Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 1757
  • Location USA AL, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 1757
  • Location USA AL, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:17:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 4:17:27 PM EST by Avtomat]
Some have argued that birdshot is a perfectly acceptable indoor self defense round. Here's anecdotal evidence of its effectiveness:



Print, weapon experts testify

A firearms expert on Thursday testified that two spent shell casings he examined came from a 20-gauge shotgun allegedly used during a 2002 bloodbath that left six members of a Crenshaw County family dead.

However, a state fingerprint expert, testifying in the trial in Crenshaw County Circuit Court, said he could not match the fingerprints of defendant Westley Devon Harris to the arsenal of weapons believed to have been used in the slaughter and shown to the jury.

They include five shotguns, one rifle and one revolver.

Harris, 24, is charged with six counts of capital murder in the August 2002, shooting deaths of his girlfriend's family. The victims were Mila Ruth Ball, 62; JoAnn Ball, 35; Willie Hasley, 40; Jerry Ball, 19; Tony Ball, 17; and John Ball, 14.

Joe Saloom, a tool and firearms expert for the state forensics laboratory, said two of three spent shell casings found at the crime scene matched a .20-gauge Mossberg pump-action shotgun recovered by law enforcement officers.

Saloom said he examined many other pellets and bullet fragments from other weapons that he could not scientifically match, but "could not be excluded" as matches.

Most of the recovered shotgun pellets, wads and casings were 20-gauge, No. 8 shot, manufactured by Federal Firearms, Saloom said.


www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWSV5/storyV5ONHARRIS12.htm
Basic
  • Joined Nov 2004
  • Posts 93
  • Location USA NJ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Nov 2004
  • Posts 93
  • Location USA NJ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:18:48 PM EST
Basic
  • Joined Nov 2004
  • Posts 94
  • Location USA NJ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Nov 2004
  • Posts 94
  • Location USA NJ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:19:20 PM EST
but still better than nothing
Penalty Box
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Sep 2004
  • Posts 1767
  • Location USA MI, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Sep 2004
  • Posts 1767
  • Location USA MI, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:19:22 PM EST
Close range, of course it'd be deadly. I still advocate slugs, 00 and 000 buckshot.

<font color=red>LET'S GO RED WINGS!</font id=red>
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2004
  • Posts 1163
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2004
  • Posts 1163
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:21:44 PM EST
someone should try making an intermediate shot size. like .177 pellets or something.
Captain Friday
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Oct 2001
  • Posts 2763
  • Location USA FL, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Oct 2001
  • Posts 2763
  • Location USA FL, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:32:51 PM EST
Maybe at real close range, like if you live in an apartment, with no long-distance shots and serious danger of over-penetration hitting bystanders through walls.
World Peace sucks!
Fight for World Freedom!

Recent MechE grad, looking for work w00t! Got an offer!
Basic
  • Joined May 2002
  • Posts 1419
  • Location USA OH, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined May 2002
  • Posts 1419
  • Location USA OH, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:36:51 PM EST
Mossad Ayoob wrote a book on combat shotgunning (please don't ask me the name, the book is buried out in the garage) that had some really gross pics of 8 shot wounds...Let me tell you, something you definately don't want to get hit by at close range in the head. That is what I have for the house...
Basic
  • Joined Aug 2004
  • Posts 596
  • Location USA AR, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Aug 2004
  • Posts 596
  • Location USA AR, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:41:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 4:41:57 PM EST by MoparMike]
My 12ga sits loaded with 7 of these in the tube. But, the longest shot in my house is 13yds, and that requires that I stand in the kitchen sink.
Basic
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 2427
  • Location USA MO, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 2427
  • Location USA MO, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:41:50 PM EST
At close range it will be like hitting with a 438 grain bullet (1 ounce load) - deadly, and useful.
Decides who to free and who to blame
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2002
  • Posts 12534
  • Location USA GA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2002
  • Posts 12534
  • Location USA GA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:43:37 PM EST
I think it coes lots of damamge for a inch or so deep, after that it stops.

It wouldnt be my first choice
A sad state of affairs when theres nothing we can do, sit and watch our country die.
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 8580
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 8580
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:45:03 PM EST
You can't beat #8 in a coach gun! My ARs are just for plinking and to get attention at the range!
BLACK LABEL SOCIETY
Cat Doctor
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 3389
  • Location USA MI, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 3389
  • Location USA MI, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:47:36 PM EST
Most experts recommend #4 shot for inside the home defense rounds. They are effective enough against targets but will not penetrate most walls of home that will endanger family members.

9mm sucks for inside, they zip through sheet rock like there is no tomorrow. I am talking several layers. .223 will stop.
Cat the hairer meat! <img src=/images/smilies/smiley_abused.gif border=0 align=middle>
Basic
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 617
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 617
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:50:49 PM EST
There's a difference between self defense rounds which need stopping power right-f'ing-now and murdering rounds, which can take quite a while to cause death.
Avatar
SiteStaff
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 18727
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
SiteStaff
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 18727
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:52:37 PM EST
Ammo FAQ: www.ammo-oracle.com
(Old) Mag FAQ: magfaq.tripod.com
Barrel? Go CHROME or go home.
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2003
  • Posts 474
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2003
  • Posts 474
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:00:30 PM EST
#8 shot across a room with an 870 Express with standard choke will leave about a 2" hole in a 2x4. Question: what do you mean it will only penetrate about 1" or won't go through walls??? That is absurd.
Decides who to free and who to blame
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2002
  • Posts 12540
  • Location USA GA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2002
  • Posts 12540
  • Location USA GA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:02:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
#8 shot across a room with an 870 Express with standard choke will leave about a 2" hole in a 2x4. Question: what do you mean it will only penetrate about 1" or won't go through walls??? That is absurd.



When I did similar it only went about an inch or so
A sad state of affairs when theres nothing we can do, sit and watch our country die.
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2003
  • Posts 475
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2003
  • Posts 475
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:04:58 PM EST
then I must test #8 again - I did a lot of experiments with different guns and ammunition with solid boards, watermelons, etc....about 10 years ago
Basic
  • Joined Oct 2004
  • Posts 66
  • Location USA OH, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Oct 2004
  • Posts 66
  • Location USA OH, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:09:20 PM EST
I know that it's different with people, but I've shot a lot of coons and ground hogs at close range with #8 shot and let me tell you, they did'nt get back up. On one hog I completely removed his head at about three yards. Thats from an 18" barrel with cylinder bore. On the other end of the spectrum, it once took me six 00 buck to drop a coon.
The only John Wayne left in this town.
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Oct 2002
  • Posts 3442
  • Location USA USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Oct 2002
  • Posts 3442
  • Location USA USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:13:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
someone should try making an intermediate shot size. like .177 pellets or something.



They do, it's called "BB".
To Michael Moore, George Soros, Terry McAuliffe, Dan Rather, Al Franken and the whole gang at Air America Radio -- you were great, guys! Thanks for the help! We couldn't have done it without you! - Ann Coulter
The only John Wayne left in this town.
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Oct 2002
  • Posts 3443
  • Location USA USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Oct 2002
  • Posts 3443
  • Location USA USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:17:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Most experts recommend #4 shot for inside the home defense rounds. They are effective enough against targets but will not penetrate most walls of home that will endanger family members.

9mm sucks for inside, they zip through sheet rock like there is no tomorrow. I am talking several layers. .223 will stop.



No flame, but you may want to talk to ol_painless about that. He's one of our resident Barnyard Ballistics experts. Contrary to popular belief, while a .223 will break apart it will also clear a hell of a lot of sheetrock before it disintegrates.
To Michael Moore, George Soros, Terry McAuliffe, Dan Rather, Al Franken and the whole gang at Air America Radio -- you were great, guys! Thanks for the help! We couldn't have done it without you! - Ann Coulter
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2003
  • Posts 476
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Jul 2003
  • Posts 476
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:17:34 PM EST
Question - what will happen if I shoot a slug with the modified choke installed??
Vote Bush '04!
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Nov 2003
  • Posts 8061
  • Location USA TN, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Nov 2003
  • Posts 8061
  • Location USA TN, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:19:12 PM EST
<---taking notes in this thread, in preparation for a new book that while set the ballistics world on its ear......

I was wrong!

Woohoo! <IMG SRC=/images/smilies/anim_bannana.gif border=0 align=middle>
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Jun 2004
  • Posts 396
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Jun 2004
  • Posts 396
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:21:43 PM EST
Your questions answered here...www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
Pro Pie = Pro Animals

God didn't make animals for eating, thats what pie is for.
Team Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Aug 2003
  • Posts 407
  • Location USA IL, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Aug 2003
  • Posts 407
  • Location USA IL, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:22:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 5:24:18 PM EST by woodbutcher223308]

My first tag,



Wife is curious.
Right Handed On A Left Handed Key Board.
Decides who to free and who to blame
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2002
  • Posts 12545
  • Location USA GA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2002
  • Posts 12545
  • Location USA GA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:24:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
then I must test #8 again - I did a lot of experiments with different guns and ammunition with solid boards, watermelons, etc....about 10 years ago




I might try to pull out some lumber myself and try it, but my range gets pissy about shotguns.
A sad state of affairs when theres nothing we can do, sit and watch our country die.
Master Luthier and flight sim junkie
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Dec 2001
  • Posts 7850
  • Location USA FL, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Dec 2001
  • Posts 7850
  • Location USA FL, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:28:55 PM EST
Finer shot at close range will result in mushy pulp for a wound instead of a series of perforations.

The damage to the area from a close range shot with high number shot will be radical and even if the victim survives the initial shooting, the damaged area is likely to become necrotic as it has essentially been pulped. Tissue can be destroyed beyond salvation by fine birdshot when the equivalent shot with heavier shot might result in a wound that is more recoverable.

The penetration of the individual pellets is going to be less at any given range, compared to larger shot sizes delivered at the same velocity.

At in-home combat ranges, the finer shot is likely to be just as deadly as heavier shot, and also less likely to cause significant collateral damage to bystanders or overpenetrate.


CJ
"Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark.
Now they will learn why they fear the night."....Thulsa Doom

"You can't spell AsshOLes without A O L"...ScaryGuy
Basic
  • Joined Sep 2004
  • Posts 179
  • Location USA USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Sep 2004
  • Posts 179
  • Location USA USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:30:25 PM EST
Like they say, A .22 in the hand is better than a .45 left at home. However if you have any sense youll take the .45 with you instead.

I have shot possums and groundhogs before with birdshot and the things have still crawled off a good way before they died. Just imagine what a grown man could do. Yeah it would hurt but I seriously doubt that it would put anyone down just like that.

When I first bought a shotgun I got an econemy pack of birdshot shells. But once I found out that they were pretty useless for self defense I replaced the shot with BB's. It was a long proccess but BB's definately have a greater effect than birdshot.



But if you are insisting on using birdshot for self defense then aim for the crotch.
Basic
  • Joined Sep 2004
  • Posts 512
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Sep 2004
  • Posts 512
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:30:33 PM EST
I'd use whatever gun of mine that's the closest to me at the time whether it be 12 gauge, 16 gauge, .40&W, 9mm, 7.62x39mm, .223, 7.65 Argentine, .22LR, 22 Magnum, 30Carbine, whatever. Any gun is better than nothing, and for the people that think they have their plan on what to use all figured out, if you need to use a gun on someone, it'll be when you least expect it so your plans will go out the window.
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 8586
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 8586
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:33:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
<---taking notes in this thread, in preparation for a new book that while set the ballistics world on its ear......




GOOD IDEA! There's a lot of solid info on this thread!!
BLACK LABEL SOCIETY
Vote Bush '04!
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Nov 2003
  • Posts 8064
  • Location USA TN, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Nov 2003
  • Posts 8064
  • Location USA TN, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 5:35:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
<---taking notes in this thread, in preparation for a new book that while set the ballistics world on its ear......




GOOD IDEA! There's a lot of solid info on this thread!!



I hope to be the first to tout the virtues of the .25 ACP and 2.5" .410 skeet load combo as a cheap, low-recoiling option for home defense.

And the tactical spring-piston airgun market is WIDE OPEN!!!
I was wrong!

Woohoo! <IMG SRC=/images/smilies/anim_bannana.gif border=0 align=middle>
Avatar
SiteStaff
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 18728
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
SiteStaff
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 18728
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 6:05:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 6:05:55 PM EST by Troy]
Ammo FAQ: www.ammo-oracle.com
(Old) Mag FAQ: magfaq.tripod.com
Barrel? Go CHROME or go home.
CAJUN®
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Jan 2001
  • Posts 4650
  • Location USA TN, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Jan 2001
  • Posts 4650
  • Location USA TN, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 6:13:43 PM EST
#6 shot from a .410 at 2 yds will drop a speedballin (heroin and cocain injected into the vein) #180 brother in law immediately. No follow up shot necessary. 12 ga would be even better.
WWT_B_SD
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Jun 2004
  • Posts 403
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Jun 2004
  • Posts 403
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 6:15:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
What is the PRIMARY goal of a self-defense round?

-Troy


Everyone knows it's not the round that matters...it's the sound of the pump action

that scares away intruders.
Pro Pie = Pro Animals

God didn't make animals for eating, thats what pie is for.
Team Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 904
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 904
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 7:00:51 PM EST
Michael "Iron Mike" Webb
Texas Tactical
WWW.TEXASTACTICAL.NET
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Aug 2002
  • Posts 16965
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Aug 2002
  • Posts 16965
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 7:27:43 PM EST
Resident Jack Booted Thug police apologist
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 10084
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 10084
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 8:22:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 8:29:09 PM EST by AR15fan]
I have seen people shot at near contact range with birdshot who not only lived, but never lost consiousness. Including a 9yo girl who lost her arm and a kidney, but never lost consiousness, and a 15yo male who lived for 45 minutes, and remained consious for the first 44. Those were 12 gauge birdshot wounds and the muzzle was only inches from the victim's torso.

But if you want to trust birdshot to incapacitate a grown man, it's your funeral. My shotguns are loaded with Horn 00 Buck, Fed 000 Buck, or 1 1/4 oz Brenneke slugs depending on situation.
"I want to be a homoerotic dungeonmaster Army of one"
-The Daily Show
C-4
Resident Bohunk
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Mar 2003
  • Posts 1847
  • Location USA NH, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Mar 2003
  • Posts 1847
  • Location USA NH, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 8:35:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
What is the PRIMARY goal of a self-defense round?

-Troy



To incapacitate an attacker as quickly as possible through destruction of the brain, cervical spinal cord or from cardio-vascular collapse due to massive internal hemorrhaging.

#8 birdshot is absolutely devastating on sparrows.
How easy a thing it is to find a staff if a man be minded to beat a dog.
--Thomas Becon, Early Works: Preface (1563)


trying to break 10k
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 7983
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 7983
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 8:50:26 PM EST
thats like saying look a bunch of gang banger were killed witrh 25 aco so it must be the best damn load known to man,
"All i want is a kogal of my very own"
Http://cyrax777.us
Avatar
SiteStaff
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 18729
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
SiteStaff
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 18729
  • Location USA CA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 10:37:08 PM EST
Ammo FAQ: www.ammo-oracle.com
(Old) Mag FAQ: magfaq.tripod.com
Barrel? Go CHROME or go home.
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Aug 2002
  • Posts 16979
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Aug 2002
  • Posts 16979
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 10:39:31 PM EST
Pirate
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Apr 2001
  • Posts 796
  • Location USA MO, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Apr 2001
  • Posts 796
  • Location USA MO, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 11:14:16 PM EST
I suggest loading #8 into a side by side for home defense. It's actually better than an AR-15.
I give up.
Basic
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 619
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 619
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/12/2004 11:29:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
What is the PRIMARY goal of a self-defense round?

-Troy



To neutralize the threat.

Ain't nothing more neutral than a hunk of lifeless meat on the floor.
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 1758
  • Location USA AL, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 1758
  • Location USA AL, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 4:04:19 AM EST
I am such a troll.

BTW, some of these victims were shot in the head. They all knew the perp, and probably walked right up to him before he fired. Hopefully the sick bastard will get the death penalty
Basic
  • Joined Jun 2004
  • Posts 1206
  • Location USA MI, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Jun 2004
  • Posts 1206
  • Location USA MI, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 5:04:16 AM EST
I have now reached the point where the only new thing I can learn from these "Best Ammo" threads is that there is nothing new to learn from these "Best Ammo" threads.

My home defense piece is a G23 with light, loaded with 180gr GDHPs. If more firepower is needed I have the BM M4 loaded with 55gr XM193.
SWC; TAO: Batteries Released!
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Apr 2001
  • Posts 4957
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Apr 2001
  • Posts 4957
  • Location USA VA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 5:27:26 AM EST
This is the effect of using #4 shot, generally considered to be the most effective round for in close work:



For sheer stopping power, a slug round is hard to beat. This is what it does:

"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." Dwight D. Eisenhower
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 8588
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Feb 2001
  • Posts 8588
  • Location USA AZ, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 5:43:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
The only thing that could possibly make this thread better would be someone suggesting loading #8 in a side-by-side and insisting its better than an AR15 for home defense.




I always keep my coach gun loaded with #8 by my bed! ARs are for looking cool at the range and bump firing wolf ammo through!

Besides you don't even have to aim the coach gun, you just point it and everybody dies! w00t!
BLACK LABEL SOCIETY
Basic
  • Joined Sep 2001
  • Posts 4629
  • Location USA WA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Basic
  • Joined Sep 2001
  • Posts 4629
  • Location USA WA, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 8:46:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2004 8:47:42 AM EST by SNorman]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
The only thing that could possibly make this thread better would be someone suggesting loading #8 in a side-by-side and insisting its better than an AR15 for home defense.





DOOD, can you imagine letting loose with BOTH barrels? By my calculations, two #8 shells going off at the same time would be the equivalent of 120 rounds of .223, so an AR15 is useless unless you have a Beta-Mag and full auto.

Oh, and plus you really don't need to aim... you don't even need to get out of bed. You hear an intruder, you just point the thing in the direction of the sound and let 'er rip.
Team Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Mar 2002
  • Posts 4018
  • Location USA GA, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Mar 2002
  • Posts 4018
  • Location USA GA, USA
Online Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 8:54:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2004 9:01:03 AM EST by Lightning_P38]
Armed Citizen
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Apr 2003
  • Posts 1009
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Apr 2003
  • Posts 1009
  • Location USA TX, USA
Offline Positive Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 8:59:42 AM EST
If I were being attacked by birds, I would go for bird shot.
"You exist to serve the mission. No one owes you anything." The Warrant's Manifesto
http://www.adoptasniper.org

prk
Team Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 3958
  • Location USA USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Gold
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 3958
  • Location USA USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 9:08:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2004 9:11:45 AM EST by prk]
Slap me with a carp if I'm wrong, but:


Originally Posted By LWilde:
This is the effect of using #4 shot, generally considered to be the most effective round for in close work:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/LWilde/Buckshotstudy.jpg

For sheer stopping power, a slug round is hard to beat. This is what it does:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/LWilde/12GaugeFosterSlug.jpg




I guess I'm pretty ignorant about shotgun ammo. The first picture includes a label in the upper right, saying that the ammo was #4 buckshot. Where do you buy that?

Thank you, doctor Fackler, that will be all. Next witness, please.
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 1759
  • Location USA AL, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Bronze
  • Joined Nov 2000
  • Posts 1759
  • Location USA AL, USA
Offline Neutral Feedback
Posted: 11/13/2004 9:51:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By prk:
Slap me with a carp if I'm wrong, but:


Originally Posted By LWilde:
This is the effect of using #4 shot, generally considered to be the most effective round for in close work:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/LWilde/Buckshotstudy.jpg

For sheer stopping power, a slug round is hard to beat. This is what it does:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/LWilde/12GaugeFosterSlug.jpg




I guess I'm pretty ignorant about shotgun ammo. The first picture includes a label in the upper right, saying that the ammo was #4 buckshot. Where do you buy that?

Thank you, doctor Fackler, that will be all. Next witness, please.


So-called "tactical" No.4 buckshot
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top