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Posted: 6/2/2001 4:49:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2001 4:47:55 PM EDT by Jack-B-Nymble]
A couple years ago I read an article in the paper. A father went to pick up his son at daycare. The boy was [b]six[/b]. When the father entered the daycare he did not see his son. He asked, "Where is my son?" One of the daycare workers pointed out a little girl and told him that was his son. She was right. His son was wearing a dress, a Fairy Godmother outfit, wand and all. The father was upset. He was told that the children were playing dressup games, his son was just dressed up. He pulled his boy out of the $90 a week daycare and was considering legal action. I was telling my wife's brother, and his wife this story. His wife teaches in a pre-school. She told me, "We have boys wearing dresses quite a bit." "Their fathers do tend to get upset about it." What do you think of all of this? My reaction...I really can't get my mind around it, unless you count the fact that trying to figure it out is like shoving a dick from ear to ear. What are they trying to accomplish, putting boys in dresses? I'm talking constructive accomplishments here. While curiosity on the part of a child should not be cause to revile and embarrass him, guidance is called for here. Not encouragement to be a cross dresser!
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:26:43 PM EDT
Bear in mind, I have no human children but I don't think I would panic if the child was six. Now [i]sixteen[/i], and I'd be more inclined to ask what his stage name was. [:D] Seriously... that is the age where little kids are exploring EVERYTHING and without pre-judgement or bias. I think making it a shameful experience would be more damaging to the child in the long run. I think your concern is that the son would grow up to be gay because he wore a dress at six. I don't believe that early wardrobe is the catalyst for most homosexuals. [;D] And, if the father did make a huge deal out of it and the boy eventually did realize he was gay, how much do you think the son is going to want to trust the father with that information?
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:34:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David M: What are they trying to accomplish, putting boys in dresses? I'm talking constructive accomplishments here.
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Start the conditioning while their young, it'll stick with 'em better. It's all part of the commie plan. Hell just the other day I walked through a friends house his daughter was watching cartoons, not any old cartoons but new ones specifically for little kids anyway there was a family of bears sitting around talking in their bear house, the front door opens and a bear dressed as a police bear comes in asks if everybody is all right, turns around and leaves. It's everywhere, sometimes subtle and sometimes just bizzare. I didn't happen to notice what state you were posting from but if it's not kalifornia ask a lawyer if it could be even addressed in a criminal court. It could fall under some type of weird sex crime or psychological torture on a child even. I don't have a kid and wont for a long time I'm just a kid myself but you might think long and hard about whether or not you'd want him to go through with a legal proceedings if they actually needed him in a courtroom, testimony from other parents might work if you can find a few more that take their kids their who could talk with their kids about it. I wan't to see this sick shit dissappear.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:35:24 PM EDT
Work! TURN TO THE LEFT! NOW WORK! TURN TO THE RIGHT! DO YOUR THING... Sashe......chante...... WORK! [red]C_O_V_E_R_G_I_R_L![/red]
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:36:32 PM EDT
I agree with Miss Magnum. My little brother now 21 yrs. old did the same thing when he was 5 yrs. old. We all thought he would be a FAG but my mother and father said to leave him along and don't pay any attention. Now at age 21, the guy just gets all the beautiful women!
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:43:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2001 5:43:11 PM EDT by Jack-B-Nymble]
Bear in mind, Miss Magnum, a person's sexuality is being formed around the age of 5 or 6. I did not mean that either hysteria or shame are the answer, merely guidance. Perhaps a, "Son, why don't you try out that cowboy out fit?" Would wearing the dress eventually turn the boy Gay? Probably not. But these times are confusing enough for young people, without a further bluring of what was once distinct. Growing up, I nor none of my friends wore dresses. We mostly played backyard baseball, football, ect. The lack of dress wearing never stunted our imanginative developement. Also, there has been a societal movement of the last few years toward androgyne. I don't buy it. Not for a minute.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:52:02 PM EDT
David, I'm not saying buy the kid a dress. I'm not advocating dressing him that way everyday if he once wanted to wear one. I'm just saying that kids try out different things.. [i]especially[/i] when they are exploring their sexuality and it doesn't necessarily mean one thing or the other. Heck, I decided to rebel in 7th grade by shaving half my head in a very small country town. Know what? My mom took me to get my haircut! She considered it a form of expression. Funny thing is.. her acceptance of it took all the air out of my balloon. It's no fun when you don't get a rise out of your parents. To this day I've never gotten a tattoo or any strange body piercings, etc. Hmmmmm...
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:54:46 PM EDT
Open up a Legal Can of Whoop Ass! My son would of beat her silly before putting on a dress.[sniper]
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:55:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2001 5:54:15 PM EDT by HANGFIRE]
Clap trap, MAGNUMB! You better read a book on childhood development.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:58:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By o0o: Work! TURN TO THE LEFT! NOW WORK! TURN TO THE RIGHT! DO YOUR THING... Sashe......chante...... WORK! [red]C_O_V_E_R_G_I_R_L![/red]
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[smoke]
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:58:33 PM EDT
Please enlighten me, Hangfire. I've long been in admiration of your tender nature and would like to see how your nurturing side would care for young children.....
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 5:59:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2001 5:57:45 PM EDT by critter_FR]
I would do the same thing I did when my six year old daughter told me that my ex wife took her to a commie peace festival. I took her straight upstairs and proceeded to teach her a major lesson... ... in reloading .243! [}:D] By the time the evening was over, she had decapped and resized about 200 pieces of brass, and was wanting to learn how to weigh powder charges. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 6:05:41 PM EDT
I wouldn'yt have to do a thing. MY 6 yr old son would open his OWN 'can o' whupass' on ANYONE who tried to put him in a dress! Miss M, with all due respect, until you have children of your own, you don't know what you are talking about. Sorry, one of my hot buttons is people who think that their pets are 'children.' It is an unbelieveable INSULT!
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 6:08:04 PM EDT
Childhood development books - don't you think our kids are getting worst since we started having these scholars write these blue prints? I raise three children and I will raise my kids the way my parents raised me. Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of good things in these books but most are BS. Kids now a days need old style discipline - they need a line for you to draw. That line is where they should not cross. I'm only one mans opinion!
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 6:13:11 PM EDT
If I shaved a little girls head and said that's one fine looking boy you have their what would you do. Its not right PERIOD............ [sniper]
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 6:16:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By paspecops: Miss M, with all due respect, until you have children of your own, you don't know what you are talking about.
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So if I haven't biologically reproduced a child I can't have a valid response? What a crock of sh*t! What about all of the parents that have several children who have no CLUE what they are doing? What about adoptive parents? I have no problem disciplining a child or setting limits with them. I just differ from you in what I do and don't consider a big deal.
Sorry, one of my hot buttons is people who think that their pets are 'children.' It is an unbelieveable INSULT!
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My animals are my responsibility and I will call them whatever I please. If my referring to them as "my kids" pisses you off, all the better! [moon]
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 6:20:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-SNIPER-15: If I shaved a little girls head and said that's one fine looking boy you have their what would you do.
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That's apples and oranges. The boy was wearing a dress as a [i]costume[/i] by his own choice, the dress was not permanently a part of him and the daycare lady didn't call him a "little girl" she just pointed and said "there's your son."
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 6:33:09 PM EDT
That's the difference I think people are talking about here. The oh well their just kids mentality. BS my son was raised to know what's right and what's wrong. My son would never put on a dress because he knows that it is wrong.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 6:36:20 PM EDT
I'd probably try to teach him that just because he chose to wear a dress one day that doesn't mean he is being encouraged to be a cross dresser but even though he is only six somebody may make a big deal out of it. Personally when he turns 16 I'd be less worried if he came in the door with a dress on than if he came in and proclaimed "Did you hear the good news? Jesus died for your sins!" I certainly expect to hold the minority opinion on that.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 8:30:19 PM EDT
It depends. Do his shoes and purse match?
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 8:33:22 PM EDT
What are some of you getting so hot over? David M is quoting from something he read " a couple years ago" in the paper. Consider this: We don't know whether the boy chose to dress himself up or daycare employees dressed him that way. All David M told us is that "He was told that the children were playing dressup games, his son was just dressed up." About the time you have better information than this would be the time for you to form some kind of judgement regarding the incident.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 8:33:29 PM EDT
Now seriously. It is the parents choice as to whether they find this offensive. Personally I would. What you say, it is just dress up? For those of you that think that way how would you feel if you went to the day car and your kid was dressed in a KKK out fit or a Nazi uniform. No, it will not make them grow up to be a racist or want to kill Jews simply because they were dressed that way once in day care. But I'll damn sure bet you would be pissed they were dressed like that while in their care.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 8:43:21 PM EDT
Say it with me: [size=6]UNITED[/size=6] [size=6]STATES[/size=6] [size=6]MARINE[/size=6] [size=6]CORPS[/size=6]
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 9:56:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David M:
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I read this and thought about it.... I've raised a son and daughter to adulthood. An isolated incident like this would make me ask the "teachers" some pointed questions, but I don't think either my son getting a one shot gig at being the tooth fairy, or my daughter wearing Daniel Boon garb would turn them into a panty waist or a bull dyke. kids "dress up" let them play... You are the parent... you watch.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 11:12:27 PM EDT
I am NOT sorry. There is no fucking way that any child (5-13) of mine would be wearing anything but the clothes I sent him / her to school with. No fucking "dress days" for the boys, no "butch lezbo" days for the girls. When in high school, if the boy wanted to wear a dress for "pep week" or "Halloween" and it was a joke then I would have no problems. It's hard enough to teach young kids that queers and lezbos are wrong and should be avoided at all costs, but it's not ok to make fun of them for what they are. Last thing I need are the boys coming home asking about makeup and hem lengths.
Link Posted: 6/2/2001 11:35:09 PM EDT
Did they force the kid to wear that outfit or did the kids get to pick thier own? Maybe that was the only costume left, what do 6 year olds know? Ever occur to you the kid just wanted to wear wings(pretend he had the ability to fly) and magic powers(the wand part)? The kid may have picked his own costume, and made his choice for any number of reasons and was not aware of any percieved gay meaning in his choice. Jeez, the kid is like 6 right? If the kids still doing this at home several months from now, then worry. CTR,LMAO
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 12:04:56 AM EDT
To clarify something, the boy in the story chose his own dress.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 12:12:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chelu: I agree with Miss Magnum. My little brother now 21 yrs. old did the same thing when he was 5 yrs. old. We all thought he would be a FAG but my mother and father said to leave him along and don't pay any attention. Now at age 21, the guy just gets all the beautiful women!
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I guess it's safe to say your brother's not Imbrog|io... [:)]
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 12:29:47 AM EDT
One more thing to think about: My sister-in-law also told me that many of the boys (3-5) try to play games like Cowboys and Indians. Playing a boyhood game, without [i]"pre-judgement or bias."[/i] Invariably one or more will fashion a gun from playdough, a carrot, or whatever, or play pretend with their hand. None of us ever did that did we? You know, back when boys wore pants, and schools never got shot up. [b]These youngsters are taken aside and very firmly told that this is not acceptable.[/b] So, here we are. It is strictly forbiden for little boys to play a legit game of Cowboys & Indians, but it's just fine for them to prance around in a little pink dress.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 12:32:24 AM EDT
Take him out hunting bambi in a dress. If he's persuaded towards the emotional side the hunt will be so traumatizing that whenever he sees a dress he'll associate it with being a bambi killer and he won't desire ever wearing another one again. If he enjoys the hunt however he'll see how poor of a hunting outfit a dress makes and maybe that will open his mind to seeing how prohibitive and restrictive a dress is. I mean honestly? Could you imagine how pissed off the other little boys on the playground will be when they are under the junglegym looking up dresses only to see a pair of twig and berries staring them in the face?! Sorry, it's late and I just feel like being a bafoon.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 12:57:45 AM EDT
Give 'em a break, the doods only six. He's playing a game, he doesn't know about all these folk's sexual problems and bigotries. Sex? That's what old people do.... Gay? Fag? Dyke?... those are just terms old people use to say what's not exceptable when doing old people things. Don't worry about it and for damned sure don't make a big deal about it. Bad attention is still attention. That being said... personally, I'd be a little annoyed, but not mad. Only my ego would be bruised. After all, we all want our sons to be better and more manly than we are. Like I said before. Relax, he's only six. Sexual orientation is a few years away. And Hangfire..... Read something on child development yourself.... a basic psychology book would do the trick. Name the stages of adolescent development.... one of them will surprise you.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 4:30:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2001 4:33:32 AM EDT by InTheBlack]
Originally Posted By CTR: Say it with me: [size=6]UNITED[/size=6] [size=6]STATES[/size=6] [size=6]MARINE[/size=6] [size=6]CORPS[/size=6]
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[size=3]OOH RAH!![/size=3] I wonder what soccer mom would say if she walked into the daycare and saw her daughter wearing cammies and holding a toy rifle?
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 4:49:49 AM EDT
I don't think it matters in this case, but there is an agenda in education to train the "testosterone" out of American school age boys. Conventional wisdom says that in a modern society, many of the traits that helped man survive need to be trained out of him. In my opinion this is a bad idea, who wants passive soldiers.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 4:51:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2001 4:51:32 AM EDT by RBAD]
Send 'em to the McUzi Academy of Manhood ! [img]web-comm.com/ar15/mc6.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:20:46 AM EDT
Sorry Guys: I'm with Miss Magnum on this one. Little kids at this age don't have all of your preconceived notions about what is "proper." My little boy did the same thing at a neighbor's house when he was about 3.5. He was playing with a little girl. She by the way is pretty tough and one of his best friends. For those of you that don't have kids, at that age they all want the toy the other child has. So he got his turn. Tossed her costume on over his clothes. Not a big deal. All of this on his own by the way. He has not repeated it. He knows he's a boy and is getting to the icky girl stage. There is no need to make a big deal out of this. If you don't the kid will forget about it. Putting on a costume a few times as a little child is NOT going to make anyone into a cross dresser or a homosexual. That's just not the way it works. Since some of you are so vehement that this is wrong, what happens if your child grows up and is gay? Will you still love them or will you bring out the "legal whoop-ass spray"? About 10% of you will get to find out the answer to this question. If you make a really big deal about this, the kid will remember and will do everything in his power to keep you from finding out.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:32:28 AM EDT
[red]"Homocil...until you come around"[/red] While watching Saturday Night Live a few weeks ago I saw this add that fits perfectly here. sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 4:34:10 PM EDT
The father probably did overeact. Due to the disconcerting [i]surprise[/i] at being confronted by his son, in a dress. Everybody who has been on the opposite side of this issue has said, "Shouldn't make a big deal, yada, yada." I never once said that the boy in question would turn gay from his dress wearing experience. I never said he should be castigated (read that word carefully) for wearing a dress. I only suggested some mild [b]guidance[/b] was in order. While I thought the people on both sides of this issue made good points, for the [b]parent[/b] of a child in this situation, the bottom line is, there ain't no F#$%ing room for debate! The father has a right to see his boy wear whatever he thinks is appropriate for the child. If I remember right, he was told "Oh well, he picked it out." He was also told that there was no guarantee it wouldn't happen again. Also, there is a lot of difference between 3 1/2 year olds and 6 year olds. [b]As far as the "preconceived ideas" point that was made several times. Every basis of our entire civilization, our laws, our customs, every single thing but our gut instincts, is a "Preconceived idea", built on and evolved from earlier preconceived ideas.[/b] [i]When you are 6 you are supposed to be learning those ideas![/i] So, where I hop off is here: The neolithic among us prefer our sons to wear pants!
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 4:50:01 PM EDT
Well, you folks rant and rave all you want. I'M gonna go celebrate the diversity my Scottish heritage by wearing a kilt. (And not much else.) [%(]
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 4:57:43 PM EDT
That doesn't count as a dress. Kilts allowed the Scotts room to kick ass on the battlefield, after they had properly mooned and flashed their opponents. BTW, what's the story behind kilts? Is it like a Scottish version of a tunic?
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:14:37 PM EDT
Miss M - Why do you attack men who disagree with you? You expressed your opinion, I expressed mine. I thought that you were a person worthy of respect. Evidently I was mistaken.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:21:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By paspecops: Miss M - Why do you attack men who disagree with you? You expressed your opinion, I expressed mine. I thought that you were a person worthy of respect. Evidently I was mistaken.
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Please point out to me where I specifically singled you out and hurt your feelings.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:28:22 PM EDT
Miss M, this will NOT become a flame war. You don't like what I said, now you're pissed and looking for a fight. Did you not learn that others are entitled to an opinion? Or are you one of these women who knows what is goos for everybody else? I will respond to no more of your posts.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:33:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2001 5:35:34 PM EDT by phrigid]
You know, when I was young, I might have worn a dress. I don't remember if I did, but it's possible. I' m sure that if I did/had, my parents would/did sit me down and explain why such a thing a thing would have been good/bad. That's the way I was raised. When I got into my teen years, I wore a dress a couple of times just for laughs, but nothing ever came of it. I even had 7 earrings and a nosering (actually still have all of those, but I cut off my mohawk a few years back), and am currently married to a beautiful woman, and am a proud father. If other people are dressing your kids up and you don't approve, ask them not to. But consider just what it is that bothers you about it, and ask yourself if it is really something that you need to worry about right now. I'm not saying not to be involved, but if the kids are just playing and doing things that we consider strange or stupid like we all did when we were young, just relax. Whatever they're doing now, they'll probably find something new to do soon. If a problematic behavior arises and persists, that's when action should definitely be taken. BTW, Miss Magnum, it's definitely OK to call animals your "children." My six dogs would be very unhappy if they weren't referred to as my "kids."
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:35:47 PM EDT
Now...where did I put that kilt! Anybody for some Haggis? A lot of you make good points. I would not be very happy with my son in a dress but I would not make a big deal about it since he is only six. I would also find out why he was wearing the dress and if he told me that he liked the pretty lace and the way the fine chenille felt agaist his skin I would start to get worried. If it was because he and the other guys drew straws and the loser had to play the fairy godmother that is a different story altogether. I grew up in the 60's and 70's when the gender roles in society were much more traditional. I had a Mom and a Dad. My mom was the nurturer and my dad was the whoop ass guy when I screwed up. I had limits and I knew them. Lots of kids these days don't have that luxury. I have a good friend who is a single parent and her two boys rule the roost there. They drive her nuts! That would not have happened in my day since I had a Dad in the house to keep me in line. I am a single parent of two boys and while I am good at the typical guy things like discipline, setting and enforcing limits and whoop ass when needed I'm sure my guys are suffering in some way for not having a positive female influence in their lives. But, I do the best I can with what I've got. It sounds like the kid who was wearing the dress at least has a live in mom and dad and that, in the long run, is probably all that matters.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:37:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2001 5:39:20 PM EDT by Miss Magnum]
Originally Posted By paspecops: Miss M, this will NOT become a flame war. You don't like what I said, now you're pissed and looking for a fight. Did you not learn that others are entitled to an opinion? Or are you one of these women who knows what is goos for everybody else? I will respond to no more of your posts.
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Again, you are mistaken. I am not upset in the least. I was genuinely curious at what you took as a personal attack. ------------------------------------------------ [b]Okay.. I went back and read what you are referring to. But, by all accounts, [i]you[/i] were the instigator of whatever perceived hostility has developed.[/b] ------------------------------------------------ The only person on this thread who, I feel, could legitmately claim that is Hangfire.... and all that was was some thinly veiled sarcasm. If you don't want to respond on the board, my email is always available. *edited because I spontaneously regained the ability to read... [:D]
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:42:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TRW: Now...where did I put that kilt! Anybody for some Haggis? What clan be you,TRW?
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:47:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2001 5:49:34 PM EDT by TRW]
Originally Posted By phrigid:
Originally Posted By TRW: Now...where did I put that kilt! Anybody for some Haggis? What clan be you,TRW?
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I'm from the Rose clan up near Banff and Aberdeen! How about you? [img]http://www.scotclans.com/scotclans/assets/images/Rose-tr.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:48:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chelu: Childhood development books - don't you think our kids are getting worst since we started having these scholars write these blue prints? I raise three children and I will raise my kids the way my parents raised me. Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of good things in these books but most are BS. Kids now a days need old style discipline - they need a line for you to draw. That line is where they should not cross. I'm only one mans opinion!
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I am not talking new age child development, I am talking behavorial child development. Science not psuedo science.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:49:54 PM EDT
Imagine if the Father had been black and had gone to the DayCare and found his son dressed in white sheets with a hood. Would the kid grow up to be a racist?[BD] Eric The(NeverMind)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 5:56:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss Magnum: Please enlighten me, Hangfire. I've long been in admiration of your tender nature and would like to see how your nurturing side would care for young children.....
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I loathe people who have no children giving guidence to those that do. Virgins giving advice on sexual congress is another. People who know nothing about guns giving advice on gun saftey and use.................
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 6:32:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HANGFIRE: I loathe people who have no children giving guidence to those that do. Virgins giving advice on sexual congress is another. People who know nothing about guns giving advice on gun saftey and use.................
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So, what are you qualified to give advice on, then, without engendering feelings of self-loathing?
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