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Posted: 6/10/2001 1:11:28 AM EDT
I've been reading up on AR's for awhile now. I am left handed and just recently found out that some AR's,even with the deflector,will send brass down the back of the shirt,ouch. I read something about cutting a coil off the extractor spring to bring the angle of ejection to 2 o'clock as opposed to the usual 5 o'clock. I'm going to buy a Bushmaster Shorty AK because of the nifty muzzle brake. I am only going to fire M193 and SS109 through it. Sometimes I will shoot commercial soft points because that's what I'll shoot at the deer's neck/spine. With the exception of Coopers,I will only use USGI mags and Thermold. I will always clean it after each shoot as to however the military manual says. If it ever jams on me after the break in period I will be pissed. I write this because I'm about to(or not) spend alot of money on a weapons system that might burn me down the back of my shirt.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:18:23 AM EDT
Check out the DPMS upper "SOUTHPAW" type. Its for left handed shooters. DPMS is one of the best AR 15 on the market.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:28:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2001 1:29:52 AM EDT by Ross]
From what I've seen, it's usually down the front of the shirt if you're shooting prone. Buttoning the top button of your shirt helps alot with hot brass going down front or back. The case deflector works pretty well. If you start having problems with hot brass, get one of the older M16A1 plastic case deflectors. The Army used these on the range. They're a one-piece plastic thingy that simply fits into the space of your charging handle and snaps into the scope mount hole on the carry handle. The deflector part is HUGE. Not that it will get in the way, but it's way bigger than the A2 receiver one. If that thing doesn't protect you as a south-paw, then there's no hope. They're light weight, and you don't even notice it's there. I'm not 100% sure it will fit on the upper with an A2 deflector, but it's just plastic. I'm sure you could just cut a clearance if it doesn't fit out-of-the-box. They're pretty cheap too, when you find them. I saw one for sale recently, but I don't know where it was or how much. Somebody here will probably be able to give you a line one one. If I was left handed, I'd move heaven and Earth to find one just to have. If you're getting a flattop it won't work, as you need the carry handle to mount it. If you're mounting a scope in the scope mount hole, you'll probably need to figure out a different mounting scheme, but that should be no problem. If worse comes to worse, get one of those brass catchers for the AR and just take the bag off/modify it to suit your needs. Ross
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:59:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dacon: Check out the DPMS upper "SOUTHPAW" type. Its for left handed shooters. DPMS is one of the best AR 15 on the market.
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I thought about getting that upper but it doesn't have the "door" that keeps dirt out of the bolt area. I guess I wouldn't ever really need that but I'd rather get the angle of ejection to 2 o'clock. I want to keep everything as mil spec as possiable and that aftermarket lefty upper sounds rough.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 2:09:03 AM EDT
Thanks Ross. I thought about that stuff. I don't want shit hanging off of my compact,lightweight battle rifle![:)] I might get the A3 model anyway but I gotta go to a gunshow and it out. Dacon,I might have to e-mail DPMS and start checking up on those uppers. That's if I decide to get an AR at all.[:D]
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 2:16:47 AM EDT
DPMS makes a good product. I would assume it does have the "door" to keep dirt out of the bolt area. Send them an E-mail to verify though. Besides, you can always buy a regular upper and tweak it all ya want. Not sure what you mean by "after market upper". No AR is "mil-spec" since they are not full auto's. But most are made to military specifications as far as part tolerances and material strength etc. Some are better then others, and I've been told by many on this board that DPMS makes one of the better ones. I believe the angle the brass is thrown out is a function of the extractor spring stiffness. I may be wrong here or they're may be other factors, so get others to say what they will.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 2:56:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stealth: DPMS makes a good product. I would assume it does have the "door" to keep dirt out of the bolt area. Send them an E-mail to verify though.
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I asked before,it doesn't have it.
Besides, you can always buy a regular upper and tweak it all ya want.
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Now that is the good thing about AR's. If I can't get the standard upper to work out,there's the damn southpaw one.
Not sure what you mean by "after market upper". No AR is "mil-spec" since they are not full auto's. But most are made to military specifications as far as part tolerances and material strength etc. Some are better then others, and I've been told by many on this board that DPMS makes one of the better ones.
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By that I meant that "as close to mil spec" is what I said. Chrome lined bore,mil spec chamber,door for the dust,material strength. I could do for the parts tolerances to be a little "looser". This way the rifle wouldn't be so finikey with cleanliness,but then it wouldn't be as accurate either,sigh. People always forget to mention DPMS when they refer a brand of AR to someone. I see refered mostley....Colt, Bushmaster,Armalite. Most say post ban Colt sucks. Bushmaster has a good rep so that's what I want. I wish I had money to burn,I hate wasting money.
I believe the angle the brass is thrown out is a function of the extractor spring stiffness. I may be wrong here or they're may be other factors, so get others to say what they will.
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This is true. As I said in my initial post cutting coils off the extractor spring will angle the brass different ways. But it might also cause hangups in the process. I haven't even gotten the rifle yet and I'm asking questions about tweaking it. If I buy this rifle it will be the start of a long waving relationship,I can see it now.[:O]
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:03:23 AM EDT
Hi Bin, Being a Southpaw myself I feel your pain. My first experience with an AR was with an old SP-1 I purchased just after the ban. No deflector. Hot brass upside the head isn't fun! I sold it at the next Gunshow. I held off on buying another AR till about two years ago. Bought two stripped PWA lowers, Built with Bushmaster parts & uppers and haven't look back since. My current inventory is two Bushmaster 16"A3, a V-Match 20", and a CAV-15 with a Bushy 16"AK74 Comp. All deflectors work fine and leave a neat Pile-O-Brass at 5 O-Clock. I have have yet to experience any burns from spent casings. Personally I don't think the extra cost and parts availability on a Lefty-only upper are worth it. Bushmaster all the way. Good Luck & Be Safe. [uzi]
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:15:08 AM EDT
Thanks for the reply yomama. The pain is almost unbearable. uhhhh. Why haven't you ever tried to get your brass to fly at 2:00 instead of 5:00??? It would be nice I think. Parts aren't available for the DPMS bolt??? I was hoping to buy a COMPLETE lefty bolt just to have a spare. This really starting to piss me off. I'm about to just buy a FAL.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:21:46 AM EDT
Maybe I'm just lucky, but after two SP1's (20" barrel and 16" barrel cut back to 11.5"and fitted w/ XM177 type brake) and a heavy barrel on the new type reciever, I've never been hit with an ejected case. Yes, I'm as left handed as they come. The only thing "different" about my guns is that I've always fitted them with M16 type hammers with the auto sear notch ground off, and the heavier M16 boltcarriers with a notch cut in to prevent any auto sear contact. I'm not claiming that this prevents rear ejection, and I didn't fit my guns this way for that reason, but it does kind of make me wonder. Oh yeah, I also use a heavier than normal extractor spring. Somewhere along the line I must have done something to prevent the problem, without realizing it. ?????
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:35:35 AM EDT
BIN, Here's a couple links. GarryOwen from Cavalry Arms sells cloth Brass catchers. I have the same problem with the 5oclock brass but for different reasons. This will solve your problem without messing with the integrity of your extractor spring. Just my .02, good luck either way. Del. [url]cavalryarms.com/accessories.htm[/url] [url]www.cavalryarms.com/brasscatcher.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 5:22:23 AM EDT
I'm a lefty. When I was in the Army, late 60's early 70's, I had to keep the top button buttoned, otherwise no problem. I have fired an AK shorty Bushmaster a lot and it had not been a problem at all. Seems like the casings go forward and to the right enough that it's not an issue. Now, if you are looking at an Hk-91, you MUST have the aftermarket deflector.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 6:04:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2001 6:05:49 AM EDT by Voodoobadger]
BIN, I have been shooting AR's left handed for 25 years. ( I am right handed but my left eye is dominent. ) In the Marines I occassionally got some brass in the cheek ( face ). The M16A1's did not have the deflectors. Once, on rapid fire, several went down my neck between the flak jacket collar and my skin. I had the tattoos of that encounter for almost 2 years! But not to worry. Since the addition of the brass deflector I have not experienced a single incident. That includes various Bushmasters, Colt, and Olympics. I shoot at least 500+ rounds per month. My advice to you is go with the BM or other AR of your choice and don't worry about being left handed. It shouldn't make any difference in terms of brass ejection. The only change you might consider is the addition of an ambidextrous safety switch. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 6:14:45 AM EDT
It will take you about 15 minutes to dis-assemble the bolt, taking the ejector out, then clipping the spring about one and a half coils, re-assemble the bolt and the rifle is ready to shoot. It is a lot easier to do than losing money on a trade, or buying a new rifle, when the one you already have is excellent when this very minor modification is made. I think too many of us shooters believe that you have to have a little of the witch doctor in us to work on guns. They are only machines made from metal. If you can work on a bicycle, you can work on a gun. Yours in shooting, kelly
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 8:02:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 9:05:18 AM EDT
Just for the record I'm pretty sure that you can get spare bolts and bolt parts for the Southpaw upper from DPMS. Seems like I saw it in one of their catalogs. E-mail Jared to make sure. If they offer them in the rifle then I don't see why they wouldn't offer them seperately. I believe DPMS is one of the best AR manufacturers out there. ques
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:33:38 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replies. I think shortening the extractor spring might be the best thing to try other than using a brass catcher. Seems most will stop short of suggesting a lefty the DPMS southpaw upper. Still,brass ejecting to the left should be on the no.1 list for a left handed shooter I think. If it's worth it though to put my money on a DPMS made upper using a Bushy lower would have to be trial tested for reliability I guess. DPMS is not as well made as Bushmaster,I know this man.[:D]
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:48:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:58:50 PM EDT
The plastic detachable shell deflector isn't what it's cracked up to be, it generally just ejects the brass into the crook of your arm. Shooting the M16A1 at Ft. Dix pretty well soured me on AR-type rifles until recently. I went ahead and built one on an ASA lower and standard DPMS upper. Things went so well (what brass?), that I jumped off and bought an Armalite M15A2. No contact with hot brass yet. The built-in deflector works just fine.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 2:03:14 PM EDT
my buddy and i were shooting our dissipators, he was prone.... later that day i noticed a perfect little circle on his right cheek. well, i thought it was funny as hell but maybe you had to be there.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 3:35:04 PM EDT
I am a lefty and have never been hit by brass.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:31:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Voodoobadger: BIN, not to worry. Since the addition of the brass deflector I have not experienced a single incident. That includes various Bushmasters, Colt, and Olympics. I shoot at least 500+ rounds per month. My advice to you is go with the BM or other AR of your choice and don't worry about being left handed. It shouldn't make any difference in terms of brass ejection. The only change you might consider is the addition of an ambidextrous safety switch. Good Luck.
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I concur!!! JAGinGA
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:41:16 PM EDT
Another lefthanded AR owner here, who has experienced no problem with any AR equipped with the brass deflector.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:50:16 PM EDT
I too am left handed and the AR15 is one of the few right handed rifles that has not given me problems. I have bought left handed rifles in the past, in bolts. But if you are like most other gun cranks eventually you want something else and go to swap. If you do this with a left handed rifle you better provide your vaseline. Go with the bush, try a right one before going to the expense of getting something you might not need. Also the AK brake is cool but it is noticeably louder than just about any other brake. It was designed for full auto fire control, not noise reduction.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:52:04 PM EDT
I've fired probably thousands of rounds. I used to shoot left handed, and one time got a casing caught between my chinstrap and my cheek! OUCH! I had a pretty nasty scar for several years, It is nearly gone now. after that, I tried to shoot right handed, and found that I am a better shot that way anyway. I think we should all try to be proficient in ambidexterious(SP?) use of our firearms, because you never know which side of your cover you will need to shoot from, Unless of course, you're shooting a Brown Bess musket (I think a lefty would loose half his face on that one!) Airborne
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 9:08:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By crumabn: I've fired probably thousands of rounds. I used to shoot left handed, and one time got a casing caught between my chinstrap and my cheek! OUCH! I had a pretty nasty scar for several years, It is nearly gone now. after that, I tried to shoot right handed, and found that I am a better shot that way anyway. I think we should all try to be proficient in ambidexterious(SP?) use of our firearms, because you never know which side of your cover you will need to shoot from, Unless of course, you're shooting a Brown Bess musket (I think a lefty would loose half his face on that one!) Airborne
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Ouch,I feel for ya man I get hit in the arm with 10/22 brass sometimes(longsleeves makes in unnoticeable),of course this is NOTHING compared to getting hit in the chin with 566NATO brass. I think people should practice ambi also. If you have to shoot around a corner,say in yer house,you won't have a choice when trying to keep your body behind cover. I can shoot a pistol right handed ok. I am left eye dominant so it ain't easy shooting a rifle right handed. I'm gonna ditch the DPMS Southpaw idea. I will however,play around with the extractor spring to get that brass as far away from me as possiable!
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 9:17:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By seb127 Also the AK brake is cool but it is noticeably louder than just about any other brake. It was designed for full auto fire control, not noise reduction.
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That is something that is making me think also. I think a bare barrel AR just looks funny. A preban on the other hand costs way too much just to have a flashider and collapsiable stock. It has to have [b]something[/b] on the end so I figured this will do.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 9:49:16 PM EDT
BIN, like you I am right handed but left eye dominant. I shoot a right handed Colt AR15 both left and right handed and have had no problems. I agree with you, shooters should learn to shoot ambi, you never know when you may lose the use of some body part which would not allow you to shoot normally. The AR15 is unquestionalbly the best rifle system in the world so you cant go wrong, buy any reputable brand and you will not be sorry. Best of luck and good shooting!!
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