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Posted: 6/6/2001 10:42:24 PM EDT
The military police soldiers chasing after the A-Team used the M16A1 assault rifle as their primary weapon. Many companies produced the M16A1 for the United States government, from Colt Manufacturing to [b]Mattel[/b] (!). The M16A1 is a fully automatic rifle chambered in .223 Remington (or 5.56x45mm NATO). I think this is BS!
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:02:19 PM EDT
No, according to the word I get Mattel had a contract to produce the M-16. Singer Sewing Machine, and Remington Rand Typewriter Company had contracts to produce the 1911-A1
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:03:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M15A2: The military police soldiers chasing after the A-Team used the M16A1 assault rifle as their primary weapon. Many companies produced the M16A1 for the United States government, from Colt Manufacturing to [b]Mattel[/b] (!). The M16A1 is a fully automatic rifle chambered in .223 Remington (or 5.56x45mm NATO). I think this is BS!
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I think that the Mattel bit is an Urban Myth. Matty Mattel was a character doll from Mattel and I believe that there was also a complete line of toys with the same name. Since the M16 was made largely of plastic, instead of wood and steel like a real gun, it was derisively called "Matty Mattel."
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:09:01 PM EDT
The plastic butt stocks were made by Mattel.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:13:46 PM EDT
Not sure about parts being actually made by Mattel... I'd be intrested to know. I believe the M16/Mattel reference comes from frontline grunts in Vietnam... Because of all the plastic on the weapon.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:15:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 1:54:43 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]
Ahhh... the source of much confusion. [img]http://home.earthlink.net/~thegardenweasel/toym16.jpg[/img] [:P]
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 3:55:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 4:05:39 AM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
I'd like to know, too. I think that this is an urban legend cooked up by the M16's detractors. However, my brother who was active duty in the Army (knothead of the family, the rest of us were Navy), swears up and down that he saw Mattel marked M16s. I'll believe it when I see it.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 4:03:26 AM EDT
I can see that a lot of you guys did not searv. When i was in the army the M16s in my unit where made by several companys, sutch as Mattel, GM, Colt, Sears, ett.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 4:07:16 AM EDT
Actually, I was in the Nasty Guard and completed basic training at Ft. Dix (before I got wise and navular). Out of the hundreds of M16A1s that I saw and handled, there were only three manufacturers that I saw: Colt's, H&R, and GM (Hydramatic Division). Mattel wasn't one of them.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 4:42:31 AM EDT
Urban Legend.. It was nicknamed Matte Mattel M16 because it felt like a toy compared to previous battle rifles.. None were ever manufactured by Mattel. Rick
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 4:55:43 AM EDT
Never in three years did I ever see anything but Colt and GM in the M16 racks.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:47:11 AM EDT
Boy, how politically incorrect is that Mattel ad? If they were to run that ad today, there would be no end to the Congressional hearings about it. Eric The(NoEndToCourtHearingsEither)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 5:59:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 5:58:19 AM EDT by GovtThug]
This is kind of uncanny. I was just having this conversation with another SFC yesterday. He swears that when he was at Ft. Knox, he had an A1 that was made by Mattel, it was marked right on the lower. I told him it was a myth, that Mattel never made M-16s. Anyone have definitive info on this?
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:02:26 AM EDT
Well there is a fair amount of PLASTIC used in an M16! Seriously, during WWII Ford Motor Co manufactured bombers and Singer made some 45s so I suppose its OK for Mattel to make M16s
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:10:59 AM EDT
I've been told that Harrington & Richardson also made M-16s
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:18:53 AM EDT
IF Mattel did manufacture M16A1's, I sure hope they did NOT mark the lowers with Mattel as the manufacturer. That would be bad for kids or adults. "Lets see, oh, its a toy, see Mattel printed right on the side, BANG! Uh-Oh!!!!!!" Is Mattel the top of that company, or is there a "Parent" company, that might be the cause of all the confusion? i.e. The parent company made some rifles, and soldiers connected the parent company with the Mattel name.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:39:39 AM EDT
Hey, IBM made M2 carbines. I've seen a couple of them for sale. Guess everyone pitched in and changed production for WW II.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:54:09 AM EDT
According to the book "The Black Rifle", by Stevens/Ezell there were no M16'S by Mattel, well worth the money if you are into this forum..
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:57:54 AM EDT
Mattel made a plastic full size toy M16.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 6:58:18 AM EDT
Boomer, Here's what I remember: We were sitting down as a platoon doing some rifle maintenance. The guy to my left had the rifle in question. Either I looked at it or he showed me, it was stamped with "Mattel" in small plain letters and the whole emblem looked kind of plain. I think it was on the left side of the receiver, either above the trigger or on the mag well, and I think there was a circle next to it. I remember thinking "No shit. Glad that ain't my rifle." I had never heard the rumours you mentioned. I was in the NG from 86-88 (M16a1's) and active Marine Corps 88-92 (A2's). Like I said. It could be a hoax. Maybe the guy had heard the rumour and stamped it in as a joke. Maybe an armorer did it. Since I had never heard the rumour I didn't think much more about it. In fact I never heard about the rumour until this summer, 8 years after I saw it. I don't put a lot of faith in my memory, and I don't recommend you do either. I don't think it's too important whether Mattel did or did not make rifles. But I do think it is important that judgement be witheld for cases like this. An analogous example would be the existence of aliens. Just as you don't believe in Mattel rifles, I don't believe in aliens and probably for similar reasons. I have never seen an alien, and I don't know anyone who has, and I have a hard time seeing how they could exist but can very easily see how they don't exist. And yet there are people who claim to have seen them. Sooo, all I can really say is I haven't seen them and don't think they exist. It would be inappropriate for me to declare positively that they don't exist, can't exist, and won't exist; to say people are on drugs; or are liars. Anyway, I hope you see my point. I am less concerned about Mattel and more concerned about how people come to their conclusions and what they do with the conclusions they do come to.
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This is an e-mail that was sent to me the last time the issue of Mattel built M16's came up. I do not personally question the integrity of this person or the validity of their claim, but I do wonder about the accuracy of it or the legitimacy of any Mattel marking on the rifle, especially in the late 80s-early 90s. It seems to me that a reward was even offered at one time for conclusive proof of a Mattel manufactured M16 and has yet to be collected. You would think that at least photographs of such a relatively novel item would exist. I know that had a been sent to Vietnam and handed some newfangled rifel from the makers of the Barbie doll I damn sure would have taken a few pics and documented it. I do not believe that ANY M16s OR PARTS for them were ever produced by Mattel at any time.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:06:08 AM EDT
M-16A1 were manufactured under govt contract by: Colt Hydramatic div of GM Harrington and Richardson That's it, no others. It is possible that the H&R logo was mistaken for the Mattel trademark. Hydramatics had no logo, just text. More than likely though it's just a story that's been told so many times that people believe in it to the point of saying they saw one. Later M-16 series were manufactured by: Colt FN Bushmaster? (I've heard of people seeing them, but I haven't) Overseas manufacturers: Elisco Tool (Phillipeens) Pusan Arsenal (ROK) (Later bought by Daewoo) Diemaco (Canada) Norinco (PRC)(not licensed and may not be compatible) Chartered Industries of Singapore (Singapore, duh) Sure, there's alot of companies that have contracted to make weapons. Continental Can, Guide Lamp, Smith-Corona, IBM, Rockola, National Postal Meter, Underwood, Singer, Saginaw Steering Gear, Union Switch and Signal, International Harvester, AC Spark Plug, are just ones I can name off the top of my head. Mattel isn't one of those though. There were no M-16s made by Mattel. It's an urban myth spawned by the ad above and grown as they all do. Ross
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:21:22 AM EDT
My issued M16 rifle was a Colt (Mekong Delta 67-68). I suspect that most military firearms, weapon systems, magazines, etc. were manufactured by the "Lowest Bidder". Mattel would have been a "High Bidder". Magazines I think were made by "Minority" owned companies.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:44:09 AM EDT
I just went to Mattel's site and got their address for inquiries (no emails). I wrote them a letter so that this question can be put to rest once and for all. I wish the person who posted the reference from "Black Rifle" would post that reference and quote in its entirety. I think that book will be added to my summer reading list.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:49:52 AM EDT
Hey, Jim Dandy, I went to their website about 45 minutes ago and got their phone #. I called their PR dept and left a message. They just called me back and said that they definitely did NOT make M-16s (not real ones, anyway). The woman I spoke to was quite amused about the whole thing, and that the myth has been circulating the military for years. I guess you can save yourself a 34¢ stamp.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:51:32 AM EDT
What about D.P.M.S. and compass lake engineering?
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 7:52:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Boy, how politically incorrect is that Mattel ad? If they were to run that ad today, there would be no end to the Congressional hearings about it. Eric The(NoEndToCourtHearingsEither)Hun[>]:)]
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How cool would that be?....[frag]
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:27:34 AM EDT
GovtThug- I saw the number, but I wanted to get something on Mattel's letterhead that'll silence the believers in this myth once and for all. Whenever I get the letter, I'll scan it and post it somewhere.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:47:50 AM EDT
my ex-mother in law (satan) sold all her shares of mattel in the late 60' as protest for their involvement with developing the plastic furniture for the ar15. remember - back then armalite was in hollywood calif. and mattel was/is still in el segundo calif. very close to each other. think about it for a second - if you need to develop hi tech (for the time) plastics- who would you develop as a resource? steve ps g.weasel - bitchin ad! a friend of mine used to have one - he brought it to school one day (the american school in hong kong 1971) and it was confiscated in about 5 minutes- his parents were called and it was given back to him after class - if this happened today - he would be expelled! and lawyers would be involved, dan rather would be talking about it! kids can't be kids anymore!! what a shame....
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:54:12 AM EDT
In the 1960's the stocks were molded by mattel toy company, the reason was simple, it was because Mattel was the biggest manufacturer of molded phenolic plastics in the country at the time. The current stocks are nylon on the A2 version. Mattel lost the contract because the stocks they made proved to be fragile.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:55:19 AM EDT
M-1 Carbine was made by Rockola -- a mfg of jukeboxes. How cool is that? I still think Mattel made a REAL M-16.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 8:58:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 9:07:44 AM EDT
it is my understanding, that mattel, did NOT manufacture m-16's. they DID however manufacture some of the plastic parts for them (such as the origional pistol grip, and buttstock) these parts were only used on the origional m-16, not the a1 or a2. not sure but i believe the gm weapons had these parts on them..
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 9:27:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2001 9:26:10 AM EDT by platform389]
"I wish the person who posted the reference from "Black Rifle" would post that reference and quote in its entirety. I think that book will be added to my summer reading list." I wasn't the person, but let's see what my copy of The Black Rifle provides... Chapter 17 Pages 277-282 "The Great Rights Issue-The "Politics of Procurement" Talks about Colt's reluctance to allow other suppliers to provide rifles to the Army. Chapter 18 Pages 283-289 "Broadening The Black Rifle's Wartime Production Base" Talks about other companies attempting to get in rifle production during Vietnam "Nine Firms made $1000 bid deposits to receive initial TDP and two M16A1 rifles. Those firms making bid deposits are as follows: 1 Aeronutronics Division of Philco-Ford 2 FTS Corporation 3 General Electric, Springfield Armory operation 4 General Motors Hydramatic Division 5 Harington & Richardson, Inc 6 Physical Sciences Corporation 7 Stetson Ross Mfg, Co. 8 Olin-Mathieson, Winchester Division 9 ZD Products" No mention of Mattel at all, as you can see. If you have the rifle, you need this book. But beware, it is not light reading.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 10:18:55 AM EDT
Jim Dandy, That's a great (dare I say, a Jim Dandy) idea. Keep us advised when you get the reply letter.
Link Posted: 6/7/2001 11:41:56 AM EDT
They are re-running "The M-16" on the history channel tonight at 10pm. I will keep my eyes peeled for a Mattel logo. I don't think I'll see one. [size=1]The most powerful assault rifle ever used in combat, the M-16 became the symbol of our lost war--Vietnam--and can easily be called America's most unloved gun. Yet, 30 years after its introduction, it stands as a potent icon of U.S. military strength worldwide. We'll explain how it almost ended up on the scrap heap! TV G [/size=1]
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 7:11:05 PM EDT
Here's the letter that I received from Mattel today regarding this. Not exactly as detailed as I had hoped for, but here it is just the same. Hope you all can read it without straining your eyes too much:[img]http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0OAAAAEIUhzj38759d33YZfZxtBB*WqreEGwvFIl9xV4e­6rM7juFaPAn0vLgxn1UXbJkgesaHqqdGnOX7LrQAtZRjk­xiUY5MY/Mattel.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 7:27:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2001 7:34:48 PM EDT by gt6plus]
I have witnessed first hand an M16A1, issued to me personally at Ft McClellan Alabama in Oct of 1988, that I qualified with, That was manufactured by Mattel. We also had a few that were made by the Turbo-HydroMatic Division of G.M. these were marked on the lower receiver by the companies. I wished I had paid more attention to the different types of lower receivers...... These companies may not have manufactured complete M16's but they sure as hell made parts for them..... I carried that Rifle from October to February and nobody can tell me that the lower reciever didn't say Mattel on it.
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 7:37:57 PM EDT
My brother still has that plastic m16 made by mattel, and it still works. It's in excellent condition and makes a lot of noise. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow and post it here. My parents bought all 3 of us one but I think I busted my up as I beat someone with it in the 60's pretending I was fighting a war.
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 7:46:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gt6plus: I have witnessed first hand an M16A1, issued to me personally at Ft McClellan Alabama in Oct of 1988, that I qualified with, That was manufactured by Mattel.
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So, just what were you smoking at Ft McClellan? [:P] Mattel [b]never[/b] made M16s. Ever. There's always been the rumor that because of their plastic manufacturing they made furniture, but no one has ever found any evidence that Mattel was ever a subcontractor on M16 parts. The funny thing is people still insist they've seen Mattel lower receivers. I don't know how you can associate plastic injection molding with aluminum forging, machining, and anodizing. Last time I looked, Barbie was made of polymers, not non-ferrous metals. Put down the crack pipe, dude! BTW - I did have a Mattel M16! It was the toy in the ad. It was so kewl - it had a cocking handle on the right side that you pulled back to load the spring. But you could run it forward and pull it back again and again, over a dozen times! After that you pulled the trigger and it seemed to fire forever!! After a while I just plain wore the damn thing out, and my parents were so sick of the noise that they wouldn't buy me another one. Somehow it just wasn't as fun without the sound. [:(]
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 7:48:43 PM EDT
John Wayne, is that you?? FITTER out
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 8:10:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Mattel made a plastic full size toy M16.
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Damn- I had one- silver plastic with black stock and handguard- it seemed big, but looking in a photo album recently, it was full size- would look small on me today. When did I get it? 1969, I think. It really did go "R-r-r-r", in bursts, as I recall- the noisemaker was in a very fat, but short, curved magazine. I had lots of fun playing with it with friends. None of us ever dreamed up or played at shooting up a school, however. We just wanted to be the good guys.
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 8:39:04 PM EDT
I want to buy one.
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 8:41:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gt6plus: I have witnessed first hand an M16A1, issued to me personally at Ft McClellan Alabama in Oct of 1988, that I qualified with, That was manufactured by Mattel. We also had a few that were made by the Turbo-HydroMatic Division of G.M. these were marked on the lower receiver by the companies. I wished I had paid more attention to the different types of lower receivers...... These companies may not have manufactured complete M16's but they sure as hell made parts for them..... I carried that Rifle from October to February and nobody can tell me that the lower reciever didn't say Mattel on it.
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You are an idiot! Here is the test: If Mattel made M-16's, they would be considered collectors items. You would find production numbers and posted prices for a "Mattel". Now go back to your bong and tell us about how you saw Big Foot riding the Lochness Monster.
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 8:47:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2001 9:06:34 PM EDT by gt6plus]
Originally Posted By QCMGR: You are an idiot! Here is the test: If Mattel made M-16's, they would be considered collectors items. You would find production numbers and posted prices for a "Mattel". Now go back to your bong and tell us about how you saw Big Foot riding the Lochness Monster.
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Damn...... I wan't my mommy.... my first flame... I think I'm gonna go fire off a few thousand rounds to pick my spirits back up....
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 8:49:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2001 10:46:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 2:51:45 AM EDT
I almost thought I actually saw a receiver that said "mattel" on it. It didn't. It was a marking for a rebuilt receiver in the early 80's. I can't remember the exact lettering, so I won't even try, but part of it said "MATL" which I assumed meant "material" This was stamped into the lower on the mag well, opposite of the serial number. If you flipped the gun over, it would still say "Colt" or whomever actually built it. The original markings weren't changed in any way, just some added on. It wasn't a Mattel, just a rebuilt old XM-16E1, but I could understand how some folks would get the wrong idea.
ECS, FWIW - Ford Motor Co. manufactured planes for over a generation before WWll broke out
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Like the Ford Tri-motor. Ross
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 3:08:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 3:10:58 AM EDT by QCMGR]
Originally Posted By gt6plus: I carried that Rifle from October to February and nobody can tell me that the lower reciever didn't say Mattel on it.
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I can certainly tell you it didn't say Mattel. I had a Colt at Ft. Leonard Wood, and a Colt at Ft. Hood. Why did the Army kick you out? Drugs, a head injury?
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 4:24:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2001 4:26:28 AM EDT by Derek45]
Originally Posted By gt6plus: I have witnessed first hand an M16A1, issued to me personally at Ft McClellan Alabama in Oct of 1988, that I qualified with, That was manufactured by Mattel. We also had a few that were made by the Turbo-HydroMatic Division of G.M. these were marked on the lower receiver by the companies. I wished I had paid more attention to the different types of lower receivers...... These companies may not have manufactured complete M16's but they sure as hell made parts for them..... I carried that Rifle from October to February and nobody can tell me that the lower reciever didn't say Mattel on it.
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[smoke] [smoke] [smoke] [smoke] [smoke] [smoke] [smoke] [smoke] [smoke] [size=3][green][b]Was this before or after you were abducted my a UFO?[/size=3][/green][/b] [rolleyes] [rolleyes] [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 4:47:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garden weasel: Ahhh... the source of much confusion. I had one of these pictured guns...it was the greatest childhood toy a boy could ever have!
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 5:04:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WILSON: Not again (It's an urban legend boyz). [url]http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/[/url] . ECS, FWIW - Ford Motor Co. manufactured planes for over a generation before WWll broke out.
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I know they did, but Ford put that HUGE assembly factory together to supply prop bombers for WWII. Mass production at it finest hour if you ask me.
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