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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/11/2001 3:24:03 AM EDT
I bet he cries for mommy.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 3:57:00 AM EDT
Give me a hit of that good stuff..
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 4:51:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 4:51:57 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Originally Posted By dnra: Not that he was correct in the timing of his actions,but he did'nt lay down and rollover an say pet my tummy and legislate my private property(firearms) away like we(gunowners)are.
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I'm curious. When would the "timing" be appropriate to kill dozens of non-combatant, women and children?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:06:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dnra: Not that he was correct in the timing of his actions,but he did'nt lay down and rollover an say pet my tummy and legislate my private property(firearms) away like we(gunowners)are.
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That's just the type of redneck-hillbilly logic that will ensure that none of us have any RKBA in the future. I don't care what your political agenda is. Killing innocent men, women, and children is NOT the way to accomplish it.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:27:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ClearFire: Fuck Tim McVeigh to hell, and fuck stupid motherfucking assholes like you dnra all the way to hell with him. You fucking pile of moronic shit.
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Get a GRIP!!
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:28:22 AM EDT
I don't care what Tim had to say. I also deeply resent the way the popular media has turned this into a "ceremony". He's no better than a common street thug that [i]barely[/i] got what he deserved.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:36:14 AM EDT
Post from Major Murphy -
I'm curious. When would the "timing" be appropriate to kill dozens of non-combatant, women and children?
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I assume what [b]dnra[/b] is referring to is the actual [u]timing[/u] of the detonation, i.e., that if McVeigh had chosen to blow up the building at 2:00 AM, with nobody present, he would most likely be a folk hero to some. Kinda like D.B.Cooper, the skyjacker. BTW, his last words were from the poem 'Invictus.' Eric The Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:39:21 AM EDT
...perhaps. I think, however, that he means that "now is not the time". Like I said, I'm curious... dnra?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:40:26 AM EDT
So he was an intellectual and a military "wannabe." I mean, the guy was an armor crewman, fer cryin' out loud. He tried to make himself sound like some kind of special forces, thousand-yard-stare bad-ass. Gunner, Sabot, tank. Big deal.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:41:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: I'm curious. When would the "timing" be appropriate to kill dozens of non-combatant, women and children?
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Why don't you ask your friendly Federal government? They seem to have plenty of experience at it.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:43:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dnra: Not that he was correct in the timing of his actions,but he did'nt lay down and rollover an say pet my tummy and legislate my private property(firearms) away like we(gunowners)are.
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First, I knew people that were in Oklahoma City. Screw that little coward. He got off way to easy. I hope he was suprised when he woke up in hell. As for your comment... Your little hero Timbo attacked the American way of life in a manner worse than a thousand Osama Bin Ladens ever could. He's a dips#!$. Just like all SHTF-Rambo-fantasy-the-gubment-and-UN-is-gonna-get-mah-guns idiots out there. Grow the hell up. There was NO excuse for what he did. American civilians should never have to live in fear of terrorism from some ass-faced psychopath coward. -SARguy
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:45:25 AM EDT
"Anybody" who deliberatley or knowingly targets innocents deserves McVeighs fate In the end God will judge them and their ultimate fate will be far worse than dying on a table in the federal pen... McVeighs dying words probably arent nearly as memorable as his words are now... as he has just realized the truth...Jesus Christ was his only hope and McVeigh turned his back on God and now is in Hell ...tormented night and day never able to rest...his arrogance is turned to screams... It is being banded arround by pundits that McVeigh was "chronic underachiever" that he felt a failure..had poor self esteem... yadda yadda yadda...his ulitimate failure...was his failure to admit who he was and ask the Lord Jesus to forgive him...instead "he chose" to stew in his hatred and bitterness he marinated his soul in venom..and this bent human being was slowly deluded by satan and his own capitulation to evil until the day he decided to play judge jury and executioneer...I will tell you one thing my mother used to say to me God rest her soul..."but for the grace of God go I".....was McVeigh a failure ...Yes ...in every sense of the word...but his main failing was he lost his soul and he gave up eternal life in Christ...as Jesus said broad is the way to destruction but narrow is the gate to salvation and few find it....Jesus himself declared that He is the only way to salvation...and He is the narrow gate..the gate Tim McVeigh did not find....
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:45:32 AM EDT
No, I'm asking dnra. ...or you, Boomer. Do you think it would ever be appropriate to do such a thing? Simple question.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:47:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SARguy: American civilians should never have to live in fear of terrorism from some ass-faced psychopath coward. -SARguy
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Yeah, the only terrorists we should have to live in fear of are the jack booted thugs in our own government, right?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:48:00 AM EDT
Well, it'll never be [b]'the time'[/b] to kill women and children in any struggle for freedom. I mean, how many women and children were killed by Gen. Washington and his command during the American Revolution? None, to my knowledge, and they faced far greater odds than any of us might ever have to face, having revolted against the world's only superpower in 1775. Eric The Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:50:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: ...or you, Boomer. Do you think it would ever be appropriate to do such a thing? Simple question.
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Simple answer. I don't believe that McVeigh intentionally targeted those children or was even aware that a day care center existed in the building. He obviously paid a much higher price than agents of our government do when they screw up and kill innocents.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:52:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: "Anybody" who deliberatley or knowingly targets innocents deserves McVeighs fate In the end God will judge them and their ultimate fate will be far worse than dying on a table in the federal pen... McVeighs dying words probably arent nearly as memorable as his words are now... as he has just realized the truth...Jesus Christ was his only hope and McVeigh turned his back on God and now is in Hell ...tormented night and day never able to rest...his arrogance is turned to screams... It is being banded arround by pundits that McVeigh was "chronic underachiever" that he felt a failure..had poor self esteem... yadda yadda yadda...his ulitimate failure...was his failure to admit who he was and ask the Lord Jesus to forgive him...instead "he chose" to stew in his hatred and bitterness he marinated his soul in venom..and this bent human being was slowly deluded by satan and his own capitulation to evil until the day he decided to play judge jury and executioneer...I will tell you one thing my mother used to say to me God rest her soul..."but for the grace of God go I".....was McVeigh a failure ...Yes ...in every sense of the word...but his main failing was he lost his soul and he gave up eternal life in Christ...as Jesus said broad is the way to destruction but narrow is the gate to salvation and few find it....Jesus himself declared that He is the only way to salvation...and He is the narrow gate..the gate Tim McVeigh did not find....
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What he said. Major Murphy, why don't you ask the FBI? They seemed to think that they knew at Waco. I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, Tim deserves what he got. I'm saying that governments are able to murder anyone that they want with impunity.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:54:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Well, it'll never be [b]'the time'[/b] to kill women and children in any struggle for freedom. [>]:)]
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I don't know about the Revolutionary War, but how many women and children do you think we killed during the unnecessary and excessive bombing of Dresden during WWII? The city wasn't even of any military importance. Not that I think either instance was right, just rather convenient what we can sometimes justify.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:57:00 AM EDT
McVeigh's last words: "Has that needle been sterilized?"
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:57:22 AM EDT
...he called them "collateral damage". If he didn't know, then he's an idiot. Who would plan such a complex operation without doing a little recon. What, did he just decide to blow up any building with a flag, and the word federal on it? He showed no remorse for those kids. ...and he didn't "screw up", as you say, he intentionally murdered. If he had wanted to just kill the "jack-booted thugs", he should have chosen a more precise weapon.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:57:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By SARguy: American civilians should never have to live in fear of terrorism from some ass-faced psychopath coward. -SARguy
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Yeah, the only terrorists we should have to live in fear of are the jack booted thugs in our own government, right?
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You just made my point...Just like all SHTF-Rambo-fantasy-the-gubment-and-UN-is-gonna-get-mah-guns idiots out there. Grow the hell up. This isn't about anything but that little coward-assed Timbo. Condoning the killing of innocents. And you call yourself an American. -SARguy
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:02:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 6:00:29 AM EDT by Boomer]
Originally Posted By SARguy: You just made my point...Just like all SHTF-Rambo-fantasy-the-gubment-and-UN-is-gonna-get-mah-guns idiots out there. Grow the hell up. This isn't about anything but that little coward-assed Timbo. Condoning the killing of innocents. And you call yourself an American. -SARguy
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Tell that to Sammy or Vicky Weaver. Oh wait, you can't. They're dead. At the hands of Federal Agents. Over a minor tax. Where is your outrage?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:03:54 AM EDT
We don't need to bring up the crimes of others when we discuss the crimes of McVeigh. That's a different topic entirely. War is hell, and Dresden, Hiroshima/Nagasaki happened. So what? The only thing that McVeigh was at war with was his own inability to get on with his life after being rejected by SF. He was a misguided wannabe, pure and simple. Hypothetically speaking, if one wanted to "wage war" with the U.S Gov't, there are many more appropriate and effective targets.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:05:35 AM EDT
Hey Boomer, answer direct questions. Be proud of your beliefs.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:07:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: ...he called them "collateral damage".
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Interesting. He chose a term our own militray/government uses when describing similars occurances.
If he didn't know, then he's an idiot. Who would plan such a complex operation without doing a little recon. What, did he just decide to blow up any building with a flag, and the word federal on it?
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He certainly didn't do his homework. He picked the Murrah building for a reason. Do your own homework.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:09:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 6:09:23 AM EDT by SARguy]
Originally Posted By Boomer: Tell that to Sammy or Vicky Weaver. Oh wait, you can't. They're dead. At the hands of Federal Agents. Over a minor tax. Where is your outrage?
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-sigh- Let it go. Major, you hit it in the 10...he was a SF wannabe. -SARguy
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:09:24 AM EDT
...and I've got to say, gents, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:10:29 AM EDT
Post from boomer -
I don't know about the Revolutionary War, but how many women and children do you think we killed during the unnecessary and excessive bombing of Dresden during WWII?
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Hundreds of thousands, most likely, if you add up all the civilian deaths in the Allied Air War against Germany. And, though I suppose that such distinctions are lost upon the victims of such 'collateral damage' we were in a declared war at the time. I don't believe I read in the papers where McVeigh formally declared war against the Feds, the State of Oklahoma, or its citizens, PRIOR to the bombing. Looks like he carried out a 'sneak attack' [i]a la[/i] Pearl Harbor. Eric The Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:12:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: Hey Boomer, answer direct questions. Be proud of your beliefs.
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I am proud of my beliefs. Never have I said that supporting the bombing of the Murrah building is one of them. A small part of me does, however, understand the anger that McVeigh unfortunately let overwhelm him. I cannot completely condemn him. It is not even my place to do so. I leave that to God.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:12:23 AM EDT
I say again, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:16:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: I say again, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake
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Yep.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:16:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SARguy:
Originally Posted By Boomer: Tell that to Sammy or Vicky Weaver. Oh wait, you can't. They're dead. At the hands of Federal Agents. Over a minor tax. Where is your outrage?
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-sigh- Let it go. -SARguy
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Yeah, why not? After all, they were just collateral damage, right? Lon Horiuchi should probably be given a medal or something for sniping a woman armend with an infant.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:19:56 AM EDT
I say AGAIN, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:20:31 AM EDT
I guess some people think it's different when the government kills inocent people[>:/]. Randall Flag
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:20:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: I say again, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake
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Yes, we all know that there are only absolutes, no shades of gray. Not that I believe that the Oklahoma City bombing was one of those instances, but do you ever think there are situations where the end justifies the means?
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:24:45 AM EDT
Other than the kids and visitors, the 'innocence' of the victims is a matter of debate. Many of the federal employees may have been in 'helping' agencies (Social Security could be an example, though I don't know for a fact that they had an office there). Then you could argue about whether the 'crime' of being part of the federal machine (especially if it's one of the 'good' parts) is worth the death penalty that McVeigh put on them without trial. Do you think the majority of federal workers, even ones in 'alphabet agencies', have a good idea what the kind of effect the government has on the lives of the people? In fact, the everyday sheeple probably have become dumb to this impact themselves, some actually enjoying putting their head in the government trough. Not that many realize what it's like to feel like a fugitive or be treated like a criminal while exercising a constitutional right, even though you've taken great care to comply with the letter and spirit of the law. What McVeigh did was indiscriminately kill a bunch of people. This is what the government did in Waco (along with a number of innocent children), Ruby Ridge (oops! a couple of other innocents there, too), and Iraq, even if the government tried, at least in Iraq, to kill only the people it meant to. This is hell, folks.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:26:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Randall Flag: I guess some people think it's different when the government kills inocent people[>:/].
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Not me. I just don't find it necessary to compare the two. Wrong is wrong.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:30:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: I say AGAIN, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake
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You're repeating yourself.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:35:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy:
Originally Posted By Randall Flag: I guess some people think it's different when the government kills inocent people[>:/].
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Not me. I just don't find it necessary to compare the two. Wrong is wrong.
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Well, maybe some of do find it necessary to compare the two. Who has killed more innocent people over the years, Timothy McVeigh or your benevolent government? Which is more worthy of your outrage? Interestingly enough, were various government agencies not behaving as they had, without any real accountability thus far, do you think the Oklahoma City bombing would have even occurred? It disturbs me that so many people are more upset with what McVeigh did than what their own government does.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:43:22 AM EDT
Why do we have to qualify which crimes outrage us more? No one here is saying that Mcveigh's crimes were worse. If they are, I didn't see it. And: ...and I've got to say, gents, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:44:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy:
Originally Posted By Randall Flag: I guess some people think it's different when the government kills inocent people[>:/].
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Not me. I just don't find it necessary to compare the two. Wrong is wrong.
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[i](2 black HH-60's approach low and fast, flare, and hover as a nomex-clad team ropes in, taking up cover positions...)[/i] Major, time for us to exfil here bro. Some people can't be reasoned with. -SARguy
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:51:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: Why do we have to qualify which crimes outrage us more? No one here is saying that Mcveigh's crimes were worse. If they are, I didn't see it. And: ...and I've got to say, gents, all of this moral-relativism I'm hearing here, reeks just as bad as when the Left does it. Speak straight, and stand tall, for God's sake.
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I'm pretty sure we heard you the first three times. The only thing that reeks around here is your phony sense of elitism. Maybe you should ride that high horse on over to the Democratic Underground. Being the elitists that they are, I'm sure they'll sympathize with you.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:53:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:58:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SARguy: Some people can't be reasoned with. -SARguy
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Yeah, tell me about it. There are a couple of them right here in this thread who are every bit as blinded by their rage as Timothy McVeigh was.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 7:04:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 7:14:32 AM EDT
Inviticus Out of the night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be from my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance my head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears looms but the horror of the shade, and yet the menace of the years find, and shall not, find me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. I feel great sorrow for the passing of many, yet none so great as for the loss of liberty. Semper Fidelis Clint
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 7:50:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Early Chow Recruit: Inviticus Out of the night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be from my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance my head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears looms but the horror of the shade, and yet the menace of the years find, and shall not, find me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. I feel great sorrow for the passing of many, yet none so great as for the loss of liberty. Semper Fidelis Clint
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What on earth does that poem have to do with "Timbo" who was, after all, a typical product of our self-centered culture? How exactly is his head "bloodied?" Oh yeah, he really suffered. Was he fighting hand-to-hand with those children he killed? C'mon buddy, let's get a grip here. And watch the "Semper Fidelis." Let's not disgrace the Marine Corps.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 7:56:19 AM EDT
McVeigh not citizen soldier...but citizen terrorist....JR Nyquist [url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23187[/url]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 8:00:13 AM EDT
I really am sorry gus, you truly do see clearer than me. Perhaps you could counsel and enlighten me. Every day I wake up and thank god that there are people as smart as you who can set the record straight. You truly are a great American and a pillar to be looked upon. With the utmost admiration your humble student in all that requires thought
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 8:03:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 8:18:24 AM EDT by AZ-Shooter]
Originally Posted By Early Chow Recruit: Inviticus Out of the night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be from my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance my head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears looms but the horror of the shade, and yet the menace of the years find, and shall not, find me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. I feel great sorrow for the passing of many, yet none so great as for the loss of liberty. Semper Fidelis Clint
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That deserves a second go around...Absolutely Beautiful...
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:25:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Well, it'll never be [b]'the time'[/b] to kill women and children in any struggle for freedom. I mean, how many women and children were killed by Gen. Washington and his command during the American Revolution? None, to my knowledge, and they faced far greater odds than any of us might ever have to face, having revolted against the world's only superpower in 1775. Eric The Hun[>]:)]
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Never say never. If you kill mine. I will kill yours. It will end when it ends.
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