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Posted: 6/25/2001 7:41:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 7:48:59 PM EDT
A guy is pulled over for a traffic ticket. The cop harrasses him, searches his car, and finds a joint. He preceeds to lecture him, bitch at him, scream at him, and haul him to jail. I would hate them too. The risk they take is in exchange thier reward--Mans greatest conquest- Power.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 7:49:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2001 7:47:50 PM EDT by gus]
What he said! And him too! There are bad cops and bad citizens. You just gotta be careful these days.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 7:49:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 7:54:08 PM EDT
LEO's place themselves daily in harms way. No other job (except soldiers) intentional place themselves in harms way of a hostile individual. maybe all cops, except those working for the NYPD[}:D]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 7:59:50 PM EDT
Boland I am not anti leo, but I am against the slow erosion of our rights. leo's are citizens too so why dont they stand up to their superiors and refuse to participate in something they feel to be unjust ? Sure they need a paycheck, but whats more important ? There are alot of laws that police departments shove under the rug and dont really enforce too vigorously(jaywalking,littering,etc...) so why do they seem to like to enforce those laws that tend to "inconvenience" us ? What is the point of wasting tons of tax dollars on these roadblock stops ? what do they accomplish, whats the point ? try to understand, it's not the person behind the badge that pisses us off, but what that badge has come to stand for. As stated on another thread...what ever happened to "protect and serve"
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:04:19 PM EDT
I have been both a soldier and LEO and what you say has as much truth as B.S. But, lets agree to disagree and understand that some things LE does is down right wrong. So, if anyone would like to debate an issue on logical or ethical merit that we don't put emotional blinders on and just call it bashing.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:05:12 PM EDT
I don't hate them, I just think there should be some limitations on how much "public service" someone should be allowed to inflict on everyone else in their lifetime. That would apply to cops, firemen, town board members, judges, and all other politicians and local, state and federal employees all the way up the ladder. Thomas Jefferson went broke because he served as President of the United States. Back then, public service was a hardship, and surprise, there was far less corruption than there is now. Here in North Carolina, all we've heard about for six months is that there is a budget crunch and the legislature can't figure a way to pay for everything. Meanwhile, the Lt. Governor gives her staff huge pay raises in addition to their regular pay raises. What a big lie it all is. So, generally speaking, it isn't LEOs I hate--it's government. I get really pissed off by all the revenue generation activities as well as substance control or prohibition enforcement. I fully support legitimate law enforcement such as catching thieves, rapists, murderers, and so forth. I think we would all be immediately better off with anarchy, and by "anarchy," I do not mean "chaos," I mean absense of government, or far less government. The definition of anarchy is like the definition of "gay"--it has been forever ruined by a bunch of destructive leftists who really support communist-style big government.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:10:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:18:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boland: Butkus 51 - checkstops for things like drunkdriving etc. are IMHO a nec. evil - we will give up some convience, in order to attempt to ensure safe road travel.
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Well, no, they are most certainly NOT a NECESSARY evil...they are an evil, period. Maybe necessary to the perpetuation of a police state, not to the security of a FREE state.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:18:30 PM EDT
Boland, Ben Franklin said something like the following, "Those who would give up essential freedoms for temporary security deserve neither freedom, nor security". I agree with him 100%. See my post in the LEO dragging post. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:23:46 PM EDT
Sorry Boland, but it's not convenience we are giving up but our rights. I dont think catching a few drunks or whatever these stops are set up for are worth giving up our freedom for !! Think about it, DWI stops now, then seatbelts, then cellphones(insert anything a leo may find relevant) How far is too far Boland ?
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:25:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:25:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:26:32 PM EDT
To all LEOs. I view those "100 club" stickers on the back of vehicles as almost an out in out bribe. I think trash like that should be outlawed. By the way, most cops who have pulled me over only give me warnings.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:28:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2001 8:27:59 PM EDT by Aviator]
Originally Posted By Boland: Well what happens if your 7 year old daughter (or sister or cousin whatever) gets hit by one (DD). I had not intentioned this to end up into a flame war over the perceived lack of constitutionality of road site checkstops. Aviator - I think Franklin would have been out hanging convicted DD's but since that is not done...
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You know, while painful as it might be, I would still rather not loose the freedoms. That to me is the same as saying we should ban guns, because someone may kill one of my loved ones with one. Sorry guy, it does not fly. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:30:29 PM EDT
Nice try Boland, accidents can happen anywhere at anytime. still wondering how far is too far ? What price freedom ?
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:33:46 PM EDT
First let me preface this with the fact that I am pro-LEO. I work very closely with local law enforcement agencies in my role as a Firefighter/Paramedic, and fully support and respect them. But something has changed in the past few decades. When I was a kid ,about 19 y/o, I had a Dodge Ramcharger. I could seat 4-5 adults in it, so it was naturally our party wagon. One night we were going to a midnight movie. We arrived in the parking lot of the theater and popped the tops on a few cold ones before we went into the theater. The windows were fogged up so we didn't see the cops. They rapped on the window and asked us to step out of the car. I explained the situation and they asked to search the vehicle. I consented (I know better now). I didn't know that my dumbshit friend had put a bag of dope in my glove box. They found the dope and interrogated us, with emphasis on me as the driver. After putting the fear of God in me and my friends, they made us dump out the beer, and confiscated the dope. They then dumped the dope in the street and scattered it to the winds. We were then sent on our way with a warning. Trust me when I say that we all learned our lesson that night. The cops were firm and intimidating, but I think they realized we were just a bunch of dumbass kids that needed a lesson. That same scenario in this day would have resulted in arrest. When did law enforcement become so intolerant of mistakes? No slack seems to be the course taken now.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:38:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2001 8:35:22 PM EDT by Aviator]
Originally Posted By Boland: I had not intentioned this to end up into a flame war over the perceived lack of constitutionality of road site checkstops.
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But you see, that IS most of the problem. You say "perceived" and we think it IS unconstitutional. It IS certainly a grey area in the courts. A lot of the anger you see here directed towards LEOs are because of the fact that a lot of the people here feel their rights are being violated. This makes them VERY angry towards the person implementing that policy. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:40:36 PM EDT
I hang out with a lot of retired LEO's, from the Sherrif's Dept, a couple of former CHP officers, and a bunch of guys who used to work at various city PD's. I meet a lot of on duty cops and frequently have very pleasant conversations where we see eye to eye on many issues. However, ALL of the retired cops that I hang out with are seriously worried about where our country is headed with the erosion of our Constitutional Rights. They are all in agreement that it is getting out of hand. And the thing that we ALL dread is the day when we will have no choice but to get into a bullet swapping contest with a future crop of LEO's who are enforcing laws made by a Government that has turned CRIMINAL. Germany had a LOT of good cops during the Weimar Republic, but after Hitler got into power..those cops had no choice but to carry out their Government's wishes.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:41:43 PM EDT
Bottom line for me is, When will leo's or any public official or govt agent realize how passionate we are about our freedoms !! passionate enough to give our lives for. Without freedom, why live ? DAMNIT, why cant you get it !!! we dont hate you or wish you harm, but if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem !! DONT TREAD ON ME !!!!
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:47:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:48:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 8:52:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boland: I disagree that roadchecks are the same method as gun grabs
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Then you're wrong. Both are infringements of absolute rights recognized in the Bill of Rights. You can defend them till the cows come home, but you'll still be wrong. And I think most of the people here would agree with that.
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 9:00:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2001 9:12:59 PM EDT by Aviator]
Originally Posted By Boland: I disagree that roadchecks are the same method as gun grabs - I see them more as the safety/carry course some states mandate before you get a CCW - in that with rights come responsibilities (a fact society today seems to forget)
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They both remove freedoms in the hope that it will prevent something from happening. How are they not the same. Are you talking about "levels" of loss of freedom? I am sorry, but I do not wish my freedoms to be "chipped away" at. Soon I will have none left. If this attitude bothers you I am sorry. The comparison between safety checks and gun training does not fly either. That to me would be comparible to a drivers school. I have not called you names, made blanket statements about LEOs, but have tried to explain WHY you hear a lot of what you do. If this will "alienate" people from me I am sorry, but it is the way I belive. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 9:18:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 9:20:49 PM EDT
Heh, if it ever came to that day, they would have a hell of a time getting me there. Not gonna be like Jim and Marlin Perkins shooting a water buffalo with a dart and hauling his ass off in a helicopter. LOL. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 9:22:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 9:30:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By operator error: First let me preface this with the fact that I am pro-LEO. I work very closely with local law enforcement agencies in my role as a Firefighter/Paramedic, and fully support and respect them. But something has changed in the past few decades. When I was a kid ,about 19 y/o, I had a Dodge Ramcharger. I could seat 4-5 adults in it, so it was naturally our party wagon. One night we were going to a midnight movie. We arrived in the parking lot of the theater and popped the tops on a few cold ones before we went into the theater. The windows were fogged up so we didn't see the cops. They rapped on the window and asked us to step out of the car. I explained the situation and they asked to search the vehicle. I consented (I know better now). I didn't know that my dumbshit friend had put a bag of dope in my glove box. They found the dope and interrogated us, with emphasis on me as the driver. After putting the fear of God in me and my friends, they made us dump out the beer, and confiscated the dope. They then dumped the dope in the street and scattered it to the winds. We were then sent on our way with a warning. Trust me when I say that we all learned our lesson that night. The cops were firm and intimidating, but I think they realized we were just a bunch of dumbass kids that needed a lesson. That same scenario in this day would have resulted in arrest. When did law enforcement become so intolerant of mistakes? No slack seems to be the course taken now.
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i agree with you, but i wonder what political and adminstrative pressure's have been placed on the heads of cops to become more "anal". its not always the cops, dont forget lawyers too that would love to win a case against either the dept. or county/state to make money. pressure is what may be the root cause or perhaps i'm just naive waiting for M.E.D. check for airforce recruitment in lawenforcement lib [:)]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 9:37:02 PM EDT
Well, thats why I posted here on this thread so many times. You asked why the LEO bashing, and I was trying to explain. Yes, the people who do not make their arguments effectivly and just call names DO hurt the idea that we are trying to get across. I just guess they are very, very pissed about all of this. I personally understand that. It seems so impossible to stop a lot of these changes anymore that there is nothing left to do BUT get angry. Hope you just take all this into consideration the next time you see someone posting something like that. Stay safe. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 10:02:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2001 10:02:28 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Boland: I disagree that roadchecks are the same method as gun grabs
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Then you're wrong. Both are infringements of absolute rights recognized in the Bill of Rights. You can defend them till the cows come home, but you'll still be wrong. And I think most of the people here would agree with that.
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What did you expect? The guy is a kanadian and pro-UN. The Bill of Rights does not apply in that country nor is it recognized by the globalists.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 1:40:56 AM EDT
Everybody hates cops till they need one--but most of you would not come and work the job for nothing. At least--pray for us and stand up for us were possible..
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:45:13 AM EDT
LEO's have become an UNAUTHORIZED STANDING ARMY of a now TOTALITARIAN STATE now oppressing the American people! HOW? Through the use of sedition, conspiracy, seditious conspiracy, and the use of public funds to deny the power of the constitutions of the United States of America, the several states, and the laws thereof, which is defined as INSURRECTION, "IN RE CHARGE TO GRAND JURY", District Court, B.D. Illinois, July 30, 1894, 62 F. 828 Take time and study court rulings on the use of deadly force by individuals, even against LEO's when constitutional rights are violated. I must note however that the current form of justice in this once great nation is unlawfully protecting these killer forces of tyrants, in their wholesale slaughter of Americans! YES, THE CLOCK TICKS DOWN TO ACCOUNTABILITY! Visit [url]www.judicialaccountability.org
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 4:40:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Boland: Aviator - I agree with you in principle but not in the execution. You and several of the others make a valuable argument - however it is margunalized everytime someone opens his/her mouth to make inaccurate and offensive comments to the majority who are honest and hard working (well it is a gov't job so maybe not all that hard working[;)]) Now let me give you a brief scenario of what happend to a buddy of mine. 1)Doing radar and the sgt (supervisor) is there too 2)Observes a car speeding - 26 over limit (that KM/Hr - so about 17MPH. 3)Stops car 4)Lady Driver - says it is her birthday can she be let go(go figure) 5)Explains boss is watching - but offers a solution if lady faisl to produce DL she gets $ ticket not points and $. 6)Lady becomes indignant and produces DL 7)Lady is cited 8)Lady phones and places civilian complaint against officer guess what for - offering to give her a break. So the moral of this story is...
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The moral of the story is, stop trying to raise revenues by artificially low speed limits?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:23:36 AM EDT
I am not anti-police I am however anti-LEO. Read some ov my previous posts to see the differance.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 6:06:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By andreusan: LEO's have become an UNAUTHORIZED STANDING ARMY of a now TOTALITARIAN STATE now oppressing the American people!
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Please. You have no idea what a totalitarian state is. If that's what you want, I suggest you go spend some time in Africa or the Middle East (Afghanistan comes to mind). Then come back here and say that. It's time to stop the fantasy bs about how you have no rights and some imaginary black-helo invasion force is coming for your guns. I'm not in LE, but I realize that officers have a job to do. Sure there are some bad apples out there, but there are some bad apples everywhere (Even where YOU work. Does that mean [i]you're[/i] a bad apple too?) Using some broad bush to say LEO's are some instrument of evil is, well... simple. I have had the honor of working and training with LE professionals. News flash: they're Americans too. Just like you and me. I can tell you this, I'm greatful that there are people out there who will perform such a service and put up with such bs. I've noticed that most of the LEO-bashers here tend to be the same ones who want the military performing LE duties on the border. What kind of logic is that? Military enforces policy, LE enforces law. Rather than complain, go run for local office and change something. I guess some people just need something to complain about. Got your six, Boland, -SARguy
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:00:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Boland: Now let me give you a brief scenario of what happend to a buddy of mine. 1)Doing radar and the sgt (supervisor) is there too 2)Observes a car speeding - 26 over limit (that KM/Hr - so about 17MPH. 3)Stops car
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See, this is the problem - In the case of the speeder, an officer observed a crime and stopped that specific perpetrator. But with things like "Safety Roadblocks" or "Sobriety Checkpoints" what crime did you observe? I'll tell you - none. The "perp" is driving legally on a public road, but they're subject to being stopped, interrogated, and searched in the hopes that the officer may discover something that he can use to arrest the citizen. The problem is many LEOs can't tell the difference.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:06:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 7:05:58 AM EDT by andreusan]
Yes, I do know what this once great nation has become, and you are so hopelessly enslaved, that you cannot see it! Have a nice day!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:10:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 7:08:25 AM EDT by 95thFoot]
Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97: Germany had a LOT of good cops during the Weimar Republic, but after Hitler got into power..those cops had no choice but to carry out their Government's wishes.
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Esp. when Hitler "federalised" (lack of a better term) all police in Germany in 1936, effectively making them members of the national police force. They swore an oath of allegiance to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party,even if they weren't members. And who was the guy in charge of the police in Nazi Germany?.... They were now, in effect, a branch of the SS. "Naah- that's crazy- that'll never happen here- this is America!"
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:34:17 AM EDT
Aviator,Beekeeper,I call top bunk. If you keep bad apples and good apples in the same bucket,do not the good apples become rotten?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:43:11 AM EDT
Well, no, they are most certainly NOT a NECESSARY evil...they are an evil, period. Maybe necessary to the perpetuation of a police state, not to the security of a FREE state.
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Gotta agree w/ Mr. Writer here. At BEST LEO's are 21st century publicans. SeanTX
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:47:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:06:03 AM EDT
Geez..the way you guys come up with all these solutions, it is AMAZING. You all need to go be LEO's and the whole country would turn upside down and everything would be happy! FROM NOW ON, I am NEVER going to waste my time reading this trash. Some of you sound like freakin Timothy McVeigh himself...a bunch of psychopathic, paranoid, anti-gov't dorks. AND YOU ALL WONDER WHY THE ANTI-GUN PEOPLE THINK WE PRO-GUNNERS ARE ALL PSYCHO, ITS THESE WIERDOS!!!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:10:43 AM EDT
Yeah MP906, it's weird ideas like a right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, a right to travel unmolested, a right to due process in a court of law rather than asset seizure without due process. All those weird ideas our founding fathers fought and died for...
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:13:16 AM EDT
There are good cops and bad cops. I've been fortunate enough to only run into a few bad ones (one was a drug dealer, another supplied alcohol to underage kids, another slept with a pair of 14 yo sisters, you get the idea). They are human after all. However, I do not support the paper checkpoints unless there is an escaped or dangerous criminal in the area. As for them being the only ones to put themselves into dangerous situations, that is pure bullshit. I have repeatedly placed myself in harms way to protect good people from sickos when the cops didn't want to (nor are they required to as per the SCOTUS) and I have never taken a dime from one of those people. Chalk up 3 female lives still around in my win column thank you very damn much.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:26:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:36:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:42:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:01:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 9:11:59 AM EDT by ParaPyroPig]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: SGB, What's to flame here? If more LEO's had this attitude there would be less friction between "us and them"
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHH!!!!!! The overwhelming majority of cops do, Bee!!!!!! And there ain't no "us and them" - "us" IS "them!!!!" Most cops I know don't hold that ivory tower distinction - we are ALL citizens and ALL civilians!!! About the "DUI Checkpoints" - it's not mandatory that you go through them & they're not the ambushes that folks ignorantly think that they are: (The way it's done where I work in Floriduh) - About a week before, announcements are made in the press and on radio about where and when the S&SCP (Safety & Sobriety Checkpoint). - ~500 yards before the S&SCP there is a big sign with flashing lights that reads: "SAFETY & SOBRIETY CHECKPOINT AHEAD." - And if that's not enough, all the reds & blues flashing ought to annouce it clearly enough even for the dimmest among us. - If you don't want to got through the S&SCP, then phucking DON'T; turn around - YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THEM!!!! No 4th Amendment violations, no Naziesque "Your papers, Please", nor are you giving up any freedom for the sake of safety, et al... There aren't any "bad cops" - just assholes with badges!!! P3[pyro][^]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:10:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:16:50 AM EDT
LEt put it straight out. I don't like many LEO's. I have had the misfortune to meet many pricks in the force. What I don't get and this may seem simple to you. I get a speeding ticket for 80 in the 65 on a flat open highway with Absolutly no cars on it but me. So what kind of prick does that. I wasn't endangering anyone. I just think that some of the LEO's are 1) Stupid 2) Are Heartless(I know it aint true) 3) Have no common sence 4) Just like to have a power trip(most likly) [sniper]
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