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Posted: 6/7/2001 4:48:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2001 2:23:22 PM EDT by Kuiper]
from USMC Web Site He gazed at the monitor intently as if expecting a different turn out or as if he had missed something the first time around. The video always begins with the title "Unknown Russian Soldier" on a black background, but somehow it always seems like anyone's story. The boot of a Chechen rebel is planted flat on the side of the Russian soldier's head and the pressure increases. The Russian soldier is squirming and wondering where he had gone wrong. It is that moment, while thoughts of the Russian soldier's home pass through his mind that the rebel cuts his throat. The Russian soldier remembers when he was a boy on a farm in the Ukraine and had to kill the pigs for the next day's market. His thoughts slowly slip away as he dies. Where had he gone wrong? No matter how often Gunnery Sgt. Timothy J. Fox sees this video clip, he can't help but feel the importance of his teachings to tomorrows warriors. "This guy probably wandered off from his platoon and was caught by the Chechens," said Fox. "I show this video to my students so they will always think about their job and how important it is for them to survive." Fox, an instructor in anti-tank warfare at the School of Infantry, Weapons Company, described his work as "important to a young grunt because it gives them the skills to reduce the probability of becoming a casualty." If you want to see the video click here, but be warned, you won't get the image out of your head [url]http://www.bangedup.com/gh-czech.mpg[/url] [red][size=2]WARNING IF YOU CHOOSE TO WATCH THE VIDEO LINKED ABOVE YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A SOLDIER DIE A VERY BRUTAL DEATH.[/RED][/SIZE=2]
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:01:46 PM EDT
After I saw that, I didn't touch my mouse for a good minute. My stomach turned, my saliva buds spurted, I felt nauseaus for a moment. People, watch this, and think twice about war. What McVeigh did is no less.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:02:52 PM EDT
That is pretty shocking. I guess the moral is die fighting. Don't ever let the bastards take you alive.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:04:41 PM EDT
Don't watch it! It's definitely something that I wish I've never seen. It's worse than that lady getting pulverized by the speeding train. And you can't purge your memory like a computers hard drive. Be forewarned.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:10:15 PM EDT
Thanks for the warning - I don't think I'll watch it. I don't really want to see war like that - I may be too chickensh!t to act if I ever needed to. Better not to know.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:11:27 PM EDT
It's tough to justify execution like that. But imagine that guy did this to your sister or daughter: Monday 04 June 2001 Top Russian General Calls For Summary Executions A top Russian general, in a interview published today, has called for the public execution without trial of all captured Mujahideen. General Gennady Troshev, commander of Russian troops in the North Caucasus region, told the Russian newspaper Izvestia, “...I’d gather them all on a square and string up the bandits and let them hang, let everyone see.” The Kremlin quickly sought to dismiss the proposal but many feel that the views expressed by Troshev are simply reflective of the hatred and fear felt by Russian troops towards the Chechen people in general and the Mujahideen in particular. Human rights groups and journalists, amongst others, have documented repeated cases of looting, rape, torture, unlawful detention and summary execution of Chechens since the beginning of the conflict. Perhaps, the hatred of many in the Russian military towards the Chechen people is best illustrated by the ongoing trial of colonel Yuri Budanov. Budanov was one the very few Russian soldiers to have been charged with a human rights violation let alone brought to court. In March of 1999, Budanov accompanied by three other Russian soldiers burst into the home of 18 year old Elza Kungaeva at around midnight. A blanket was thrown around the head of Elza and she was dragged to a nearby armoured vehicle. Budanov, who had been drinking heavily that night, ordered his soldiers to leave and to put on loud music to mask Elza’s screams. There she was raped, strangled, and her body mutilated. Earlier that night Budanov had had one of his own soldiers beaten up because he substituted anti-tank shells for high explosive shells in order to reduce casualties when bombing a civilian village. Budanov was described by his own soldiers as frequently drunk and prone to fits of rage. Budanov has since confessed to strangling Elza and seeking to cover up her murder. Yet for many in the Russian military, since the beginning of his trial, Yuri Budanov has become somewhat of a hero. In March 250 Cossacks marched outside his court in Rostov-on-Don in his support. The court had to be moved to the suburbs in an attempt to limit the number of pro-Budanov supporters that gather daily outside. Just over 2 weeks ago, Sergi Ivanov, the Russian defence minister, described Budanov as “a victim of circumstances” and expressed his sympathy for the self-confessed murderer. Moreover, Budanov enjoys support from certain sections of the Russian public, in particular the Russian nationalists. One poll showed 80 percent supported Budanov and 17 percent thought that he was innocent in spite of Budanov’s own confession. General Troshev’s comments perhaps also reveal the frustration of many in the military over their limited success in Chechnya. Troshev reiterated that anyone who leads to the capture of Mujahideen Commander Shamil Basayev would receive 1 million dollars in reward. A similar bounty has been announced twice before and yet, over a year on, the Russian military has singularly failed in its main objective of bringing any senior Mujahideen commander into custody. However, as long as the Mujahideen continue to receive the support of the ordinary Chechen people, the Russian military may find its efforts increasingly futile. [url]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/[/url]
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:13:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CassidyGT: Thanks for the warning - I don't think I'll watch it. I don't really want to see war like that - I may be too chickensh!t to act if I ever needed to. Better not to know.
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I think it's better to know what slime balls will do to you if they catch you. Better to die fighting and take a few out with you. Now go watch it and learn a lesson. :)
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:13:38 PM EDT
I do not know what to say....................... Damn!!! about covers it!!
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:20:57 PM EDT
sawing thru that guys neck is pretty rough t owatch and impossible to forget.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:23:21 PM EDT
I first saw that on 9/21/00, and I have never seen it since. I couldn't even watch it completely, and can never get it out of my mind. BISHOP
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:31:57 PM EDT
Whoa, that was pretty gruesome. What a way to go. Maybe it's easier said than done, but I firmly believe in fighting till the end. Even if you're a goner, at least go knowing you took a few of them with you. There's nothing pretty, nice, or glamorous about war.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:51:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChaZ: The first post about the soldier thinking about his farm home and killing pigs was a futile attempt to shift our feelings toward russian soldier's plight. War is war. I would do everything possible to prevent being caught by enemy if I was a soldier.
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You got that right. The last thing on his mind was killing pigs.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:55:09 PM EDT
Stay strong! Death to all tyrants. If you do not want this done to you or your children first get a relationship with your Creator...God will establish a righteous value system in your life. Second...practice those values: honor, decency, caring for others etc....third: train yourself as an honorable warrior....do not tolerate injustice...defend the innocent...fight against corruption. Finally, when the time comes and evil raise its hand against what is decent, be the toughest mother in the valley. Defense of self and others is an honorable thing. Butchering someone whom you have already defeated is the most disgusting of actions. In a way, the killing of Tim McVeigh is a lot like what is happening in this film. Just with a needle. Have mercy on your defeated foe if you would ever ask mercy for yourself. Yeah! Vietnam still makes me think these thoughts. Sorry, if they are rambling.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:02:57 PM EDT
Jesus: That was bad news. I was not there to understand the context. It is like the photo of the guy getting his brains blown out in Vietnam. It looked like an innocent man was being executed. In reality, the guy had just executed civilian family members of the local police. If some one killed and tortured my men or family, I would cut their head of also. What do you think would happen here if someone threatened our freedom?
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:08:27 PM EDT
I have seen the aftermath of many homicides and suicides in my line of work. The victims appear as snapshots in my mind with no violence attached. But to see an act like this in "real time" video is truly disturbing to me. I am not ashamed to say that I am somewhat nauseous. ........Amen, I say to you, LTVN68!
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 6:20:51 PM EDT by hipwr223]
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:25:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hipwr223: Sad to see how willing man can be to snuff out the life of another in such a callous and cold manner. Seeing crap like that makes me lose all faith in humanity. God I wish the world were a safer more decent place to raise my daughters. Way too much death and despair. Hell I am so shook up I can not even type!
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Sad thing is; you need to be able to be just as brutal to protect your girls if the time comes.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:29:13 PM EDT
What's the big deal? Pretty tame. Cheech's obviously have the Japo attitude. If you surrender instead of dying fighting it out, you are their bitch, and they can do what they want with you, and you have no complaint. Point is, if you have a gun, and you're being overrun, die with your gun in your hand, don't surrender, or you might just die like a hog being slaughtered for breakfast.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:30:24 PM EDT
Ya know....we all like to think we're tough, can take anything....why I don't know, but I must have pushed replay 15-20 times.....I'm a medically retired LEO and I've seen some horribly brutal things, usually after the fact, but what gets to me is the sounds right as its happening...the pictures I've seen hundreds of times......but those moans, grunts..I can still hear them...If you haven't looked yet, one picture will not make you tougher. It is very graphic be warned!! russell
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:30:47 PM EDT
You'd think they would at least have a color camera... (Just trying to lighten the mood)
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:32:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LTVN68: Stay strong! Death to all tyrants. If you do not want this done to you or your children first get a relationship with your Creator...God will establish a righteous value system in your life. Second...practice those values: honor, decency, caring for others etc....third: train yourself as an honorable warrior....do not tolerate injustice...defend the innocent...fight against corruption. Finally, when the time comes and evil raise its hand against what is decent, be the toughest mother in the valley. Defense of self and others is an honorable thing. Butchering someone whom you have already defeated is the most disgusting of actions. In a way, the killing of Tim McVeigh is a lot like what is happening in this film. Just with a needle. Have mercy on your defeated foe if you would ever ask mercy for yourself. Yeah! Vietnam still makes me think these thoughts. Sorry, if they are rambling.
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What he said. Except for McVeigh.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:35:27 PM EDT
Thats awful, I should have listened to the warning and not watched it!
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:38:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 6:36:52 PM EDT by Boom Stick]
I could never be that brutal, even in defense of my family. If I had to kill it would not be like that. When God chose to take someone’s life, it was a quick, painless and no way as disturbing as that sick CRAP! A man touched the ark when he wasn't supposed to, he dropped dead instantly. God was merciful. That soldier was not...That was just plain cruelty. I've seen stuff like that before and wish I'd never seen it, but it reminds me of why I choose to be armed. I feel ill.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:39:16 PM EDT
Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark! Bradd
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:39:28 PM EDT
I didn't find it that disturbing. I see hipwr223's point, but I lost faith in humanity a long time ago. I expect these things and much worse happen on a pretty regular basis all over the world. Here in the US we're fortunate enough to be sheltered from a lot of the bad things, but at the same time, we have a society of people who believe the world is a happy place.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:42:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By qwijibo: I didn't find it that disturbing. I see hipwr223's point, but I lost faith in humanity a long time ago. I expect these things and much worse happen on a pretty regular basis all over the world. Here in the US we're fortunate enough to be sheltered from a lot of the bad things, but at the same time, we have a society of people who believe the world is a happy place.
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Yeah, humanity at times seems like a lost cause. I saw that video months ago and not since. I'd personally rather take a round of 7.62 in the gut than get my throat cut. Scary thing is, our very own JBTs in the near future would willingly do the very same throat cutting on American citizens who don't toe the line like good sheep.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:42:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By oldeschool: What's the big deal? Pretty tame. Cheech's obviously have the Japo attitude. If you surrender instead of dying fighting it out, you are their bitch, and they can do what they want with you, and you have no complaint. Point is, if you have a gun, and you're being overrun, die with your gun in your hand, don't surrender, or you might just die like a hog being slaughtered for breakfast.
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No shit, What would happen if someone invaded this country? It would not be pretty. I am not going to be in the group that gives peace a chance. I bet the other men in that guys unit had second thought about being there. That is the point of total war.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:43:43 PM EDT
This is a pretty good video albeit very grainy. A friend sent it to me a while ago and while a little gory, it shows what can really happen in war. For those who are grossed out, relax, it could have been in color.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:43:56 PM EDT
This video is really intense. [heavy]
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:48:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 6:56:03 PM EDT by Fallschirmjäger]
Well, that's why I always carried one extra .45 round, just in case the 60 was down and I used my three clips. The SF guys warned us before going over to Saudi that the Iraqi's were pretty nasty, but I had read enough about Afghanistan to know you don't surrender. I can see where the video is disturbing, but I don't know, we were trained to slit throats, so at least I found out there's more thrashing involved, and you CAN make one hell of a lot of noise with your throat cut. I don't know the context, so I won't judge the Chechens, but if this guy had done something to somebodies family/village and got caught, well... Anyways, it could be worse! Read what happened to Col. Crawford of the Colonial Militia sometime. Shawnee roasted, not burned, him alive. That lasts a bit longer...
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:22:44 PM EDT
I watched it out of curiosity, and now wish I hadn't. I hope I learned something from watching it. It's scary to see such evil. I'd like to think the soldier had done something much worse than what's depicted and thus deserves his fate; to think that he's some poor bastard who only got separated from his unit is just too much for me to deal with. If I'm ever to be killed in combat, I pray I get 150 grains right to the brain housing, a silent delivery that kills and drops me before the sound even arrives.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:24:54 PM EDT
After many an hour of watching bootlegged "Faced of Death", this doesn't disturb me that much. Still very gruesome though, and wouldn't wish it upon anybody. Just goes to show you...if you're being surrounded by your enemy, and for some reason they aren't shooting you but would rather take you hostage, take your last 30 round magazine, unload 29 upon your enemies, and 1 in your own skull. Or 30 into your enemies, and they'll do it for you. Personally I'd probably chickenshit out and put one humanely into my own head, instead of having dozens of rounds pumped into me by somebody else...but I suppose that might just be me. In any case, if you foresee your own immediate death, the most rational choice is still to make it as quick and painless as possible. Then (assuming you've made your peace with the Big Man) you'll be in a better place. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:28:37 PM EDT
This goes on all over the world. Be thankful that by the grace of God we don't have to put up with that here.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:35:27 PM EDT
Yeah I've seen that clip before. Don't need to see it again. I've heard reports of Chechens doing incredibly brutal things, like sawing captured Russian troops in half with 2-man saws...while the poor SOB is alive and screaming of course. They take videos of these brutal executions and send them to the Russians to discourage/terrify them.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:36:01 PM EDT
I looked at it a few more times, and it's obvious that the guy doing the cutting had done that before, probably many times. That's pretty sick. You'd had to have done some pretty horrible stuff to me and mine to get me that mad at you, that I could cut your throat like that. It makes me wonder just what the Russians did to the Chechans to get them that mad.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:37:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 7:36:32 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Before you all start to feel sorry for the guy keep in mind he must have done something to bring on that kind of revenge. Before you say nobody deserves to die like that, think of what it would take to get you angry enough to cut a mans head off while he is still alive. Run the "what ifs" through your mind and attach them to your family, friends and loved ones. Yes some people do deserve to die that way. The world is a cold place and we are all held accountable for our actions.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:42:55 PM EDT
Whooo! i ve seen alot that did not disturb me but oh man this was SICK and bad! i realize that this happens all over the world. and in america too by murders.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:52:17 PM EDT
makes me hungry for pork sausage
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:53:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:59:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 9:57:59 PM EDT by BigZ]
This happens every day in the USA! It happens in your state, maybe in your city or town! Its called murder. More than 15,000 times each year. People don’t want to believe a Death more gruesome than this occurs not too far from where they live. Adjusted- the number is still awesome
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:21:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By critter_FR: I looked at it a few more times, and it's obvious that the guy doing the cutting had done that before, probably many times. That's pretty sick. You'd had to have done some pretty horrible stuff to me and mine to get me that mad at you, that I could cut your throat like that. It makes me wonder just what the Russians did to the Chechans to get them that mad.
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I am ALWAYS shocked at how uninformed the typical American is, I am somewhat disturbed by how uninformed some of you are on the subject. The Russians started the "playing dirty" in this war. The Chechyns were keeping all of their Rusky POWs as barter chips until the Russians started executing en masse Chechyn rebels. The Russians are fighting what they call "Total War" which means that any Chechyn, woman, man, child, elderly, is the enemy. I've seen worse than this on [url]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/[/url]. Their videos are down now, but in a month or so, you can see streaming video of their encounters. You'll notice in the older videos they would take POW's, now they torture and kill. As wicked as that is, it was done for the camera effect and the guy went out without too much suffering. Imagine being burned alive for 24 hours. GI's in VietNam experienced worse. If someone killed my family, they would see much much worse. Every time you hear someone on one of our boards calling for Revolution, show them that link and see if they aren't a little more eager to protest, rally, vote, etc.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:37:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChaZ: [url]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/html/articlesexecution.htm[/url] Interesting article on why they think their executions are permissable... -[blue]ChaZ[/blue][img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/skull.gif[/img]
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Yeah, good point there. Hey, I'm no Chechyn fan, just not a Rusky fan either. For all of you Religious zealots out there, read the "justification" that the Chechyns give, remove the word muslim, replace christian, remove allah and replace Jesus and you'll start to see how you look to agnostics. Not a flame, just an observation.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:39:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:42:33 PM EDT
Many people soldiers can grant mercy. But many cultures believe that only God can grant mercy. If your enemy does not believe in mercy, you will lose if you dont use the same weapons/tactics he employs. Especially in the urban type enviornment! This film clip is a great training aid for any soldier. No soldier wants to go to war, for it is the soldier who knowes what war is alike. The politicians send soldiers and then ask soldiers to act within moral boundaries, boundaries which lose their borders once you have seen your fellow soldiers and other civilians being killed. No more war! But if we must, pull out all stops!
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:43:56 PM EDT
Many people soldiers can grant mercy. But many cultures believe that only God can grant mercy. If your enemy does not believe in mercy, you will lose if you dont use the same weapons/tactics he employs. Especially in the urban type enviornment! This film clip is a great training aid for any soldier. No soldier wants to go to war, for it is the soldier who knowes what war is alike. The politicians send soldiers and then ask soldiers to act within moral boundaries, boundaries which lose their borders once you have seen your fellow soldiers and other civilians being killed. No more war! But if we must, pull out all stops!
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:49:09 PM EDT
Hip223, you obviously have never lost a close family member to violence. Russia is a big country, Chechyna is a small one. To win they must make the Russian people so sick of this war that they will refuse to fund it and will refuse to send their sons. If you saw video of this happening to American boys week in and week out let's say in Columbia, would you burn your draft card? I would. This is why this man was killed in this way, for propaganda purposes. Folks, go to yahoo, type in Chechyna, and just start reading some of the BBC, CNN, ABC, etc., news that comes out of that place. What Russia is doing is just as appalling. Tonight on the History Channel, I saw a preview for tomorrow night's Vietnam show and an African American GI was commenting, "We were killing so regularly you thought nothing more of it than drinking a coke," or something close to that. Picture your entire family, extended family, friends, loved ones, you dog, your cat, your wife, children, house. Imagine a squad of guys coming in and shooting, raping, cutting, burning. Everyone dies, but you manage to escape. Are you telling me that when you catch up to them you are going to give them a pat on the head? If you know there are more coming, you are going to be cruel and take video of it to send to their loved ones.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:56:14 PM EDT
[b]Ticonderoga[/b] None of the mujahideen videos are worse than that. I have the CD-ROM's.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 9:02:03 PM EDT
For all of you Religious zealots out there, read the "justification" that the Chechyns give, remove the word muslim, replace christian, remove allah and replace Jesus and you'll start to see how you look to agnostics. Not a flame, just an observation.
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I agree. If I see or hear the words religion and war in the same sentence, I instantly think of the word- CRACKPOT! I couldn't think of a worst reason to fight/kill for. Also, do you think these videos are going to help there cause? And scare the Russians? Please.If anything, it will only piss them off more. I am sure the Russians are no saints, but I do not see any of them filming these sick murders. Screw it- victory for Russians...Send in the gunships.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 9:05:22 PM EDT
After watching this, I could only come up with one question..... Why would they film this?
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 9:21:08 PM EDT
I have been trying to load this many times now. I have a somewhat crappy DSL line but when I open the link up it goes to say 14-17% downloaded and then just stops. Operation times out! What the hell am I doing wrong?
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 9:24:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChaZ:
Originally Posted By WhoMe?: After watching this, I could only come up with one question..... Why would they film this?
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Or the question should be... why would we watch it? -[blue]ChaZ[/blue][img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/skull.gif[/img]
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Equally good point........
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