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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 5/31/2001 2:41:56 PM EDT
My co-worker and I were on our way to work when we got pulled over by a local LEO. I was riding shotgun and my co-worker was driving his new truck that he bought 2 days ago so we figured this was about not having a county sticker. However, two leos approached us on either side and my friend told the one that was on his side that we were both carrying. So the leo asked us to put our guns on the dash. Evidently the guy on my side wasn't paying any attention so when I pulled my holster off he drew his gun and about shit his pants. He was obviously a rookie cop but damn he should have been paying more attention to the conversation. Anyway they made a big fuss over it..called for back up K9 assistance. They then had the gull to ask why we felt like we needed weapons at such a young age (24). Oh well to make a long story short they let us go with a warning, but sh!t this is the second time I have been hassled for carrying and it is starting to get under my skin. We told them because in VA it is recognized that we are entitled to carry for self defense as stated in the US constitution. Oh well..has anyone else had encounters like this?
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 2:44:16 PM EDT
Why were you pulled over? Maybe you need driving lessons.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 2:44:53 PM EDT
A warning for what?
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 2:48:49 PM EDT
oh sorry, I think quicker than I type. We did get pulled over for not having a county sticker and got a warning for it.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 3:05:27 PM EDT
From [url]www.packing.org[/url] While not law to notify a law enforcement officer, Virginia CCW permit holders have a note in the Va DMV computer, so the officer usually knows when walking up on a vehicle stop if a person is/can be legally armed. --- If they didn't ask, I wouldn't have told them about being armed.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 3:13:09 PM EDT
7- Thanks for the link..interesting site.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 3:24:24 PM EDT
The recommendation for CCW holders here in TX, is to produce both drivers & carry license (even if unarmed) when pulled over or approached by a LEO requesting ID. I don't get pulled over much, but make flashing both a standard practice - when I do. Seems to take the edge off the encounter, as CCW holders are generally viewed as the good guys by LEOs - in this neck of the woods, at least. GCF
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 4:26:07 PM EDT
I am amazed that the officers told you to put your guns on the dash. No way I would let a subject handle the weapon. Doesn't seem right to me but, hey, I wasn't there.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 4:31:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GCF: Seems to take the edge off the encounter, as CCW holders are generally viewed as the good guys by LEOs - in this neck of the woods, at least. GCF
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That is GREAT to know.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 4:36:47 PM EDT
Ummmm, Kissel, They're not subjects. They're citizens. We had a revolution over this crap. Remember reading about it? Norm
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 4:41:07 PM EDT
AMEN NORM!!!! FREEDOM [%(]
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 4:42:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2001 4:40:58 PM EDT by mtnpatriot]
Originally Posted By Kissel: No way I would let a subject handle the weapon.
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You should really consider using a different term other than "subject". It tends to turn otherwise peacefull citizens into authority hating radical right wing extreamists. Wait a minute...I am a peacefull citizen AND I am suspicious of authority, AND I am probably considered a right wing extreamist! Never mind. Just go about your "law enforcement" duties and keep us safe. Tin foil hat on!
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 5:05:47 PM EDT
Your papers were not in order, presumably.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 5:11:05 PM EDT
Kissel you better stay in what ever anti gun liberal state you work in cause if you come to Nebraska and pull over a gun owner he will most likely put his handgun in plain site on the dashboard as you approach as this is the law of the land here. Here in NE we don't hide guns from cops cause they usually be on our hip.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 5:14:38 PM EDT
It was probibally in his computer. Be happy you have a CCW.(even with the rookie like hassles) I'm in NJ, no such animal here. My brother had a car stolen a while back (in Colorado) the LEO that came out to his call knew more about him and his family than you thought possible.(wifes/kids names, ages, firearms/CCW etc.) Tin foil hat on? YES!! Eric PS Norm G, do you shoot at CJRPC ?
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 5:21:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 5:22:39 PM EDT
Regarding: > If they didn't ask, I wouldn't have told them > about being armed. [/quote] I would not do this in VA. When I took my concealed carry class (NRA HQ), they had a State Trooper come in and talk a little about the LE's reaction. He recommended to ALWAYS inform the LE officer that you have a license, regardless whether you're carrying. When the officer discovers that you have a license on the computer, and that you didn't tell him, it automatically makes him suspicious. LE reactions differ towards CCW, also he said. Many troopers would feel very uncomfortable with a CCW permit holder. But he'd rather know what you're carrying and how you'd like it. YMMV
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 5:42:33 PM EDT
what is a "county sticker"
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 7:12:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Marcus: He recommended to ALWAYS inform the LE officer that you have a license, regardless whether you're carrying
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VA law does not require that you inform the officer if you are carrying. I would expect the trooper to encourage you to tell the officer but it is up to the individual. VTHOKIESHOOTER, glad everything worked out. That would irritate me about them asking why you feel the 'need' to carry. Also the incident with the rookie cop.
Link Posted: 5/31/2001 8:10:37 PM EDT
I never say a word. I give them my CCW Permit with the licence and insurance card (if I'm carrying that day). OR if they ask me if I have any guns, I reply with a YEAH, like DUH of course I do... BISHOP
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 5:17:42 AM EDT
Norm G: I use the term "subject" as in, the "subject" of the traffic stop. I think you knew that anyway. mtnpatriot: No LEO here. Just some schmuck trying to gain education from all of you armchair experts. David Hineline: I am not LEO, and I live in Pennsylvania, a very gun-friendly state. The original post is from Virginia where there is no open carry. You're comparing apples and oranges (again). VTHOKIESHOOTER said the LEO asked them to place their guns on the dash. I would like to hear from any LEO that wants a traffic stop SUBJECT handling a firearm in their presence--especially before it has even been determined whether the SUBJECT is carrying legally.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 5:29:16 AM EDT
thanks for all the input....btw we do have an open carry law in VA although it is tactically unwise to take advantage of it in my opinion, and when I had to show competence with a handgun to get my ccw the deputy he told me to always notify LEOs when I get pulled over.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 5:31:06 AM EDT
I have been pulled over ONCE in Seattle, was asked if armed, said yes, gave him a valid CCW permit, and was kept with my hands in the air, by verbal order, for over 10 minutes. AFTER I was allowed to drop them, I informed him AND his supervisor, bad guys probably dont admit carrying, nor have permits, and I thought they were dumbasses that needed retrained. All of us had a bad taste in our mouths from that stop. Later, a lawyer told me NOT to admit carrying, as it is NOT required, but to provide my permit, logic being, IF I am armed, I am allowed by law.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 6:23:59 AM EDT
GCF I t is more than a recomendation here in Texas to show your CHL to LE if you are pulled over and carrying. It is the law. If you don't they WILL suspend your liscence for 90 days. If you are not carrying you are not required to but it is a good idea. In Texas your CHL is tied to your DL number. When they run your DL it will come back and say that you have a CHL. If you have not shown your CHL to the officer he is going to be all kinds of suspicious. Lordtrader Most LE look at CHL carriers as good guys. The few times that I have has LE contact and either shown my CHL or let them no that I have one the response was always positive.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 6:34:04 AM EDT
Where'd it happen? Christiansburg?
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 6:40:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: I have been pulled over ONCE in Seattle, was asked if armed, said yes, gave him a valid CCW permit, and was kept with my hands in the air, by verbal order, for over 10 minutes. AFTER I was allowed to drop them, I informed him AND his supervisor, bad guys probably dont admit carrying, nor have permits, and I thought they were dumbasses that needed retrained. All of us had a bad taste in our mouths from that stop.
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What the F--- directly is this sh!t about? I would be super-pissed if I were you, not just a "bad taste in my mouth". This is supposed to be America where we don't treat people like criminals unless there's reason to. Having a gun and whatever traffic violation you got pulled over for is no reason for them to think your a criminal. Have you made a complaint? I would. Ve vant to zee zyour paperss!
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 6:53:25 AM EDT
Sorry Kissel. Hate to keep fanning the flames but... "No way I would let a subject handle the weapon." Kissel Insert any word you want for subject, it still don't ring right. I don't think you have that authority, LEO or not.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 6:58:25 AM EDT
I heard a story about some guy who was pulled over by an anti CCW cop. The Citizen told the officer that he was carrying and produced his permit along with his DL and registration. The officer made him get out of the car, and he broke down the pistol, placing the parts on the roof of the citizen's car, scratching it all up. He then decided not to give a ticket for anything (I don't remember what he was pulled over for, but it was a valid stop) and left the scene. The citizen collected his gun parts, put them back together, and went home with a scratched up roof. I believe he did end up receiving a formal apology.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 7:11:05 AM EDT
"So the leo asked us to put our guns on the dash." WTF I have NEVER, NEVER heard of an officer stupid enough to ask that. Or anyone to actually follow those orders. That is possibly the worse action anyone could take. Why did they want you to put the guns on the dash? So you all could shoot one another? "Anyway they made a big fuss over it..called for back up K9 assistance". What the heii is a K-9 unit going to do? THIS MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE [:O]
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 7:15:55 AM EDT
I thought I had checked the VA carry laws, but if open carry is OK, I stand corrected. My apologies. How about if we replace "subject" with "object"? Do you also take offense at the term "the subject of the investigation"? Same thing. zipster223, thanks for getting down to the essence of the issue. A ton of bricks DOES need to fall.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 8:19:27 AM EDT
If i may ask whats the logic behind showing a LEO your permit if your not carring..
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 1:45:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By godmode: If i may ask whats the logic behind showing a LEO your permit if your not carring..
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theory I've heard from most carriers is that it can a lot of times get you a warning for whatever you got pulled over for rather than a ticket. and some places i think require it.
Link Posted: 6/1/2001 2:09:51 PM EDT
About getting your license, CCW, registration together BEFORE the LEO is at the car . . . In LEO speak this constitutes "furtive movements." That's what they call it. Furtive movements are sufficient cause for the officer to draw his gun and take cover, order you out of the vehicle at gunpoint with your hands in the air. LEO's get nervous about "furtive movments." They also check for "furtive movements" to JUSTIFY holding you at gunpoint, ordering you out of the vehicle, etc. When the issue comes up in court, "Why did you, Officer, draw your weapon during this traffic stop?" The LEO merely has to reply, "I observed 'furtive movements' by the defendant." That covers his butt in the eyes of the law. Furtive movement can be as little as unfastening your seat belt, setting the parking brake, putting the vehicle in "park." It certainly includes digging out your ID, and by gawd you don't want to dig in the glove box. If he "thinks" you're trying to stash something, "furtive movements" provide legal "probable cause" for a search of the vehicle. Best policy when pulled over is to stop the car, turn on the dome light, put your hands on the wheel and wait for further instruction. Skip rolling down the window until he/she is there to watch you. If you're carrying, inform them that you're carrying and the location of the firearm(s) (Required in some states). THEN let the LEO decide what he/she wants to do next. --"put the gun on the dash" . . . NEVER heard of such a thing. I'd never let someone go for their gun for any kind of purpose during a routine stop. Best policy is not to get pulled over in the first place. When I'm carrying, I'm super carefull about being courteous and lawful.
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