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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/21/2001 1:26:02 PM EDT
Just now, in a James Joyce type of stream of consciousness, I found myself reciting The Pledge of Allegiance. And, when I came to the final words my brain went "TILT". What do the words "Liberty & Freedom" mean? ~ Do they mean the same? ~ Do they differ in meaning? If so, how? My ancient school lessons remind me that the word 'Liberty' is derived from the the Latin word 'Liber', meaning "Free". This would infer that the two words are the same, [b]BUT... I'm not so sure.[/b]
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 1:30:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2001 1:28:35 PM EDT by Kofi Annan]
I do not believe the word FREEDOM is in the Pledge of Allegiance. I know it will NOT be in the Oath of Allegiance to the United Nations that is in your future. Thank you.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 1:31:19 PM EDT
Main Entry: lib·er·ty Pronunciation: 'li-b&r-tE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -ties Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French liberté, from Latin libertat-, libertas, from liber free -- more at LIBERAL Date: 14th century 1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice 2 a : a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant : PRIVILEGE b : permission especially to go freely within specified limits 3 : an action going beyond normal limits: as a : a breach of etiquette or propriety : FAMILIARITY b : RISK, CHANCE c : a violation of rules or a deviation from standard practice d : a distortion of fact 4 : a short authorized absence from naval duty usually for less than 48 hours synonym see FREEDOM - at liberty 1 : FREE 2 : at leisure : UNOCCUPIED
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Main Entry: free·dom Pronunciation: 'frE-d&m Function: noun Date: before 12th century 1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : INDEPENDENCE c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous d : EASE, FACILITY e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken f : improper familiarity g : boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use 2 a : a political right b : FRANCHISE, PRIVILEGE synonyms FREEDOM, LIBERTY, LICENSE mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. FREEDOM has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated . LIBERTY suggests release from former restraint or compulsion . LICENSE implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom .
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Link Posted: 6/21/2001 1:32:20 PM EDT
I think liberty means you have the right, legal and moral, to do something- but freedom means that is legal, and moral, and that [i]you have the means and the physical ability to do so[/i] A person in a wheelchare is not free, neither is a person who is bound economically to care for others or answer to others. So very few people in the world are actually free. But most people in the civilized world have liberty.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 1:36:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kofi Annan: I do not believe the word FREEDOM is in the Pledge of Allegiance. I know it will NOT be in the Oath of Allegiance to the United Nations that is in your future. Thank you.
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"Freedom" will not be in the oath because there will be something much better: GLOBAL DEMOCRACY!
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 2:16:38 PM EDT
Freedom is the ability to act without the threat of force being used against you. We all have rights granted by our creator and are free to excersise them so long as we do not violate the rights of others. a right is the sovereign ability to act without the permission of others. www.fatalblindness.com true liberal lib
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 2:31:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 7:05:42 PM EDT
I'm sure each word has many different meanings. Groups adopt different meanings to suit their political beliefs. Some use them simply for rhetoric, either because they can't form any coherent logical arguments, or because rhetoric is the only support they can muster.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 7:11:22 PM EDT
Y'know, those dictionary definitions are confusing as hell--they construe freedom as both a right and a privilege. Well, it can't be both...
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 7:25:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2001 7:23:54 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By Douglas in CT: Just now, in a James Joyce type of stream of consciousness, I found myself reciting The Pledge of Allegiance. And, when I came to the final words my brain went "TILT". What do the words "Liberty & Freedom" mean? ~ Do they mean the same? ~ Do they differ in meaning? If so, how? My ancient school lessons remind me that the word 'Liberty' is derived from the the Latin word 'Liber', meaning "Free". This would infer that the two words are the same, [b]BUT... I'm not so sure.[/b]
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The final words are 'with liberty and JUSTICE for all'.
Link Posted: 6/21/2001 7:33:22 PM EDT
To me, I have always felt that Freedom was the right to do whatever you want and some people abuse that. Liberty, however, is the right to do the right thing. When you think about it, the worst restriction on your freedom would be if you are restricted from doing the right thing according to your conscious.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 2:52:36 AM EDT
Friends: I know that my statement was less than definitive, and that I made a broad leap of thought. So, I apologize to those who have felt it necessary to state the final words of "The Pledge" include the word "justice" but not "freedom" in an erroneous effort to "correct" me. I failed to state:(revised text) And, when I came to the final words ("...with liberty and justice for all") my brain went "TILT". So, I began to consider the words we tend to use interchangeably today: Liberty and Freedom. What do the words "Liberty & Freedom" mean? etc.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 4:20:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 4:50:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Liberty Ship: To me, I have always felt that Freedom was the right to do whatever you want and some people abuse that. Liberty, however, is the right to do the right thing. When you think about it, the worst restriction on your freedom would be if you are restricted from doing the right thing according to your conscious.
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I think this is a pretty good response. Liberty caries with it responsibility - responsibility to not abuse your liberty. Responsibility to ensure liberty for another generation. Freedom is the ability to do whatever you want, no matter who it hurts. At any rate, too many people is this coutry use their liberty / freedom as LICENSE to act any immoral, selfish, despicable way they please. The Founding Fathers NEVER intended the liberty they purchased to be abused in such fashion.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 8:37:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Douglas in CT: So, I apologize to those who have felt it necessary to state the final words of "The Pledge" include the word "justice" but not "freedom" in an erroneous effort to "correct" me.
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It was not an erroneous effort to correct because YOU misstated the last words of the pledge. You were erroneous, not us.
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:03:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2001 11:04:45 AM EDT by RipMeyer]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: "Give me liberty or give me death!!" --Thomas Paine
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That quote was from Patrick Henry The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come. It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace–but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 11:25:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2001 1:44:30 PM EDT
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