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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/10/2001 9:52:51 AM EDT
I keep hearing about how steel jacketed ammo can cause a fire when it sparks against a rock or steel target. That makes sense but is there really any proof or is this just a best guess? "We've ruled out everything else so it must be the ammo..." Are there any fireman reading this that can provide some facts? Anyone else care to provide some proof? Thank you.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 10:02:49 AM EDT
Easy to see for yourself. Take a piece of steel and strike another hard object with it. It can produce a spark. Or take a dremel to that same piece of steel, if you aren't careful you can burn your house down. That being said, I seriously doubt shooting steel jacketed ammo has caused many fires. Usually the sparks are small and quickly dissappear. Maybe if you were holding a belt fed machinegun on a gigantic piece of flint surrounded by straw, hay and other kindling while you dumped a 1000rd belt through the gun then I could possibly see a fire starting. Michael
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 10:08:07 AM EDT
Thanks Michael. Thats my point. Sure it "might" happen but I would think that the odds are extremly low. I'm trying to find a report or anything else that states that a fire was started by a spark from ammo.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 10:16:20 AM EDT
I seriously doubt you are going to find one. You will probably find several on both tracers and incendiary ammo, but I have never heard of a case when simple ammo itself caused a fire. Except in the movies whenever anyone shoots a cars gas tank. Many indoor ranges ban steel jacket/core ammo because they are scared of the damage it may do to the facilities or equipment. Also many outdoor ranges ban tracers because of the fire hazard, but I have never heard of an outdoor range banning either steel jacket or cored ammo. What are you doing this for anyways, if you dont mind me asking? Michael
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 10:21:19 AM EDT
Better chance of hitting lotto.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 10:26:26 AM EDT
The topic came up 3 times last week and I'm more curious then anything else. Maybe I can get a grant from the government and do a study. Pretend I'm an "anti" trying to find another way to keep folks from having fun plinking. [beer]
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 10:33:25 AM EDT
steel doesn't cause fires, TRACERS do! [pyro]
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:20:55 PM EDT
I have seen a horses foot inpact the ground and the shoe stike a rock. In the dry grass in California a fire started. It could happen.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:48:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: I seriously doubt you are going to find one. You will probably find several on both tracers and incendiary ammo, but I have never heard of a case when simple ammo itself caused a fire. Except in the movies whenever anyone shoots a cars gas tank. Many indoor ranges ban steel jacket/core ammo because they are scared of the damage it may do to the facilities or equipment. Also many outdoor ranges ban tracers because of the fire hazard, but I have never heard of an outdoor range banning either steel jacket or cored ammo. What are you doing this for anyways, if you dont mind me asking? Michael
View Quote
The popular Angeles range here has had fires due to something. I also doubt steel-jack or steel-core ammo to be the blame, and tend to believe someone is shooting tracer ammo. Might have been the fire department requiring this. I need more proof. [url]www.angelesranges.com[/url]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:14:41 AM EDT
I am a firefighter and have responded several times to the local Sheriffs Dept. range for grass fires. I don't know if they are allowed to shoot steel or not, local civilian ranges prohibit steel and tracers. The local public ranges VERY rarely have fires. I can't remember the last time we went to the public range.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 10:22:03 AM EDT
[thinking] Perhaps we should ban all ammo with steel in it. It is worth the sacrifice even if it saves just one poor bush. "Think of the bushes..."
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 12:12:15 PM EDT
Save Barbara's bush!
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 12:17:53 PM EDT
DO IT FOR THE GRASS!!!! THINK OF THE GRASS!!!!
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 12:49:54 PM EDT
It's more likely a shooter tossing his still lit cigarette butt that causes the fire [:p]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 1:48:33 PM EDT
Steel core has caused a lot of problems in a few local ranges I shoot at. Since the ban, there haven't been any fires at these same ranges. It's not hard to find the cause when the fires start exactly where brush meets the dirt backstop. It's not just the spark from impact but it's the steel jacket itself and all the little pieces of red hot steel that fragment onto super dry leaves and brush. These hillsides are like a gasoline soaked rag waiting for a source of heat. A semi-extinguished cigarette is all the heat you need to set the whole mountain on fire. I've dug out some FMJ's and steel core slugs right after shooting them into a dirt hillside. They both absorb a good amount of heat from the friction of the barrel and the impact with the ground. The Steelcore, however, was so hot that I couldn't touch it with my bare hands. And this was after several minutes sitting in the dirt. Copper jacketed lead gets warm but no where near combustion temps.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 1:52:44 PM EDT
Several years ago, the leader of the local gun rights group brought several students out in the boonies for some target practice. Long story short, he was fined big $$$ for starting a brush fire somewhere in the Cleveland National Forest. It was started with steel jacketed ammo. It pretty much destroyed the credibility of his group. Shooting this stuff in a rocky area at night is quite a fireworks show.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 2:03:44 PM EDT
We have had a few fires at our range. There was only one member one the range and he was shooting M2 ball in the direction the fire started. Problem was, he didn't come tell anyone right away. Dry grass can burn pretty easy, and when the wind pushes the fire across the hill it doesn't help. We have alot of rocks and decomposed granite. No matter what you do, these morons will still shoot at rocks on the hill. Remind them that the last fire did $15,000 damage to the neighbors property, and they brought out helicopters to put out the fire, and they say " oh, that sucks". Then they sneek in steel ammo and blatently shoot rocks when they "think" that we don't see them. Morons!
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 2:11:09 PM EDT
Don't know all the details, but 2 weeks ago a fire was started up near Susanville (California) by some guy target shooting on private timberlands. It almost reached the town, and burned some 4500 acres. The question I have is how exactly the fire started. In CA tracers are illegal (as are dragon's breath type shot shells) so if he was not breaking the law then it had to be from bullets striking something producing sparks, but for all I know it could have been blackpowder with smouldering wads etc. Considering where we are though, if it had been one of those "evil assault weapons" it would have been central to the news stories.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 2:23:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 2:26:54 PM EDT by AR_in_the_woods]
I was hoping for something more when I started this topic. I appreciate all the info that has been presented. I'll have to keep looking for more proof that sparks from bullets are the serious threat that some believe. Everything I've heard so far, while somewhat convincing, is circumstantial and wouldn't convict anyone let alone some poor innocent bullet that happens to be wearing a steel jacket when a fire breaks out... Thanks again. Edited 'cause my fingers ain't working correctly today.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 4:35:23 PM EDT
AR in the Woods, The guy was cited for starting the fire and letting it get out of control. There is no perhaps or maybe, it was known the same day, so he either reported it himself (most likely, firearms owners tend to be very responsible) or he was placed at the scene. Something he did started the fire, and hot brass isn't that hot. Something out of the business end did something, thats why I say I don't know all the details- I just have not heard how exactly the fire was started. For all I know he could have been shooting at propane bottles.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 4:38:12 PM EDT
Shooting at propane bottles, now that's responsible... Thanks for replying Madkiwi
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