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5/29/2017 5:35:05 AM
Posted: 6/11/2001 8:16:33 PM EDT
I have noticed that the U.S. LE guys will tend to wait out a situation more now than ever. Why? The Senate Committee hearings (Ruby Ridge) did not take place till AFTER the Oklahoma City thingy. Why?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 8:25:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 8:25:40 PM EDT
Something, but not enough to balance out the negatives.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 8:27:35 PM EDT
This and the Waco subject have been trashed and hashed thoroughly today. McVeigh is a DEAD subject (pun intended).
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 8:38:37 PM EDT
So....you don't think the Government has "backed" off any? Not even a tennsie wennsie bit??? Read the first thread again, the part about Federal Law Enforcement branches tending to wait more and more for the situation to end. Versus running in with guns blazing.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:00:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jewbait: So....you don't think the Government has "backed" off any? Not even a tennsie wennsie bit??? Read the first thread again, the part about Federal Law Enforcement branches tending to wait more and more for the situation to end. Versus running in with guns blazing.
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I for one would like some examples of this phenomena you are talking about. Does Elian represent this new "tactic"?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:08:13 PM EDT
Tim accomplished the following: 1. Killed a bunch of kids. 2. Killed a bunch of regular aholes lucky enough to have government jobs. 3. Successfully alienated many people who would have agreed with his politics. 4. Offered up the perfect poster boy for those who would like to portray us as extremists. 5. Successfully "failed" to impact his intended target.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:17:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Tim accomplished the following: 1. Killed a bunch of kids. 2. Killed a bunch of regular aholes lucky enough to have government jobs. 3. Successfully alienated many people who would have agreed with his politics. 4. Offered up the perfect poster boy for those who would like to portray us as extremists. 5. Successfully "failed" to impact his intended target.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Killing Women & Children will never help futher anyone's agenda. Hey Jewbait: government slow down in what way. if you mean like in Idaho last wek with the KIDS. Yes they did thier but only because there was only Children there to begin with. Put some adults there too and we would have seen a whole different turn out. Because killing children by themselves is bad for what ever side does it. The Media is just like a rabid dog, you never know who it will bite next.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:26:29 PM EDT
Hey, two pints of Chocolate Mint Ice Cream in one sitting is an accomplishment.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:34:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:40:06 PM EDT
We're all talking about it... He was all over the news. What do you think?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:47:00 PM EDT
The only thing he accomplished is in his own mind, some crap about "standing for some misguided BS" to the bitter end and not backing down, to that end he accomplished something. To the issue of him accomplishing anything to further the gun rights movement....he gave it to us in the ass. Bill Happiness is a warm gun... Bang bang, shoot shoot...
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:49:01 PM EDT
Yes, McVeigh helped facilitate the raising of M-16 prices from $750 to $7500.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:51:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: We're all talking about it... He was all over the news. What do you think?
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I think I would have preferred that he use his military background and P_L_A_N things out. Maybe blow up an empty building at 2 am. Tax payers still get the cleanup cost but NO ONE dies. In simple terms only two things are possible: 1. He is really so stupid that he didn't understand he would kill "innocent" slobs with jobs and children. OR 2. He simply didn't care. Either way, he ain't helpin' anyone. He deserved what he got. Probably more.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:55:11 PM EDT
The Cuban kid??? I could give a rats ass less about that Cuban kid. Way too much publicity for that little deal. But you don't think things have changed? Look at photos of the LE officer charging into the kid's bedroom.....his finger is OFF the trigger and OUT of the trigger guard. Hell yes things have changed!
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:57:45 PM EDT
He showed where the lower limit of tolerance for government infringment on personal rights is located. Since the bombing FBI "death squads" or "hostage rescue teams" have got considerably quieter. The FBI has demonstrated McVeigh was right by hinding evidence( even if it did not change a thing) in this and several other cases. They even cheated on the Waco tests that "Cleared them or wrong doing", by using different guns than they used to kill people as recorded on overhead photos. McVeigh was wrong but the government is also wrong to murder people withput due process and "lose" evidence and all that other bullshit they pull.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:59:00 PM EDT
what is it with you people & these thing about McVeigh and hurt gun owners. believe it or not their coming for your guns with or with the bombing, the only bad thing is that time table is now accelerated even faster. Tic: M-16's are a marked item since 86. the bombing didn't happen to 95. so where is your logic on the price increase?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:15:01 PM EDT
Absofu**ingloutley right. Killing Women & children doesn't further anyones agenda. Someone needs to tell the feds this fact. If however "BUTCH" Reno runs for Gov of Florida and wins, well then maybe it does. [pissed]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:16:10 PM EDT
M16 prices have nothing to do with McVeigh. It's not only M16's... , MP5's, M60's, Uzi's, Stoners, all transferables have gone up 7 fold. Supply and demand, because there has been a finite number since 86.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:24:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jewbait: The Cuban kid??? I could give a rats ass less about that Cuban kid. Way too much publicity for that little deal. But you don't think things have changed? Look at photos of the LE officer charging into the kid's bedroom.....his finger is OFF the trigger and OUT of the trigger guard. Hell yes things have changed!
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did anyone thing that maybe he had his hand off the trigger because the whole world was watching this thing unfold thru the media's eyes. How can they government say we're the evil ones if their own people are caught on the 6 o' clock news killing a child.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:33:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jewbait: M16 prices have nothing to do with McVeigh. It's not only M16's... , MP5's, M60's, Uzi's, Stoners, all transferables have gone up 7 fold. Supply and demand, because there has been a finite number since 86.
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Hey, I just picked the sixeteen because so many of us drool over them. Since McVeigh, gun control has been all that easier for them to try and stuff down the sheeples throughts. The average sheeple thinks, "Well, if they can't handle what they have, better pull back on the reins."
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:41:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ticonderoga:
Originally Posted By jewbait: M16 prices have nothing to do with McVeigh. It's not only M16's... , MP5's, M60's, Uzi's, Stoners, all transferables have gone up 7 fold. Supply and demand, because there has been a finite number since 86.
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Hey, I just picked the sixeteen because so many of us drool over them. Since McVeigh, gun control has been all that easier for them to try and stuff down the sheeples throughts. The average sheeple thinks, "Well, if they can't handle what they have, better pull back on the reins."
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stuffing down peoples throughts! I believe they have dueing that since 1934. plus McViegh wasn't even on the radar when Papa Bush & Klinton started fucking with us. Shit Reagan was still in office when the ban took place in 86.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 11:00:25 PM EDT
Post from jewbait -
Look at photos of the LE officer charging into the kid's bedroom.....his finger is OFF the trigger and OUT of the trigger guard.
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Do you think either Elian or his rescuer holding him in the closet can 'see' that the finger is off the trigger and out of the trigger guard? In all the the excitement I doubt that either old gun hands such as us, or others could have appreciated the fact that the agent's finger wasn't inside the guard and on the trigger. That certainly isn't the training given an LEO for determining when and if to fire when a weapon is pointed directly at him or her. The Feds [b]meant[/b] to traumatize the kid. After his 'rescue' there was no way in Hell Elian could have been talked into going back to that house! The raid scared him to death and you can just imagine what he was going through at the time. [b]'Hello, Though you can't see my face because of my mask, helmet, and the H&K MP5A stuck in your face, I am from the Government and I'm here to help you!'[/b] Eric The(IGiveARat'sAssAboutTheKid)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 11:07:09 PM EDT
He screwed the gunrights movement. SteyrAug nailed it quiet succinctly.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 12:40:04 AM EDT
Tim McVeigh had about as much effect on the RKBA movement as a crack dealer with his Lorcin P.O.S. This was a bombing, not a shootout. Talk to the normal "sheeple" and you'll find that very few of them equate Tim McVeigh with guns. With armed militias, yes (a very unfortunate lie spread by the media, the people who SHOULD be the target of bomb-laden Ryder trucks,) but not much with guns in general. Clinton may have used the OKC bombing as an excuse for more EOs and unjust laws, but that is all it was for him. Like someone said, it would have been done either way. As far as the original question, yes. I believe McVeigh did one thing. He convinced most ignorant Americans that he acted alone, something which the facts completely contradict. The likely truth seems far more disturbing.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 3:44:34 AM EDT
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