Llama, Kahr, or . . neither

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Llama, Kahr, or . . neither

Posted: 5/29/2001 1:28:09 PM EDT

Hello all

I'm about to purchase a concealed carry weapon, I'd like to keep my price around $500 if possible. I found a nice llama .45 for about 300, but I'm wondering what experience anyone here has had with this. There's also a Kahr I'm looking at, but it's about $500 and doesn't have an exposed hammer, which is something I prefer.

Thanks

Pagan

Posted: 5/29/2001 1:32:28 PM EDT

[#1]

Ive shot the kahr models quit a bit and love them (both in 9 and 40) the 40 has a bit of a kick in the wrist that my wife doesnt like but it doesnt bother me. I dont have any imput on the llama but i do like the 45 for carry better than the 40 and a lot better than the 9. Just my $0.02

Posted: 5/29/2001 1:38:53 PM EDT

[#2]

FOr me a llama would not even be a consideration. A friend of mine bought one. After 3 rounds the slide froze up solid with a live round in the chamber. Sent back to dealer for repair. took him 3 months to get it back. Did the same thing the next time out. There are several in the 500.00 range that are decent pistols. A glock30 for around 550. is what i carry and i love it. If you don't shoot it a great deal Charles Daly makes a fair .45. Although i have heard they don't hold up well in the long run.

Posted: 5/29/2001 1:42:04 PM EDT

[#3]

reliablilty is a crucial consideration for me. I've got a Ruger, and I guess it's spoiled me. I've never had a jam, even with the cheapest reloads I can find. But, it's too big for CCW, so I'm looking around. I'm not a glock fan, tho :( But thanks for the input on the Llama.

Pagan

Posted: 5/29/2001 1:56:46 PM EDT

[#4]

bought a Llama in 1975, has never jammed shooting factory ammo.

Posted: 5/29/2001 2:16:24 PM EDT

[#5]

I think your going to find the Kahr's have an excellent reputation for reliability.

I have a K9 I picked up shortly after they hit the market. It is my daily carry piece though I prefer a .45. I'd have got the .40 but it wasn't available at the time. I'll accept the compact Kahr 9mm, as the first rule of winning a gunfight is to have a gun. I find it's much easier to carry the Kahr than any of my .45's and therfore it is on me more often than not.

From day one, my K9 has functioned flawlessly with factory hollowpoints. It is accurate enough for self defense and with 8 rounds should give all the firepower needed to survive the average self defense situation.

After several years of near daily carry/riding in my truck and a fair amount of shooting, my K9 still looks pretty decent thought the finsh has worn in a few places.

About the worst criticism I have for my K9 is the trigger guard is very sharp. When I've worn off a bit more finish, I'll have that smoothed up and refinsh the gun. At that point the gun will be darn near perfect as a CC piece.

Posted: 5/29/2001 2:28:03 PM EDT

[#6]

Get the Kahr,forget the Llama!

I don't care for the 9mm,unless I have a 30 round magazine like in my MP5,but two of my boys carry them(one the K9 the other the P9) and love them!
The P9 is light and feels like an extension of my arm.
I like my Sig239 in .40 S&W and you can get one for $439 plus FFL fees.Check shotgun news for prices.

Posted: 5/29/2001 2:36:28 PM EDT

[#7]

It's my experience the Llama's quality fluctuates. I saw two from a wholesaler that were only a few numbers off. One was OK, the other was terrible. Over the years, it seems to be a pay 'yer money, take 'yor chance proposition.

Kahr is top of the line, and a truly GREAT carry gun. Of the ones I've seen, I've never seen a bad one. The few that had a problem, were made right by the factory.

I like the Kahr's simplicity. There's no need to worry about which 'condition' to carry it, and it conceals better than the Llama.
It's a "pull, point, BANG" gun.

Posted: 5/29/2001 2:37:27 PM EDT

[#8]

No llama...kahr maybe......colt officer`s....kimber, springfield,para ordanance.....but if you can find a h-k or sig in the price range, do it.....SHOP AROUND!!!!!......[pistol]

Posted: 5/29/2001 2:40:25 PM EDT

[#9]

If you buy a Kahr you are supporting the Reverend Sun Myung Moon as he owns Kahr arms.There are many better choices than a crap MOONIE Kahr.

Posted: 5/29/2001 2:45:29 PM EDT

[#10]

Well, I need something small. This is texas, any clothing bulkier then a shirt is going to be impractical. So, a full size 1911 is out of the question.

How do you glock and kahr owners deal with the "no external safety, no exposed hammer" problem? When I did carry my Ruger, I kept it with the hammer down, round chambered, safety off. I like being able to see the hammer, to know how much it's going to take on the trigger before that round goes off.

Could you explain more, faris, what you mean by "don't need to worry about what condition it's in"

Thanks

Pagan

Posted: 5/29/2001 3:07:58 PM EDT

[#11]

it's very easy to tell if a glock is cocked. if the trigger is forward it's hot. the lack of exposed hammer gives less surface to snag on. The key to the glock is the moderate trigger pull. The "safety" is built into the trigger. The trigger can not move unless the safety flag is pulled with it. I carry mine in a sidearmor IWB. it fully encloses the trigger guard.
I was always a 1911 fan until I bought my glock. I carried cocked and locked all the time. Once I got used to the glock I really prefer it for CCW. The trigger takes some getting used to but it is consistent. Exact same pull each and every time. Plus 10 rnds of .45acp should get you out of most situations. if not a speed reload is fast and easy.

Posted: 5/29/2001 3:11:27 PM EDT

[#12]

I have owned 2 Llama's, both junk. Have 2 friends with them, one junk, one OK. This is one of the few brands I would to stay away from. Owned a Kahr K40 that was a very good pistol but just didn't fit my hand. I carry a Glock 27. I know some people don't like them but you can't beat them for reliability which is the top priority in a defense pistol.

Posted: 5/29/2001 3:42:21 PM EDT

[#13]

Although there are always exceptions, all the later model Llamas (semi-autos) I've had experience with have had functioning problems. I've heard very good things about the Kahr. I carry various guns, (Kel-Tec 9mm, Glock 27 and Para Ord P12) and like them all. The Kel-Tec is a superb bargain and functions perfectly. By the way I'm in Texas too and can carry a full-size 1911 or Beretta 92G with nothing more than a Hawaiian or similar shirt covering. I'm 6'00" and 220#. Just spend good money on the right belt and holster.

Posted: 5/29/2001 3:58:25 PM EDT

[#14]

I can`t get into GLOCK.....afraid i might like them too much.............[smoke]

Posted: 5/29/2001 4:02:22 PM EDT

[#15]

Kahr all the way. I carry a K9 Elite 98 with Federal +P+ loads as my daily concealed carry, along with 2 spare mags, a Surefire 6P and a set of lightweight cuffs. I have carried everything from a North American mini .22 to an original ASP 9mm, depending on the time and duties I was involved in. LOVE my Kahr. Check out the P9 if you want lighter gun. The +P+'s are a little sharp in the P series guns, but they are manageable.
[X] [X]

Posted: 5/29/2001 4:09:36 PM EDT

[#16]

Get a compact Glock with the heavier trigger spring & connector. If you're uneasy about carrying it with a round chambered, get a Saf-T-Lock pop-out trigger block until you get comfortable. You'll never look back.

Posted: 5/29/2001 4:14:34 PM EDT

[#17]

How do you glock and kahr owners deal with the "no external safety, no exposed hammer" problem? When I did carry my Ruger, I kept it with the hammer down, round chambered, safety off. I like being able to see the hammer, to know how much it's going to take on the trigger before that round goes off.

View Quote

I carry a Kahr P9, I'm in Texas also. Carrying the Kahr (double action only) is carrying the same way you carried your Ruger. It is essentially the same as carrying with the safety off and the hammer down on a loaded chamber. The only difference is that every shot will have the long heavy trigger pull, which is quite nice on the P9.

Posted: 5/29/2001 4:32:09 PM EDT

[#18]

OpaganO:
Years ago Jeff Cooper came up with numbered 'conditions' of carry.
#1 Is fully loaded, cocked and safety locked.
#2 Is fully loaded, UNcocked.
#3 Is Magazine loaded, chamber empty, hammer down.
And so on.

Some people have problems with carrying a gun with the hammer back. With a Kahr, there are no concerns: Theres only ONE way to carry it fully loaded. It is completely safe to carry it fully loaded, since like a revolver, the trigger MUST be pulled to fire it. There are no concerns about fumbling the safety or failing to get the hammer cocked. To use, it is only necessary to pull the trigger.

As to the "moonies". The inventor of the Kahr is Justin Moon, a son of the Rev. Moon. So what? I haven't had mobs of moonies rushing my door to enslave my mind.

Anybody drink Jack Daniels? The Kennedys own a piece of them.
Glock? Several stock owners were members of the SS.
Drink Seagrams? Some of the most liberal anti's in America and Canada own chuncks of them.
If you look into any company you will be surprised who owns what.

I'm not concerned about any of that, all I care is that the Kahr is one of the most inovative self defense guns to come along in years. I think enough of it to trust my life to it.

Posted: 5/29/2001 4:47:55 PM EDT

[#19]

Do yourself a favor and get a Glock 27 anf buy yourself a couple extra mags with the pierce grip finger extension.You will be able to carry worry free the rest of your life.DO NOT BUY THOSE P.O.S. MOONIE KAHR CRAP GUNS.OK Faris go right ahead and support the Facist moonie occult,I know I'll sleep well at night.But one day if your daughter comes home and says "I'm going to live with the reverends' ministry to be a fertile surrogate of love" go polish that MOONIE KAHR OF YOURS.

Posted: 5/29/2001 6:41:57 PM EDT

[#20]

Prepare to don tinfoil hats.
I thought we were discussing the merits of various handguns, not religion.

Posted: 5/29/2001 6:54:08 PM EDT

[#21]

Kahr,that way if you have problems with the moonies it would be kind of ironic.

Posted: 5/29/2001 7:45:58 PM EDT

[#22]

I recently read that KAHR purchased AutoOrdnance.
I see a big difference between the two types of guns mentioned here.
If you want a 1911 style pistol, maybe the higher quality of KAHR will show in the AutoOrdnance pistols...
Just a thought.

My suggestion: "Getta Beretta."

Posted: 5/29/2001 9:06:58 PM EDT

[#23]

Who the hell is justin moon???? facist?? do tell, i've never heard of these punks before.

curious lib

Posted: 5/29/2001 9:15:46 PM EDT

[#24]

I am shocked that you even put Kahr in the same thread as Llama!

[fakes outrage]

The cheek!

Posted: 5/30/2001 3:24:31 PM EDT

[#25]

I have a Kahr K40 and absolutely love the little feller. It is my daily carry piece, and it is basically not even there. I really don't give a crap about Sun Young Moon or Sum Yung Guy or whatever - about the only handgun made in modern times without some sort of 'checkered past' is a SIG.

FORGET LLAMA. Maybe you'll get a decent one, but chances aren't you won't. The two that I've owned in my life were total POS and passed through my hands like crap through a goose in less than a week after purchase as neither would have even made a good trotline weight.

By the way - I don't know how tall you are, but I carried a full house 1911 for many years off-duty while living in Texas (both Houston and Dallas). A Bianchi pistol pocket works well and can easily be covered by pulling your shirt tail out. [pistol]

Posted: 5/31/2001 9:38:52 AM EDT

[#26]

(after being away for a coupla days)

I went back to the gun shop, looked around some more, and I think I'm going to go with a Charles Daly. They've got em for about $400, in various different models and calibers. Looks like a good gun, very small, but fits the hand nicely. Any experience ya'll have with a C-D would be nice, and I do appreciate all the input I've recieved so far.

Pagan

Posted: 5/31/2001 10:04:54 AM EDT

[#27]

Charles Daly has a pretty bad rep, check out garandman's post on "worst gun you ever bought" to hear a Daly owner's gripe.

Get the Kahr, the CD isn't going to be any better than the Llama.

Juggernaut[%(]

Posted: 5/31/2001 10:15:06 AM EDT

[#28]

The only draw back of the Kahr P9 is that you may forget you are carrying it!!!!!!!

Light as a feather, but shoots very nicely as well - not too much recoil.

Is as accurate as my Sig 229.

If they ever make a Kahr in .40 and polymer frame with more that 7 rounds, I'm getting it.

Or maybe I'll just get a Sig 2340.

Posted: 5/31/2001 11:14:49 AM EDT

[#29]

OpaganO,

I'm sorry but you asked about a weapon for concealed carry. That means not just a gun you're willing to own but one your willing to bet your life on.

Of the 2 models you inquired about one got several nods from a presumably well informed audience, while the other was generally thought a POS.

Now, you are intereseted in another POS. I have to ask if you were going to ignore the good advice you got here and buy a POS, why bother asking?

Given a $500 budget there are any number of excellent choices for concealed carry. Llama and Charles Daly aren't even in the running.

For your $500 the Kahr would be a decent choice, but if you buy used you can have your pick of SIG, HK, Glock, a universe of 1911 variants from Springfield or Kimber, not to mention a host of top quality wheel guns and remain real close to $500.

I fail to see why you'd choose some fecal matter to defend your life.

Posted: 5/31/2001 12:07:20 PM EDT

[#30]

The charles daly is a decent shooter. Just keep in mind they are a "cheap" pistol. From my experience they do not hold up well if you shoot alot. If this is strictly a carry peice fine. My experience has been they do feed reliably and go bang when you pull the trigger. Just don't expect them to go a thousand rounds without some significant wear and tear.
Given you have 500.00 or so to spend i would also recommend a base kimber or springfield if you don't go glock.

Posted: 5/31/2001 12:26:06 PM EDT

[#31]

I get this mag called "Gun Tests" and the Charles Daly is rated a "Don't Buy" pretty much all across the board.

FWIW, Gun TEsts gets all their funding from subscriptions, NOT from ads or manufacturers.

Hence, I tend to trust them.

Posted: 5/31/2001 2:20:01 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
The only draw back of the Kahr P9 is that you may forget you are carrying it!!!!!!!

Light as a feather, but shoots very nicely as well - not too much recoil.

Is as accurate as my Sig 229.

If they ever make a Kahr in .40 and polymer frame with more that 7 rounds, I'm getting it.

Or maybe I'll just get a Sig 2340.

View Quote

How about usp compact/357 sig?

Posted: 6/2/2001 9:51:38 AM EDT

[#33]

I'd go with the Kahr. They have come out with a .40 with a plastic frame. You should check it out as well.

http://www.kahr.com/

I'm planning to get a .40 plastic framed Kahr. It will be on the CA DOJ list around the end of July.

Also... check out the Keltec guns. I know you first response would be "Keltec?" (with a "Dude are you crazy look?" on your face). But their .32 has gotten good reviews and they have 9mm and .40 versions.

http://www.kel-tec.com/

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Llama, Kahr, or . . neither

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