ive dressed deer out no problem i do not bat an eye! but this man. maybe iam just getting to soft for my age. i just look at life different
i guess.


[b]Or the question should be... why would we watch it?

-ChaZ[/b] because we's one sick puppy's on here!

Damn! That's brutal. This is just as bad as the unedited version of the famous Vietnamese slaying of a VC guerrilla during the TET offense.  I wonder how many pissed off Russian soliders are going after the rebels?

OK I though you guys where only joking because all I got at first was some looney toons thing with people getting smashed but I saw the real film after that and boy does it make you want to go and than a Vet for what they have done so that are country is not like that. But all in all it was a very educational film on how to properly cut a guys head off. Sorry this stuff does not bother me that much after working at a hospital for 3 years and seeing 5 year olds come in looking like they have been hit with a truck (But my drunk husband did not do it.) and after seeing a woman how hacked her arm off with a meat clever trying to kill her self and a poor woman how had a deer fly through her widow of her car and snapped her neck and almost take it off this is nothing.

Well folks,

I just had a sandwich before watching this vid, and I really didn't feel queasy.  I was shocked, and watched it several times over.  Makes me glad that I live here and I thank those who strive to keep our country from sliding into that kind of chaos.

dont watch it, i wish i wasnt a curious bastard.

To those who think it would justifiable to carpet bomb a city to put down resisters to gun confication just imagine that being your father, brother, or son after being captured by the relatives of the "collateral damage" you caused. War is not a video game.

Well, I guess that pretty much sums it up.

I am not going to download this because I think I saw this video a few months ago and it made me sick then.  The version I saw only showed it up to the point that the knife went into the neck.  Does this one go beyond that?  Just curious, I don't want to see it again.  Upset me for several days.  War is hell times 10

patsue

Lesson for today kids is DON'T GET CAUGHT BY THE ENEMY!!!!

Yep there's grunting, moaning, sputtering, cutting, and sawing.  I just kind of go into a "medical mode” when I see this sort of stuff.  I just kind of think "yup, there's his guts."

War is hell, and in war you must kill your enemy, but I know that I could not answer to my creator if I murdered a captured soldier in such a way.  Then again, this propaganda type of footage may be the only effective method left for them to defend their lives.  I'm not in their shoes and I'm glad for that.

Be careful with what you let into your mind.
I admit I clicked on that link to satisify morbid curiosity, but that was my fault, and I am reminded why I turned my back on that. I use to think there was nothing wrong with watching death movies and satisifying morbid curiosity, but now I am reminded how unhealthy it is.

Our troop leaders may feel the need to show that stuff, but there is enought out there already that darkens the souls of young troops. I saw death in the gulf, but this is pushing the boundaries.  That video was meant for their enemy, because it's suppose to send a message.  That message has no place outside of war.
 

That's a damn shame, and I mean that.  Cynicism is a dangerous thing.  I have no idea the context surrounding that execution so I cannot really comment on what motivated the executioners- I, like the rest of us, was extremely disturbed by the video.  My point, however, is this:  Your detached, cynical  perspective is the same used by countless executioners throughout history.  I'm definately NOT saying you are capable of anything like this, however, it is a slippery slope and I would hope most of that statement was to prove a point that we are spoiled- BTW, I totally agree with you on that.  Most of my posts on "The Revolution is HERE!"-type threads reflect that.

Up until this point, the choo choo train was the most graphic/sick video I have ever seen.

Do I want to overwrite the train with another death?

Hell no.

Thanks for the advice.

This stuff does happen here in the US, doesn't anyone remeber OJ Simpson?

I say bring it on and let everybody see it.  These are the stark realities of our world and needless to say I'm not sure we've made all that far from the slime pits we crawled out of.
This is evil in a pure form, and if we don't confront them face to face, we'll sneak up on you from behind.  These things and worse have been going on since time immemorial and will continue long after us, so I say suck it up, look at it, come to grips with the depths that our 'fellow man' can sink to.

I think OJ is selling that video on his web site.

I watched it twice...  Knowing he got what he deserved made me insensitive.... If he had been an innocent bystander, woman or child
it would have affected me.  Videos like this will harden you for what may lie in our own future...  The Chinese are ruthless basturds in War time....

Really?  Seven guys all lined up and then shot?  They knew it was coming, you could see the look of fear on their faces, just as much terror, just as much pain.  It takes as long to die shot through the heart as it does having your neck cut open.

I do believe that most people are more afraid of knives than guns and thats because most of us have been cut before but never shot.  I think you are making the same confusion.

"This goes on all over the world. Be thankful that by the grace of God we don't have to put up with that here."

Yet...

you have obviously no clue about the situation happening over there. seeing the video just reminded me of my bedtime stories when i was young. i learned first-hand what it means to be an enemy of the USSR and now, russia. the uniforms have changed, but the mindset is the same. they consider their enemies at war to be inferior. they drum up international support by calling them bandits, terrorists. my family (what's left of them) were also "bandits" in the eyes of russians. Question: what makes it right for all other soviet satellites to become sovereign nations upon the USSR's collapse, EXCEPT chechnya??? if these evil, drunk, underpayed, glorified looters entered MY lands and called ME a terrorist, you better believe that they would meet much the same fate. the video was made to scare the russians into backing down. and its working! the russian soldiers mothers are not even being told the truth about casualty figures, they are organizing as we speak, they are demanding the return of their sons from this UNJUST war. think about it, they have lied so often, and so repetatively to the world, that the world is convinced that the russians are dealing with a civil, internal war! NOT TRUE! the chechens NEVER wanted to be under the spectre of russian rule. and they have NEVER officially recognized the rule of the USSR, OR RUSSIA.

please do not EVER say "screw it, let the russians win" again, you are doing yourself, chechen FREEDOM FIGHTERS and my family a great injustice, you sound like a moron, and i will not tolerate irresponsibility like that.

Color and better lighting.

War...

Speechless.............thoughtless...............empty. It's easy for someone to justify why on a board, but in reality what is the difference between the Chechens and Russians if they are both committing atrocities of this nature? I think most of us could take life in certain circumstances, but this? I don't think I want to face my Creator or myself with something like this. If it's necessary to kill then kill but don't lose your humanity in the process.

Jesus...I don't really have words to say exactly how that made me feel.  War and the things it makes people do is definately a terrible thing.

the difference is: the chechens LIVE THERE! the russians are EVIL INVADERS! i did NOT learn this from a board...see my thread above.

the chechens, facing COMPLETE annihilation, are not exactly concerned with "humanity" or any other pretty word we comfy-couch sitters come up with. they are losing a war of FREEDOM and LIBERTY, do these words mean anything to any americans out there??? why am i the only only one outraged by the russian deceptions??

I won't comment on the film.  But fattyM4, there are those of us who do understand Freedom and Liberty.  Like you, we feel the same exasperated horror while others hide their heads.  You are not the only one who knows how the Russians work.

TO EVERYONE ELSE.  Do not allow yourself to be programmed and conditioned to think that Liberty and Freedom are not worth the small horror you see on this video.  Watch it and understand that the freedom fighters of this era MUST fight this way.  War has changed since the American revolution.  When faced with such overwhelming odds, one may choose between the terrifying killing of war, or the soul breaking crush of tyranny.

I am not religious, yet I pray that I never have to fight like this for my Freedom.

I was dumbstruck..  I did not let my girlfriend see it, even though she wanted to.

I would fight a war if needed to be fought id really make sure i do not let my self be caught.

Moad_Dib, thank you for your well-written show of support for liberty! it is reassuring to know that i am indeed not alone in my rage and my quest for truth.

Damn it!!! I should have read the replies.

I now have a new keyboard. I didn't feel like washing the puke out of my old one.

[puke]

You are welcome.  But my words cannot begin to compare with the words of those who came before me.

Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.
Cicero

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.
John Adams

Men regard it as their right to return evil for evil - and if they cannot, feel they have lost their liberty.
Aristotle

Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.
George Washington

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Eternal Vigilance is the price of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

For what avail the plough or sail, Or land or life, if freedom fail?
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.
Henry David Thoreau

But, I thought the Chechen rebels were valiant "freedom fighters"!!!?

I also thought they would establish a "kinder gentler" Islamic Republic when they gained their "freeedom".  You know, like the "kinder gentler" Islamic Republic they have in Afghanistan.

Gee, now I'm starting to suspect that the Mujahadeen might be a bunch of psychopaths.

Oh, I'm so disillusioned!

BIG TONGUE IN CHEEK!  DaMan

When your country is invaded by a civilized nation, you fight the good fight, but if you loose, you give up.  That's how it's supposed to work.  But now we have 'Jihads' and other bullshit.  Keep on fighting!  Kill the bastards in the city streets!

Who do they think they are hurting?  For every Russian soldier they kill, the Russians kill hundreds of Chechens.  If you conquer a city that refuses to surrender, you bomb it into the stone age.  Whose fault is that?  Yours?  Or the righteous morons that refused to see the light and give up?

If you want someone to blame for what the Russians do in Chechnya, blame the Chechen rebels.  They fought the good fight, and pretty well at that, and then they lost.  By refusing to see that and hiding among their own civilian population like cowards, they are directly responsible for what happens there.  

Why didn't the Germans massacre the French in WWII?

We witness the realities of war when your homeland is involved, and regard for human life means nothing to you. Seeing first hand the brutalities that people commit on each other, and family members, this was just taken as another example of how people loose grip with basic humanity.

In Vietnam there were similiar act committed by our own troops at times in the bush, but they were never filmed. Don't think that we are immune from doing the same thing. If our country is ever attacked, and those of us who remain are fighting for our very existence, then the gloves will come off and this form of retribution could be committed.

The question for those that felt quesy about this clip. If they come for you and your guns, and you get into a close quarter fight, can you handle the thoughs of heads exploding if you will truly defend your rights as so many of you state that you will. I am not talking about what we witnessed on the clip, I am talking about a basic close quarter battle. The realities of war is that many die in horrid ways, and that is simply a fact of battle.

I saw the clip last summer.  I didn't hardly sleep that night.  I have never watched it again.  It really bothered me deep down inside, and I will warn anyone against watching it.

ronnie

I got through about 1/3 of the video. Now I know, I am an armchair warrior........Im still feeling sick....

Man that was a shock.  

It worries me that we justify this as the cost of Liberty. There are necessary evils of war. Men and women are killed, and we are asked to die as a price for our Liberty. But once we start down the road of the same atrocities as our enimies, are freedom and liberty are already lost.

War crimes and POW's must meet thier punishment, but after due justice.  You get upset when you think about the ATF coming in your house and violating your rights, but then you justify this saying ohhh the Russians have done horible things.  NOTHING the Russians or chechen or Viet Cong have ever done justify what I saw.  

We (US) are supposed to be the light of freedom... we are better than what I saw on that clip.  That is what sepperates us from from them. So what do you do when you trade one side's brutality for another..

It is one thing to die in battle, or to kill in battle.  You are fighting a person with a weapon who is trying to kill you.  Yes, people die in gruesome ways, but on some level all of us understand that.

Then we have what we saw here today.  A helpless man, no weapon, no reason to kill him.  Not only was he executed, which by itself can also be understood on some level, but he was brutally killed so that a gruesome video could be created.  While he was being killed, people in the background were discussing details of the taping with normal, calm voices. There was no regard for life, humanity, or anything else.

The Chechens did not start the war..they provoked it.  They did not surrender when they lost, and are now fighting a war of terrorism becuase they cannot win conventionaly.  Such is the way of Islamic Jihads.  We can do anything we want to the enemy becuase Allah says we are right and we will go to heaven by slaughtering those that don't believe as we do.

Maybe I'm wrong for feeling this way, but I say victory to the Russians.  We Americans were not exactly saints in Vietnam, but we all said victory to us anyway, and I agreed.  End this Jihad and all others like it.  Even if it takes a couple of hundred megatons.

ok, i disagree with everything you just said.

1) the french were not massacred because MOST became fascist, sell-out, sympathizers
2)the chechens have not lost, in fact, this is the SECOND time the russkis are there - i believe they are in fact WINNING.
3) if we americans ever have to fight the good fight, and you give up on us, may the horrible fate of cowards find you!
3) in a "total" war, the civilians become the combatants, nobody is hiding behind them in the cities
4) the only "responsible" parties are the soldiers, who travelled how many hundreds of miles to invade a country that, like it or not, DESERVES LIKE ANY OTHER TO BE FREE!
5) "for every russian killed, hundreds of chechens die" WHO ARE THE BARBARIANS????

go goose-step your ideas elsewhere "comrade"

I elected to not watch it.  The discription was good enough.

>1) the french were not massacred because MOST became fascist, sell-out, sympathizers

The French were not massacred because they surrendered and partisan rebels did not hide among civilian populations.  They knew the price of retaliation if they did.  The Chechens apparently forgot.  Or nobody ever taught them until now.

2)the chechens have not lost, in fact, this is the SECOND time the russkis are there - i believe they are in fact WINNING.

Winning?  The Russians won the war when they took Grozny.  The Chechens are winning the propaganda battle, as you so clearly demonstrate.

3) if we americans ever have to fight the good fight, and you give up on us, may the horrible fate of cowards find you!

If you lose, you give up.  Until you lose, you fight to the last man.  If you lose and don't give up, everyone they kill trying to get to you might as well have been killed by your own hands.  This is what you and Chechens can't seem to comprehend.

3) in a "total" war, the civilians become the combatants, nobody is hiding behind them in the cities

The civilians only became combatants when Chechen "freedom fighters" starting hiding among them.  If you look at the early days of the war, the Russians were pretty careful about civilian casualties.  Then of course, following your brilliant never surrender logic, things changed.

4) the only "responsible" parties are the soldiers, who travelled how many hundreds of miles to invade a country that, like it or not, DESERVES LIKE ANY OTHER TO BE FREE!

There is no such thing as deserves to be free in this world.  We are free because we are strong.  There are many weak nations that are free because they don't piss anyone off and make friends with their strong neighbors.  Why do you think the Russians invaded Checnya?  Because they woke up one day and said "Hey Boris, I'm bored today.  Let's go conquer somebody!  Einie menie minie moe.."

5) "for every russian killed, hundreds of chechens die" WHO ARE THE BARBARIANS????

Those would be the ones who fail to follow the guidelines of a civilized war.

What do you expect the Russians to do?  They take a city.  Some Chechens fire bomb a barrack and then go hide in the homes in the city.  Do you expect the Russians to say "well, gee, we can't go after them because they are hiding among women and children.  I sure wish they would stop doing that"???

So the question is, when the Russians blow up half of the homes in the city looking for these rebels, whose fault is that? The Russians?  Or the cowards that hid there in the first place?  If these noble freedom fighters didn't want their civilians killed, they could have gone into hiding in the mountains or forrests, where the Russians would have had a jolly old time hunting them down.

with all due respect, ed, i whole-heartedly disagree with your assessment. do you think that there can be a "polite" or "clean" version of war???
these people are hanging on by their fingernails just to survive as a people! surrender is not an option, because that would bring them back to "great" and "glorious" days of russian domination, under which, they were brutalized, starved, deported, stripped of basic liberties, and outright killed en-masse.

these are NOT trained soldiers, indoctrinated with ideas like "honor" or "glory" they are just ordinary citizens, fed up with 80+ years of  represion, murder and torture. how can any of us judge how we will, or even how we SHOULD react, thank god, we as americans have not had to recently. and truthfully, my heart goes out to the F-R-E-E-D-O-M fighters all over the world, and i shall never judge them by their tactics of war, only by the BRAVERY of their fight.

There can be such a thing as a cleaner war.

The Chechens are fighting a war of brutality aimed at scaring the Russians off.  They are doing some pretty rotten things to accomplish this.  They do not HAVE to fight this way.  They could, at the risk of sounding cheezy, fight with honor.  They could treat POWs according to the rules of the Geneva convention.  They could do this no matter what the Russians do, if they were in fact better than the Russians.

As they choose to fight the way they do, they get no sympathy from me, and none from a whole lot of people who follow the events there.

When the Russians do get fed up and carpet bomb Chechnya until there is nothing left of the entire country but smoky black soil, I will not be surprised.

You do realize that the soldier is technically still alive when his head is removed. What they don't tell you is that it takes hours to die and that you are still aware of everything going on around you because your brain is intact and still functioning. So when the remove his head he is thinking "oh shit, this is really happening, they chopped my fucking head off" . Nobody tells you the truth about dying because it would upset people knowing their loved ones experienced everything.

Bill Wallace,
1)of course nobody taught the chechens history, THEY LIVE IN A REPRESSED SOCIETY, IN WHICH THE RUSSIANS CONTROL MEDIA AND EDUCATION!
2)the russians took grozny, yet every day, more russians die! doesn't seem over to me!
3)national pride was around longer than you or i. they don't want their language and culture to disappear any more than you and i.
4)russia invaded chechnia because it was the only break-away republic which stood without world support - because in a racist world, arabs are not very popular.
5)guidelines??? civilized war??? don't even make  me laugh! what a joke!
6) they ARE hiding in the mountains, and it seems sad to me that someone who's posts i've read before, and respected, now believes everything he hears.

the RUSSIAN media is telling us anything guys like you want to hear, to justify their war of aggression. PLEASE do not fall for this tactic, it took 80 years to bring it to light, and you and those like you will undo everything many people have died to show us.

Why wasn't NATO bombing Moscow in an effort to help the Chechens, just like when they bombed Belgrade to help the Albanians?

good question, imbroglio!!
why has the world turned its back on this situation????