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Posted: 6/14/2001 4:12:08 PM EDT
A store in my area charges a 15% re-stock fee for a NICS denial. Is this wrong? I'd like to think it would be conditional...I know there's at least some of us out there who've been denied in error/due to a system glitch.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 4:19:06 PM EDT
Just tell them to kiss your A$$![spank]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 4:34:01 PM EDT
On a special order rifle, I'd say that was reasonable. Taking a stock item off the shelf and then putting it back on the shelf after a nics denial, is not reasonable.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 4:34:17 PM EDT
So, they are in essence charging a 15% fee for the NICS check? Sounds illegal to me. Put it to them that way and ask them if they have consulted the BATF or the DOJ on the legality of such a fee. If they say no, then just tell them that you will go ahead and make the necessary phone calls for them, after all they could possibly have their FFL revoked for certain violations. You would just be looking out for their good. Michael
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 4:38:21 PM EDT
Critter is right though, the above only applies to rifles in stock, not special ordered. Even then though if you get the denial problem fixed and come back to get the rifle any respectable shop would consider your 15% paid as a down payment. At least thats what I would do for someone and I would expect the same. I really think this rule is more to keep people unable to pass the check from trying in the first place. Michael
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 4:57:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 4:56:06 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 5:31:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 5:33:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 5:57:16 PM EDT
Garand Shooter, I am a sales manager in the car business. People who couldnt buy a Big Mac with a $1 down come in thinking they can buy cars all the time. All these non-credit worthy individuals do is waste my salespeoples time. And we still have to tolerate them. If the shop owner doesnt want to have to face rejection from the batf, don't sell class III firearms. So I dont believe some arrogant shithead gun shop owner has any right to charge %15 for a stocked in weapon, a speacial order I guess would be reasonable because the money for the shop owner is spent.[heavy]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 6:01:56 PM EDT
It sounds like they do not enjoy your business. Better take all your other purchases to another store. Your friends and family should do the same. Next thing they will have a "service charge" if the magnetic strip on your credit card is worn out and they have to put the numbers in by hand. Then, because they punched the numbers in by hand, on a $1000.00+ purchase, the card machine will come up "Please call 1-800-xxx-xxxx" and they will tack on another 10%. They sould do the NICS and then do the transfer of funds.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:07:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Actually, I can see a reason for it. Keeps the staff from having to waste time with someone who is not able to purchase anything and not getting paid for it. I guess if I spent an hour or so helping someone pick out a purchase only to have them turned down I would be pissed. If it happened enough I might be tempted to do this too. It would at least keep those who know they are not gonna get it or have doubts from wasting your time. I am also curious how much paperwork is involved in a denial. Do you have to send up additional paperwork to the ATF or FBI automaticly, or do they often request it? If someone was to be prosecuted for attempting to buy would you have to lose a day of work to testify? If I would have to fill out a bunch of paperwork on a sale I didn't even get to make that would be another reason for this.
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It sounds like you don't want to be troubled helping people purchase fireams. If that was your business & your outlook towards customers I say I hope you lose your business. Only for the fact the Nics is so crazy it can give a different outcome each time. I'm an example: brought several rifles on different date and everything was go. then my last 2 purchases were delayed 1 for the whole 3 days then the following 1 for only 5 minutes before NICS called back & gave the ok.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:13:11 PM EDT
A re-stock fee for a NICS denial sucks. Maybe for a cancelled order or speciality items. For that, it is going to suck for the guy with a clean record who happens to be caught up in the red tape.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:20:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:25:30 PM EDT
You want a real sad one .. How about the guy that pawned a rifle... and was denied NICS to get it back... He can't redeem the pawn... His wife can't (straw purchase)... No-one can legally redeem the pawn for him (again straw purchase)... Ted...
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:27:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 9:26:22 PM EDT by 1GUNRUNNER]
A lot of talking out of asses I hear. We charge $25 and denials are running less than 1%. I have seen 1(one) case where a denial was reversed. So people we see being denied are warranted and these people should know that they are prohibited. Wasting my time will cost you $25.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:36:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 9:35:14 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:37:22 PM EDT
If it was a special order, I could understand keeping some of the deposit. If it was an in stock item, I'd say that there is no place in charging the guy a fee in excess of the regular background check ($7.50 in Utah). However, in the hundreds of special orders I've been party to, no one has ever been denied. And if you were denied, even after an appeal process, then you probably knew why that happened. Do you really want to call the ATF and tell them that this business, right or wrong (probably wrong unless they have this policy posted), that you, knowing that you are prohibited from buying a firearm tried to purchase one anyhow? I have seen dozens of people who were denied, but they all knew about why they were in that situation.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:42:26 PM EDT
Those backstabbing rich, money hungry, theaving lowlife scum of the earth, capatlist. hum what else? i cannot think of anymore yet!
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:46:09 PM EDT
How can they charge you for something that is not yours. By a restock fee that would mean they sold it to you. They can't sell it to you unless you pass the NICS first. I don't hand over cash until the NICS checks out.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:03:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shoowallagager: I'd say that there is no place in charging the guy a fee in excess of the regular background check ($7.50 in Utah).
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Now there's something to be pissing and moaning about! How the hell to they get away with that? We do not charge a fee for processing a 4473.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:12:39 PM EDT
Everytime I've bought a handgun it's $10.00 cash money for the background check, seperate from the purchase monies.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:35:31 PM EDT
PACorps... Do you have a CWP for here in the State of Washington? And if you do, is the paper it's printed on have a white background with blue lettering? I ask because here in Washington, these particular CWP's are always "cash & carry" i.e. no NICS check. If your CWP is of any other color... a NICS check is required. I've one of the former, however, about the time these checks were first beginning I did receive a denial. Turned out that it was because of a felony charge that had been dropped 20 years earlier! FBI guys had never cleared their damn records off. Needless to say, I had to make several telephone calls in order to get things straightened out. Oh well... am still waiting for that one to pop its ugly head up again. In the meantime, if a dealer were ever to try and charge me, I'd take my business elsewhere. My money is good and my record is clean... paperwork is a part of business and it doesn't need to have its cost passed on to me. [8D]
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:50:18 PM EDT
1gunrunner, the state charges 7.50 to run a background check. The Brady Bill gives them the right to do this. Worse yet Utah and other states are exempt from any time period to complete a check that is put into research. CWP holders are exempt from paying a fee.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 2:22:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 3:43:03 AM EDT
Refuse to pay the 15%. What are they going to do? Call your mom
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:07:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2001 4:08:05 AM EDT by Thom3]
j&g sales charges a 15% restocking fee for just calling them. If you open an email from them using Outlook check your sent messages folder later to see if you haven't been tapped for email addresses. IF I KNEW THIS ABOUT THEM I WOULD HAVE ADVOIDED ANY CONTACT WITH THEM. You have been advised.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 6:18:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil in Seattle: PACorps, spill the beans which store is it?
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Phil: it's Wade's...really, I don't have a beef with them, as I frequently drop by to chat with John Clarke and check out a few items...he's always helpful and never acts torqued that I leave without buying something, especially if I've asked to see the same rifles almost every visit. I think the re-stock fee has to do with more of a discouragement to those "questionables" who come in the store rather than trying to be dicks. They carry some pretty pricey items, many of them custom, some very unique (they once had one of those semi-auto Vickers replicas), so they could be trying to cover themselves there as well. waltere: I don't have my CCW yet, but I wasn't aware there were different ones. From what Wade's and WSI had mentioned to me on past (long gun) purchases, if I had my CCW I could bypass NICS (but they didn't specify a certain CCW). BTW--I'm planning on doing some shooting at WSI tomorrow...email me!
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 6:45:25 AM EDT
How about hanging signs in the store that read. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT NICS. CAN YOU PASS THE NICS CHECK. then list the requirements & laws of being able to purchase a firearm. then before you run a check ask the buyer if they read the sign, and meet the requirements to purchase.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 7:06:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2001 7:05:11 AM EDT by MG_ME]
[b]Refuse to pay the 15%. What are they going to do? Call your mom [/b] You havent seen my mom have you! she ever found out man![:D]
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 8:41:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: A lot of talking out of asses I hear. We charge $25 and denials are running less than 1%. I have seen 1(one) case where a denial was reversed. So people we see being denied are warranted and these people should know that they are prohibited. Wasting my time will cost you $25.
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You SUCK
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 12:47:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 1:06:11 PM EDT
I don't charge a fee for denials. I average about 1 denial for every 100 checks I do. I get delays all the time but only 1 in a hundred gets flat out denied. Its not really a big deal to me.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 1:21:03 PM EDT
I'd seriously question the legality of this policy. The firearm is not legally "sold" or "transfered" until the NICS is approved. The store can't charge you a "restocking fee" on an item they have not sold to you. That seems clear cut. They're in business to sell firearms. Keeping records and doing paperwork is part of the overhead in such a business. Any special orders I've ever made in a shop were paid in full prior to the order. So the shop is not tying up their capital in a special order. If they can't release the order to the buyer, then they're stuck with inventory they may not be able to sell. I can understand a restocking charge on that issue, but not on a NICS denial for stock inventory.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 3:12:30 PM EDT
I don't get it. Do you have to pay fo rthe item before the NICS check? I have nver paid before the NICS check. What would be the point? I can totally agree that if it is a custom gun or a special order then a restocking fee would be reasonable. The shop shouldn't be stuck with something that they are going to potentially have a hard time selling. But for normal stock items? No way Ripmeyer, I agree. I wonder if the piss poor attitude is thrown in for free or if that costs $25 extra.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:06:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By electricalspark: I don't get it. Do you have to pay fo rthe item before the NICS check? I have nver paid before the NICS check. What would be the point? I can totally agree that if it is a custom gun or a special order then a restocking fee would be reasonable. The shop shouldn't be stuck with something that they are going to potentially have a hard time selling. But for normal stock items? No way Ripmeyer, I agree. I wonder if the piss poor attitude is thrown in for free or if that costs $25 extra.
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I have to agree also if it were a special order I could see it but not a denial. Probably a democrap! [-!-!-] 1
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:13:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:47:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2001 4:51:12 PM EDT by 1GUNRUNNER]
Originally Posted By waltere: PACorps... Do you have a CWP for here in the State of Washington? And if you do, is the paper it's printed on have a white background with blue lettering? I ask because here in Washington, these particular CWP's are always "cash & carry" i.e. no NICS check. If your CWP is of any other color... a NICS check is required
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Another untrue statement. The only determining factor in a NICS exempt CWP in Washington is the issue date; After July 1, 1996 and before November 30, 1998.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:48:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hg112: Refuse to pay the 15%. What are they going to do? Call your mom
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The smart ones ring up the sale before the NICS check
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:50:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil in Seattle: The CPL does however exempt you from the 5 business day waiting period on handguns in WA. So it's paperwork, NICS, money, and out the door with your new handgun if you have a CPL/ Otherwise it's paperwork, NICS check, begin 5 day wait, come back to the shop, money, and then out the door.
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If you are not delayed.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:52:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Lame! I've heard the the majority of the rejections are administrative errors - similar name whatever but not the gun buyers fault.
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For delays, not for denials.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 4:58:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: A lot of talking out of asses I hear. We charge $25 and denials are running less than 1%. I have seen 1(one) case where a denial was reversed. So people we see being denied are warranted and these people should know that they are prohibited. Wasting my time will cost you $25.
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You SUCK
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Last but not least: RipMeyer I have something extra special in mind for you.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 7:56:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 8:42:40 PM EDT
My CPW does not expire until '03, and it IS of the cash & carry type. I received it the last time I renewed. Perhaps the next time it will not be NICS free. I could care less. Also, Eastside shops are too high priced in my opinion. I picked up an NIB SP101 from Bull's Eye in Tacoma about a year ago for $319.00 and at the same time, Wade's was asking $380.00. Now I ask you, where should one spend one's dollars? Keep the peace [8D]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 9:28:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By waltere: Now I ask you, where should one spend one's dollars?
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Not in gunrunners shop!!
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 9:50:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil in Seattle: Right, the 5 days would start if/when NICS gives an approval correct? If denied the 5 days NEVER starts, do not pass go do not collect $200. Gunrunner how are you for getting transfers done? I picked up a transfer froma shop today and I didn't get the best vibes from the guy. Maybe he was a little ticked because I picked up something he does sell, but no way could he have come close to the package price I got frpm the private seller.
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If you have a valid CWP in Wa and you get a proceed on the NICS check you walk out with the handgun - the new WA CWP do you no good on long guns and are not even put on the 4473. If you get a delay you wait. CWP's get you around the 5 day wait. We do transfers for $20 - I have done a lot of trasfers where the guy could have saved money just from purchasing it from us.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 10:29:49 AM EDT
The term re-stocking fee is total bullshit!!!! I for one find that a flat rate such as the one 1GUNRUNNER has posted in his shop is more than fair. It give the buyer fair warning not to "WASTE" the salespersons time. Being delayed does not enter into this at all. Rip, why does 1GUNRUNNER "suck" ???? I have known him quite awhile and he may be a "DICKHEAD", but I will tell you this, he is fair and will try to get you the best deal he can. Keep in mind, he has a large shop to run and this cost a great deal and his time is worth money. So to me, the guy that comes in and has been denied before and tries again should be charged a fee for wasting time that could be spent with a good customer.
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