for "gunowner" and tattooing a barcode on their hand that would tell instantly that they were qualified to buy a gun. No...wait, criminals already know how to do their own tattoos it'd have to be a subdermal transmitter with some encoded data on it that would alert the dealers computer when they walked up they were "ok" and if they're going to have a subdermal transmitter anyway, might as well give it the ability to triangulate GPS signals and broadcast the location in case you get "lost". I'm all for that.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:52:48 PM EDT
Hey gus?! Name the name please!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:03:50 PM EDT
Yep, just what the antis want. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. I don't approve 100% of the NRA and not all of us on the board even agree about the posts here. But, there is something that ties us all together. Firearms & Freedom. If we want to ultimately win the war we need to stick together and become members of NRA, GOA, RKBA and whatever else we can. I'm amazed at those who "jump ship" when things don't go exactly the way they want. What babies. Maybe the gun movement is better off without them. NRA has become a political machine and in politics you have to compromise. For those that say "NO COMPROMISE" you are living a pipe dream. Life is full of compromise. We need to look at the big picture and prepare for the future. The best way to change the NRA is to let them know how we feel and vote in leadership that we feel represents us best. When GOA gets as big as the NRA, if they do, they will too become a political machine.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:40:27 PM EDT
Our government was founded on the principles that are in the Declaration of Independence. The main principle is that the purpose of government is to secure God given rights and that when any form of govenment becomes destructive to those rights, the people not only have the right but the duty to replace that govenment with one that will secure their rights and liberty. You can talk about the Bill of Rights and the 2nd Amendment all day long but the way I see it is that the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights no longer exist. Our govenment and politicians give us a little freedom and tell us we have rights, but the reality is that we have allowed our govenment to take away our rights. It is a false reality sort of like the Matrix or the Emperors new clothes. The NRA and Republicans like Bush say they support and will defend our Second Amendment Rights, but the truth is that right has been taken away and no longer exist. It is impossible to defend something that has been taken away. The only way to get it back is to reclaim it. Compromise will not work. Compromise will only lead to defeat. I know what some people will say, they will say something like "Well Bush does support the 2nd Amendment, after all he signed the concealed carry law in Texas". This is the false reality I am talking about. Alot of gun owners believe that it is just fine to have to go get a liscense to exercise their supposed 2nd Amendment Right. But in fact concealed carry laws are unconstitutional because they take a right and turn it into a priviledge. You should not have to have a liscense, register your gun, or have a background check to own, carry, or use a firearm. Until we wake up and insist that the organizations and political parties we support take back the Constitution and Bill of Rights and give us a true Republican form of government things will continue to get worse. I think that we all have to get involved individually. This is one thing I cannot preach about because I am not sure exactly what to do right now and it seems almost impossible overcome what we are up against. I guess the best place to start is to educate yourself and pass on what you learn to others. I pray that God would inspire us all to get active. I have many excellent books on the History of our Country, the 2nd Amendment, and the Constitution. I really need to stop being lazy and get with it!
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 5:32:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chairborne Ranger: Hey gus?! Name the name please!
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I guess the name you want to know is Gerald A. Gustafson now retired head of the Small Arms Division at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. He developed the .223 round and a rifle that originaly tested the .223 later called the "Gustafson 22".
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 9:18:29 PM EDT
Lots of angry talk and hyperbole, but the facts are pretty simple. A background check is not an infringement. IF one can legally own a gun, thye can pass the background check. WE do it for new gun purchases, and nobody's right to buy a new gun has been infringed because of a background check. Several states require all sales to go through authorized dealers, who do a background check. Nobody who gets the gun that way has had a right infringed. A background check cannot be an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms if you are keeping and bearing the arm after the background check is done.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 9:22:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 4:34:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gus22:
Originally Posted By Chairborne Ranger: Hey gus?! Name the name please!
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I guess the name you want to know is Gerald A. Gustafson now retired head of the Small Arms Division at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. He developed the .223 round and a rifle that originaly tested the .223 later called the "Gustafson 22".
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Didn't mean to drag up an old topic, but I just realized my brother the machinist is on the board!!! WAaassssuuupppp!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 5:00:37 PM EDT
There's a little saying in my business: "Persistence beats resistance." Get angry all you want. But don't use the energy it creates to complain to us. Put it to constructive use to make a change. The first letter may not work. The tenth letter may not work. Heck, even the hundredth letter may not work. But what if the hunded and first letter did and you quit at hundred. "Well, I've written a hundred letters and nothing's changed. I guess I'll quit." what does that get you. keep working towards the destination. you'll never reach it if you don't make the journey. now, i'm going to go practice what i preach. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 5:48:53 PM EDT
Lots of angry talk and hyperbole, but the facts are pretty simple. A background check is not an infringement. IF one can legally own a gun, thye can pass the background check. How about having your house searched while you are at work? If you are not doing anything wrong it should not bother you. The point is there is no power given to the federal government above the rights of the people. Especially those written simply in black and white. The second ammendment is one sentence folks. We are not talking about something requiring a PHD to decipher. I fear though we are sharp our society lacks the internal stuff required to steady our blessed form of government. I see us as a group (citizens) holding the guy wires of a spectacular tower (our rights and hence government) and most everybody has accepted that it will stand and have gone about their selfish pursuits.
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 6:00:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 6:11:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Planerench: Lots of angry talk and hyperbole, but the facts are pretty simple. A background check is not an infringement. IF one can legally own a gun, thye can pass the background check.
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Actually, it is an infringement. On my time and effort which swiftly translate into money. Regardless of how much you think we need the background check, it is still an infringement. The fact that I can legally posses one illustrates that and I am paying above the cost of the item in time because someone else broke a law. Not I. That is an infringement. Second. Grrrrrrrrr. When the HELL are most of us going to see that the NRA is using our rights to negotiate "acceptable" gun laws. I will not, I refuse, to give money to an organization to help whittle away my rights. I don't care what you may site them as having done to defend them. The fact is they continually allow and work for more legislation. When they can get laws repealed then they may deserve something from me, but not until then. Long term they have done far more damage than the left ever could. They have compromised, so they have made it clear they will and are not capable of taking a 'real' stand. My guess is that we would have been better off without them. Let the left flat out try to ban them, see how that goes over. They tried at Lexington and Concord…. I digress zaz
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 7:19:17 PM EDT
The NRA is our First Line of Defense. They are the primary reason that the U.S.A. has not gone the way of the U.K and Canada. They are the strongest lobby in the country! Let's work from within to make them a "No Compromise" group like GOA. I think you will find them receptive to their members. They are guarding the very concept of freedom, and have been very successful lately. By all means, join the more extreme groups, write letters, and get angry, but don't abandon our greatest ally. I can't believe that some of us would attack the NRA for being too soft, and then just sit around on there A$$es and wait for a SHTF scenario. I call that stupid, and lazy. We are in a cultural WAR here people. Unity is our best hope.
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