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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/22/2001 9:43:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2001 12:32:42 PM EDT by AR_in_the_woods]
At the Mission Viejo High School in Southern California, you won't see kids rushing off to Key Club meetings or preparing posters for Students Against Drunk Driving rallies. In fact, you won't see any clubs at all that aren't related to the school curriculum. [url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,27826,00.html[/url]
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 10:26:29 AM EDT
Sign of the Times. Glad I live in a place where Christians are welcome. My town has 1000 people and 5 churches.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 10:32:34 AM EDT
Typical...rather than deal with controversey, the school chickens out and bans all clubs... This happened a few times before to gay-les-bi clubs and at least once to a neo-pagan club. Blech.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 10:36:07 AM EDT
hey M15A2, i myself am a Christian and in no way am i flaming you ar your town. If we, as Christians, were true Cristians, a 1000 person town would have one church. We focus too much on the little things about religeon. We make big deals out of when to take communion, how old should you be to be baptized, whether or not to use musical instruments in church, etc. We turn the Christian faith into many denominations. Christ says His church. Not His churches. Just my $0.02, although I think it's worth more than that.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 10:47:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By aggie_cox: If we, as Christians, were true Cristians, a 1000 person town would have one church. We focus too much on the little things about religeon. .
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Can't disagree, tho I will say this - There are MANY groups who CALL themselves "Christians" but are no more of Christ than the local coven. It IS Biblical to separate ourselves from such "churches." As far as this thread goes, I think we as Christians have the WRONG mindset if we think of these things as "discrimination." Think of them as an opportuntiy to suffer for the cause of Christ. "Count it ALL joy..." the Apostle Paul says. Don't call a town meeting, don't sue, don't call the ADL. Just patiently bear the abuse. THIS will be a more powerful witness to other about the reality of Jesus Christ than 1,000 books that could be written, or 10,000 sermons that could be preached. Remember - Christianity ALWAYS flourishes under persecution. The BEST thing the anti_God forces could do would be to continue making Christians wealthy in this worlds goods, fat, lazy and happy. THAT is how you defeat the Church of Jesus Christ. Persecutiuon is only fuel to the flames.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 10:47:17 AM EDT
Discrimination of any sort irritates me, but I wish some of the Christians would admit to being just as bad as those about whom they complain. In my area, if you're not a Christian...and a specific denomination to boot....you'd best keep it to yourself if you want to keep your job. Being a pagan here is just like being black in 1950...(or a gun owner in 2001 in San Francisco) . . .only difference is it was hard to conceal the fact that you were black.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 10:58:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Celt: Discrimination of any sort irritates me, but I wish some of the Christians would admit to being just as bad as those about whom they complain. In my area, if you're not a Christian...and a specific denomination to boot....you'd best keep it to yourself if you want to keep your job. Being a pagan here is just like being black in 1950...(or a gun owner in 2001 in San Francisco) . . .only difference is it was hard to conceal the fact that you were black.
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There's definitely truth to waht you say. But remember this - Just because someone claims to know Christ don't mean anything. I can tell you I know George Bush. Do you believe me JUST because I say so?? I doubt it. Yet, you AUTOMATICALLY assume just because these poeple say they know Christ that they actually do. No offense here, but this is typically done so that people can discredit Christs message, and go about living their own way. I am NOT saying that is your motivation, just merely making an observation. The Bible says you will know their genuineness by the actions they commit. rather than petiontioning Christians to clean up their own house, you SHOULD be saying "NO WAY these guys are Christians - let me go find some that are." Simply put - people who do what you say are NOT serving God in the way the Bible commands. So you are justified in criticisng them as INDIVIDUALS - but NOT in passing judgment on Christianity. Just a small clarification...
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:05:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2001 11:43:53 AM EDT by AR_in_the_woods]
Christianity is about having a personal relationship with Christ. It has very little to do with going to church and being "religious". There is a HUGE difference between the two. One that I'm willing to bet my eternal salvation upon. I have no doubt in my mind that I have a personal relationship with Christ. I'm far from perfect but I try really hard to live my life in a morally and biblically sound way.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:45:08 AM EDT
I can tell you I know George Bush. Do you believe me JUST because I say so?? I doubt it.
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Actually, because from what I've read of you here I believe you to be an honorable man, yes, I'd believe you until proven wrong.
Yet, you AUTOMATICALLY assume just because these poeple say they know Christ that they actually do.
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I have no idea if they know anyone. Nor do I care. I just want them to allow others the freedom to believe as they wish. To allow others the same freedom they themselves demand.
No offense here, but this is typically done so that people can discredit Christs message, and go about living their own way. I am NOT saying that is your motivation, just merely making an observation.
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No offense taken. I have no interest in discrediting your belief system. I hope it works well for you and brings you great comfort. But yes, I would like to live my own way, thank you...and I'll gladly fight for your right to do the same.
The Bible says you will know their genuineness by the actions they commit. rather than petiontioning Christians to clean up their own house, you SHOULD be saying "NO WAY these guys are Christians - let me go find some that are."
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Again, I have no particular desire to go in search of anyone. I'm quite content with the people I know now. I just want to be left alone.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:51:07 AM EDT
Just out of curiosity, are they denying Christians but letting in Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or other religions while specifically rejecting Christians?
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:56:39 AM EDT
even if your not christian can somebody tell me what could a christian group do that was harmful to a school enviroment as long as they didnt go around screaming SINNERS REPENT or something.....just goes to show you the word has already hit the fan.. its just in the background and slow...makes it all harder to fight against..just my .02
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:56:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: There are MANY groups who CALL themselves "Christians" but are no more of Christ than the local coven.
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In some sense, I'd say the local coven knows more about Christ than most people who call themselves Christians. Especially those Christians-in-name who've never had their faith challenged. (Uhoh! Now I've done it....[grenade])
Don't call a town meeting, don't sue, don't call the ADL. Just patiently bear the abuse. THIS will be a more powerful witness to other about the reality of Jesus Christ than 1,000 books that could be written, or 10,000 sermons that could be preached. Remember - Christianity ALWAYS flourishes under persecution. The BEST thing the anti_God forces could do would be to continue making Christians wealthy in this worlds goods, fat, lazy and happy. THAT is how you defeat the Church of Jesus Christ. Persecutiuon is only fuel to the flames.
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Well said, although I still think that Christians are entitled to not be persecuted, anywhere, simply for practising what they believe. Same applies to any other religion IMO. In my mind, the school boards of America are acting like idiots for trying to keep religion out of school society. America has a hell of a lot of different religions...better to get kids used to this fact [b]earlier[/b] than later. It doesn't mean that kids have to [b]believe[/b] all these different faiths, just recognize that they are there and a part of America. Ok, that's enough of my hippie crap for now...
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:57:46 AM EDT
I think they would be banning them all. Think about this. I would bet that our founding fathers are turning in their graves. A country founded on the belief in God. Just a little thought.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:59:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRY G: Just out of curiosity, are they denying Christians but letting in Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or other religions while specifically rejecting Christians?
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This particular school board is in fact denying [b]everyone[/b] including Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. the ability to organize clubs on school grounds. So hey, at least they're all getting stepped on. Doesn't that make you feel a little better? (NB: Sarcasm)
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:03:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rifles4Me: I think they would be banning them all. Think about this. I would bet that our founding fathers are turning in their graves. A country founded on the belief in God. Just a little thought.
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while i belive god was a big part they also belived in whatever god or power that be...
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:05:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By maxomenos:
Originally Posted By LARRY G: Just out of curiosity, are they denying Christians but letting in Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or other religions while specifically rejecting Christians?
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This particular school board is in fact denying [b]everyone[/b] including Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. the ability to organize clubs on school grounds. So hey, at least they're all getting stepped on. Doesn't that make you feel a little better? (NB: Sarcasm)
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Then it is not discrimination. I feel much better, thank you.[;D]
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:09:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rifles4Me: I think they would be banning them all. Think about this. I would bet that our founding fathers are turning in their graves. A country founded on the belief in God. Just a little thought.
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It was also founded on freedom OF religion as well as freedom FROM religion.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:13:36 PM EDT
The students wanted to meet after school. The school district said no. The students challanged in court and won. The school district said "if I can't have it my way then I'm taking my ball and going home". I bet all those other groups are now a bit unhappy that those darn Christians screwed it up for everyone else. [:\]
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:15:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2001 12:17:59 PM EDT by Rifles4Me]
Read most of the founding documents Most people who came to America had a common belief in God. God was an immportant part of life during the founding of our contry. Here is one example taken from the declaration of Independance... When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. That is the very fist paragrah note the word God in there. Here is the last paragraph... And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. pointing out Divine Providence
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:24:05 PM EDT
Most people who came to America had a common belief in God. God was an immportant part of life during the founding of our contry.
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Well, BELIEF in a higher power was certainly an important part of life...whether any particular person's god or God was involved, or, for that matter even existed, is quite debatable.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:27:09 PM EDT
One Mission Viejo High School board member to another--"We really dont want those Presbyterians so lets just tell the Baptists and Methodists that they cant come too!!!" Ha Ha!
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 12:31:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2001 12:31:51 PM EDT by Juggernaut]
Originally Posted By burn:
Originally Posted By Rifles4Me: I think they would be banning them all. Think about this. I would bet that our founding fathers are turning in their graves. A country founded on the belief in God. Just a little thought.
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while i belive god was a big part they also belived in whatever god or power that be...
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True. This country's so called "separation" of church and state means that we're not allowed to establish official religions and ban others. Any god you choose. At the same time, with themajority of the Founding Fathers as Christians, they also believed that the the nation was depepndant on the Judeo-Christian values that the people took to heart. This is not a Christian nation, per se, but the freedoms recognized in the constitution are (in their eyes) directly dependant on the sense of Christian morality, and personal responsibility which they(then) felt they could expect from the majority of the citizenry. For the most part, they were right. Our sytem of government gives equal protection to all (in theory), but the "Othodox" ethics are quite evident in our nation's system of government. We don't have a government like Japan's, simply because their nation's history doesn't have a deeply seated religious ethic in the majority or their population. So, yeah, not officially a Christian nation(for which I'm glad, imagine if the Gov't ran our worship), but a nation with strong Christian roots. Now, back on topic- As every group that was previously acceptable(withing reason) is being disallowed by prejudiced jerks, no, it's not discrimination. I'd be perfectly happy with an equally unobtrusive Jewish or Buhddist group(s), even though my beliefs are not theirs, because their generally accepted influence is beneficial, and they're not hurting anyone anymore than the groups of Christians would be. Yay, we're not discriminating, everyone is being treated in a equally crappy manner. Wahoo.[:|] Juggernaut[%(]
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 1:40:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By aggie_cox: hey M15A2, I myself am a Christian and in no way am I flaming you or your town. If we, as Christians, were true Christians, a 1000 person town would have one church. We focus too much on the little things about religion. We make big deals out of when to take communion, how old should you be to be baptized, whether or not to use musical instruments in church, etc. We turn the Christian faith into many denominations. Christ says His church. Not His churches. Just my $0.02, although I think it's worth more than that.
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They are all pretty much the same. Don't knock it. The competition has made the bake sales the best in the country! [:D]
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 2:03:19 PM EDT
I think your all missing the point here. The point is how does this affect me? And can I make any money from it? [smoke]
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 2:05:01 PM EDT
I have to agree with Juggernaught. I said that this country was founded in a belief in god. Though I belive that the constitution and declaration of Independance we inspired of God does not in anyway mean that you have to belive it(so please don't tear this apart). Religon was very big then and to some of now still is. But unforunatly most have forgoten or just don't care. While I may not agree I am not one to put them down because of it. What I don't like is when they try and change things that I belive are important eg. pledge of allegance, school prayer, theory of evolution and etc. I can't seem to grasp what some peoples problems are with these things. I can understand that they don't belive in God and so forth but why because of them must the children I hope to have be forced to go without it? If these people don't want their kids saying the pledge of allegence they don't have to. If they don't want there kids praying they don't have to. But again why must the others suffer? If people wern't so selfish I guess it might work. I am willing to meet them halfway they don't have to make there child pray or say the pledge, but in return I ask they don't stop those who wish to. Any of you think that is too much to ask??? Sorry I kinda got off subject alittle.
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