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Posted: 6/5/2001 12:23:53 PM EDT
We've often heard people complain that since 19 yrs old is considered "old enuf" to die for your country, we should lower the drinking age to match that, and be logically consistent. And for a while, I kinda agreed with that. But, I just had a thought, that may poke a hole in that "logic." From much of the reading I've done, MANY military commanders indicate that the whole reason for choosing "kids" to fight is that they are unaware of the realities of battle - they think themselves invincible. In essence, they haven't the "life experience" to know to be sufficiently scared of dying. or to put it more bluntly, they are too stupid to know better. Converesely, most military strategists know better than to put combat veterans in a "certain death" scenario. For example, on the D-Day invasion, mostly kids were chosen for the first wave, as Ike and the other commanders knew the vets KNEW what was gonna happen. The 19 yr olds inexperience actually IMPROVED their chances of survival on D-Day. The veterans were saved for the second wave. Their experience / caution would have gotten them killed on the first wave of D-Day. So, with that in mind, I don't thik we should raise the drinking age. 19 yr olds are sufficiently inexperienced to do well in combat. That same inexperience will get 'em killed if we let 'em drink and drive. And they'll probably take SOMEONE ELSE with them. Whadda ya think??? (Only those capable of handling their liquor (and their tongue) need reply.)
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 12:30:36 PM EDT
I turned 18 in 1969, registered for the draft (Vietnam), couldn't legally drink AND DID NOT LIKE IT! I'm not so sure I could vote in '69 either come to think about it?
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 12:39:54 PM EDT
Actually the drinking age for active duty military personnel is get this 18 you can join the army at 17 but have to be 18 by the time you get out of traing ...cant drink in training so age is 18..heres the kicker drinking age is 18 unless otherwise perscribed by comanders. most com say 21 to stay even with the rest of the country but in korea the age is 20 for soldiers. in Ft bliss Tx it is 18 on post for active duty military because if they said 21 soldiers would just cross the boarder and go to juarez to drink. off post have to be 21
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 12:41:00 PM EDT
burn - Interesting. I didn't know that.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 12:51:52 PM EDT
Got myself steamed thinking about this so I looked it up and sure enough 18 year olds could not vote until 1971 (26th Amendment). So I couldn't drink or vote but I sure as hell could go to Vietnam and get SHOT AT. WTF? [:(!] And people wonder why there was so much turmoil then [:D]
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 12:53:11 PM EDT
I think the drinking age at a national level is 18, or if not there's no fed law that says 21 anyway. I'm pretty sure anyplace it's higher was a state or county/city decision. We drank in N'awlins when we got out of high school at 18 a few years back.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 1:01:04 PM EDT
I feel that if the Feds can bring you into the line of fire so to speak. You should be able to drink and purchase a firearm. What a package. Sounds like the draft huh?
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 1:01:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2001 1:04:21 PM EDT by ApacheBL]
How about taxation without representation? When I was 16 and working a full time job (graduated early), I was paying the same taxes as everyone else, and my money was being spent without even a hint of my say so. Now, I know my parents got a tax rebate for me, but they didn't give it to me, and so I was getting taxed, and having nobody representing my interests, and having no ability to change it,(since I couldn't vote to change the law!!!!!). Kinda makes you wonder just who the government is looking out for...........you, or itself? And what about guns??? I, being 19, can own an 18" barreled shotgun, but not a .22 target pistol????????? Or a revolver? Just what, exactly, does that law do?? Keep me from stuffing a Mac 10 down my sagging waistband? Wonderful. Just don't forget to look under the duster for the shotgun. It just doesn't make sense. Of course, it makes as much sense as banning bayonet lugs............and what is the deal with Bush? His official website says he supports a bill that would make it illegal for anyone under 21 to own a handgun or "assult weapon". Currently, I can but them from a private citizen in my state, or be given them by my parents, which is how I got them by the way, but he wants that to go out the window. So, I can't drink, I can't own assult weapons or handguns, but I sure as hell can go die for a country that supresses me???? I love what this country was MEANT to be, what it was supposed to be, but I truly dispise what it has become. Thanks for listening.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:38:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheBL: ... So, I can't drink, I can't own assult weapons or handguns, but I sure as hell can go die for a country that supresses me???? ...
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I feel the same way. I'm active duty Navy, and handle firearms regularly. Handguns and rifles of different calibers are trusted in my hands when I'm in uniform. When out of them on the other hand, I can only buy rifles. Why can't I buy a handgun if I [b]HAVE[/b] to carry one on my hip every 3 days? Doesn't make any sense to me. The drinking thing, I don't really care about that much. I don't drink, so it doesn't bother me. But I figure, if you can die for your country, why the hell can't you buy a brew? But that's just me.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 5:03:58 PM EDT
Simple problem--simple answer. Just raise the legal age of adulthood to 21. Ta da!
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:14:53 PM EDT
I say lower the drinking age to 18. Most people act like their 16 when they're drunk. I turned 18 a week before ohio went to 19(later to go to 21) so I was "grandfathered" to buy beer. When I went in the service the E clubs back then would serve any Marine regardless of age.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:29:23 PM EDT
I wouldn't exactly agree that just because you carry an M9 on your hip or run about with a 16, that you are responsible enough to run around with one off post/AO when you're 18. I feel that when I was a young private in the Infantry, although I could be trusted to carry out my duties with my assigned weapon(s), as soon as the cat was away, the mice played. The maturity is a veil that disappears when the squad leader is out of the AO. I couldn't image the mayhem that would have ensued on the demo range if the cadre had left us alone with C4, det cord, and caps. To be honest though, I used to feel the same way about both drinking and firearms. But we always had barracks parties, and that's the best place to get thrashed if you're a fighting man, since you're surrounded by "friendlies". Oh yea, and no one carded in the barracks...
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:31:53 PM EDT
you can drink beer and wine on post at age 18 if you are active military. if you are 21 you can drink hard and mixers. so if you are under 21 and complaining about the drinking age, i say talk to your local recruiter. it may be the best decision of your life.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:41:04 PM EDT
Personally I think we should be allowed to start drinking at age 12. It seems stupid to get alcohol, motor vehicles & guns at the same time.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:47:19 PM EDT
[Originally Posted By jnewman1: you can drink beer and wine on post at age 18 if you are active military. if you are 21 you can drink hard and mixers. so if you are under 21 and complaining about the drinking age, i say talk to your local recruiter. it may be the best decision of your life.] That is true on very few posts. I think it should work at all of them.
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Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:20:37 PM EDT
While it is true that there is no national drinking age, the drinking age in every state in the union is now 21. Here in Louisiana, we were the last hold out at 18. The law changed just a few years ago under pressure of Federal bullying with threats of witholding Federal highway funds. If you ever notice that the road turns to crap when you cross into Louisiana, part of the reason is the few years that this state held out on the drinking age issue and did without the Federal highway funds. The drinking age on military bases is set by the base commander. In order to be politically correct most commanders make the drinking age 21. A few stateside bases have an 18 drinking age. Most of the overseas bases have drinking ages of 18. I personally think the drinking age should be 21 or military ID. Someone above said that 18 year olds are used in combat because of their inexpereince and therefore shouldn't be allowed to drink. That's baloney! Being able to die for your country should bring some privileges. How can anyone suggest that it is fair to arbitrarily single out a section of registered voters? Garandman, if you truly believe what you say, what if we singled out older Americans? Couln't it be argued that old folks who shouldn't be driving cause accidents on the roads needlessly? Would you feel the same if we proposed a law preventing people over 70 from driving cars legally, regardless of their physical or mental capabilties? If anyone ever suggested such a thing the AARP would black ball that politician.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:45:35 PM EDT
from what the recruiter told me very few bases are 18 to drink but hey hes the recreter trying to get me in anyway so why should i believe him personly it should be 18 across the board for guns, booze ,etc etc
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 9:30:18 PM EDT
I don't know what branch of the service you guys are in, but in the Navy and the Marine Corps the drinking age is 21. No questions. When I joined up in 1982 18 year olds could drink in the clubs on base, but only beer or wine, no hard stuff. I it was a good thing as you could bring your 18-20 year old chicks to the club and they could drink with you. Nothing like buying beer for a fine 18 year old cheerleader and taking her back to the barracks for a little late night drunk sex ops. Back in the late 80's they ended the civilian under 21 drinking on base, and in the early 90's they raised the drinking age to 21. In some of the boarder town bases (San Diego, Whidbey Island) where under 21 year olds could go and drink legaly they did allow them to drink in the clube figuring that they could get hammered on base and not have to drive across an international boarder drunk. That ended about 4 years ago. In San Diego at the boarder the TJ police check drunks for age as they are waiting to cross, if they are under age they arrest them, on the other side of the boarder both the military police and the city / sheriff's and the CHP wait to catch the rest crossing the boarder. I agree that if an 18 year old can die in the defense of our country, if they can vote, then they should be allowed to own firearms and to be able to drink. The sad truth? Too many of the 18-20 year olds are nothing but a bunch of fucking slackers and don't do a damn thing about any of it. Just think, if every 18-20 year old registered to vote and voted in a block what kind of power they could have. And if they could get the 21-25 year olds behind them....... But instead they would rather listen to rap, wear baggy clothing and get their noses pierced and get stupid tatoos on their necks.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 9:42:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2001 9:41:07 PM EDT by TX_Traveller]
I was stationed in Germany (I was already 21). I felt sorry for all the 19 or 20 year olds that had been able to go out and get plastered, but when they finished their tour and went back to the States, they would be unable to drink anymore. When I was under 21 I wanted to drink, and now that I am over 21 I still wish I could have been able to drink (legally, anyways).
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 10:22:08 PM EDT
If someone's 18 or 19 and desires to drink, there's no way you can stop them. There's always an upperclassmen at college, a cousin, friend, etc., who will supply the beer. It doesn't make sense to punish these people by taking their driver's license away or similar BS just because they had a few drinks. People who are introduced to alcohol at a young age, like the French and Greeks, tend not to have as many propblems with alcohol when they get older. It's simply no big deal to them. They have wine with dinner starting at age 5 and as a result, they don't get a hard-on for it like we do. If we were to lower the drinking age to 18 or 19 it probably wouldn't make any difference because they're drinking at that age anyway.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 6:29:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 6:29:19 PM EDT
the feds "in affect" made it law by not giving highway money to states with age limits below 21
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 7:11:56 PM EDT
But instead they would rather listen to rap, wear baggy clothing and get their noses pierced and get stupid tatoos on their necks.
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Yeah... rap and tatts are good for the soul.[:D]
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 7:30:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 7:29:07 PM EDT by HANGFIRE]
A person on active duty should be able to buy alcohol in any state upon presentment of their Military I.D. irregardless of their age.
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