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Posted: 5/28/2001 7:31:07 PM EDT
The bear is 100 yards away and charging, running is NOT an option. Depending what gun you had how Many Shots To Stop A Grizzly Bear With the following guns under this situation? 9mm? 45? 223? 308?
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:34:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2001 7:32:18 PM EDT by Jewbroni]
Good question, let's assume a North American brown bear: .308 - Two or three shots to the torso, or one to the head, should put the big guy down. .223 - Empty at least half a dozen rounds into his torso, or one or two in the cranium, and it would be an instant kill. .45 - While not as accurate as the .223, it's a good stopping round, and a full clip of 8 should do the trick within the 50 yard range. 9mm - Um...he's 100 yards away? And he's charging? Unless you're carrying a high-capacity 50 round magazine, piss your pants, throw your glock at the brute, and run until he mauls you. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:36:24 PM EDT
This situation sounds like the story I heard once. The hunter had been chased to the edge of a cliff. The only thing left to do was to pray. "Please God, make this bear a Christian." implored the hunter. Suddenly there was a blinding light and tremendous thunder clap. The bear startles, stands up and looks around. Then gets down on his knees, folds his paws. "Thank you Lord for this food I am about to receive." [:D]
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:38:19 PM EDT
I don't know......go ask Mr. Owl. [:P]
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:39:53 PM EDT
9mm-R.I.P. lol 45-dont care to find out lol 223-just keep firing,... 308-hope for a head shot lol
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:40:31 PM EDT
Don't know-- in suspended field trials, one of my friends was laying out roads on Kodiak, AK. He and his Kiwi partner were charged by one (1) irritated sow brown bear. Said Kiwi was mauled slightly, but he sounded like a prick anyway. My friend emptied a 10 round magazine out of a Ruger p90 at the bear at Close Bear Quarters (CBQ). Don't know how many hit, but I do not think him much of a pistoleer. Bear was not especially bothered by the 147 grain bullets, but the attack stopped. Curse that Sarah Brady. If only my friend had had the full 15 rounds, that sow would have toppled over....
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:45:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By madmedic: 9mm-R.I.P. lol 45-dont care to find out lol 223-just keep firing,... 308-hope for a head shot lol
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"Hope for a headshot". Well I guess the question would be what GUN would you want to take it down with? Certainly not a bolt-action, you'd only get two good shots in before he was within CQB range, and that's pressing your luck. An M14 (preferable), HK91 (heavy, but useful), or an FN FAL would be my .308 choice. My ultimate choice, though, would be my AR15 with a 30rd clip of FMJ's. They might not put a big hole inside of the bear, but damn will they tumble and cause some terrible pain. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:48:54 PM EDT
How about this same question with a .22 LR, or a .25 ACP?? I think I would be for pointing the gun at myself.... lol
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:50:13 PM EDT
BTW, any of you guys want to experiment, there are some brown bears over at Washington State University in Pullman. Go ahead and try out those vaunted .45 slugs, all 8 of 'em. Just make sure someone is video taping the trial, and make sure you file off that front sight first. About 15 years ago, two NYPD officers shot up two polar bears at the Bronx Zoo, because they believed that three kids who had jumped the fence in the enclosure might still be alive. As I recall it took 22 slugs from 12 guage shotguns to dispatch the two bears to the Great Chicken House. Now I am sure that poor shot placement might have been a factor, but 22 shots of 1 oz slug-- Hmmm, those things really *are* the biological equivelant of tanks aren't they?
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:53:05 PM EDT
This question makes my case for using the DSA Carbine in .308 for a hunting rifle. I figured with the 5-round hunting magazine in place, it's legal. With a 10 or 20-round magazine handy, it's a weapon to be used for self-defense from predators with 2 or more legs... I may have to get a DSA Carbine. For now, my Remington 7400 Carbine in .30-06 with the 10-round extra magazine will just have to do.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:55:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2001 7:54:25 PM EDT by shaggy]
This reminds me of an article a few years ago in Machinegun News about using short barreled shotguns for bear protection in Alaska. According to the article, if you are going to use a handgun against a bear, you should be sure to grind off the front sight as it won't hurt so much when the bear shoves it up your ass. The idea of using those "Dragon's Breath" incendiary shotguns rounds was discussed, but if you are being charged by a bear, being charged by a pissed off bear on fire isn't going to be much of an improvement in your situation. Personally, I don't think I'd trust anything short of a full auto .223 or .308 with a minimum of 20rds.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:56:59 PM EDT
Speculation? Bears don't usually charge from 100 yards. They are usually a whole lot closer when they finally make up their mind to do so....I would not go into bear country without a large Counter Assault Bear Spray and a .458 Win Mag or something close to it. A good 12 gauge with quality slugs apparently works well. Read Larry Kaniut's Alaska Bear Tales. When they decide to come on in...it is get serious time!! Bears will often approach closely to survey a situation...and then run off. I would hate to shoot one that did not have bad intentions...hence the need for serious last minute firepower. Lived in Alaska 18 years and never had a serious encounter.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:59:22 PM EDT
This is what we think of this scenario in Wyoming. You had better not shoot until he is in your lap, or at least has some tooth marks in ya, or you can write off your gun, truck, money, and time, to the game and fish! Seriously, Have two friends with close encounters with grizzly. One shot and dropped a big sow at 20ft with a 7mm Rem mag. One shot. The other, luckly used the bear spray at 20ft on a charging bear and lived to tell about it, the bear also lived. He did have back up from a friend who had a .44mag incase the spray didn't work. As for your question. The .308, in the right place, at close range, probably; but I wouldn't want to bet my life on it. The others; would only piss him off! Your 9mm, .45, please, the .223, good luck!! Remember that bear can cover 50yds in less than 4 seconds. You might get ONE aimed shot in that time! guns762
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 7:59:26 PM EDT
I read an article by a guide in Alaska. He said that it took one client 18 shots with a 300 Win Mag to kill a brown bear. Good luck with a 223 or 45. Ustulina, I remember hearing about that incident with the polar bears at the Bronx Zoo. Gruesome.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:00:33 PM EDT
Maybe a belt fed M-60 ??
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:01:04 PM EDT
How about this same question with a .22 LR, or a .25 ACP??
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I dunno. With an American 180 you could dump 275rds of .22LR into him in 10seconds flat. Might not kill him, but would probably be enough to deter him.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:05:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JonnieGTyler: This situation sounds like the story I heard once. The hunter had been chased to the edge of a cliff. The only thing left to do was to pray. "Please God, make this bear a Christian." implored the hunter. Suddenly there was a blinding light and tremendous thunder clap. The bear startles, stands up and looks around. Then gets down on his knees, folds his paws. "Thank you Lord for this food I am about to receive." [:D]
View Quote
Here's the classic: Two guys are hiking in the mountains and suddenly see a grizzly charging towards them. One guy sits down on a rock and starts changing his hiking boots for running shoes. "What the hell are you doing?" asks the other guy, "Those shoes aren't going to let you outrun a grizzly!" To which the first guy replies, "Who said I was going to outrun the bear? I just need to outrun YOU."
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:07:56 PM EDT
Yeah see, those solutions like carrying serious firepower like the African rifles have one big drawback if you have to do any legwork away from boats or vehicles: They are heavy and awkward. I guess I normally wouldn't head into serious bear country unless I had gainful employment there. And then I would want to have a two man team, one to do work, and one, um, *gunner* As for the Dragon's Breath, it couldn't hurt to try. But the same buddy has a videotape of his time hanging out at the local dump, and there are bears and fires everywhere, and sometimes the bear is sitting on the fire, and the bear don't seem to care.... I don't think there are any hard and fast answers to bears. I think they are cool critters, and I'd say leave 'em be whenever possible.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:11:34 PM EDT
.454 Casull, or similar huge caliber, on your hip, ready to rock & roll. By the time you realize you're in trouble, and get the rifle in a firing position, the bear will be so close you might as well only have a hand gun. If the bear gets on top of you, the rifle will probably also be useless. The round better be powerful enough to discourage the bear with one or two shots, because that's all the time you'll have.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:16:48 PM EDT
9mm = 1,000 rds 45 = 100 rds 223 = 10 rds 308 = 1
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:21:05 PM EDT
Umm... Wouldn't it all depend on how well you shot. Personally I would wait till it was about 25 yards away ans then empty my clip or mag. At least I would have a chance at a head shot with the weak handguns. A .223 will go through the head at 100 yards and you will have that in a rifle i would imagine so you could go ahead and start shooting.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:24:40 PM EDT
Those bears really can move fast. Once when I was about 16 I was on the back part of my dad's property when I suddenly heard a strange sound. It kept getting louder and sounded just like a horse's hooves beating the ground. Finally I saw a medium sized black bear coming in my direction though the tall weeds in the overgrown hayfield. I probably had either my air rifle or slingshot with me (always being prepared for such occasions) but before I could move the thing went right past me about 20 yards away, paused on a log pile to look around, and took off into the woods. Some neighbors about 1/2 mile down the road were shooting .22's and had scared the heck out of that bear. I'll never try to outrun one.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:44:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2001 8:44:56 PM EDT by dissipator556]
I'm going for the one-shot stop with a center-of-mass impact from a .50BMG round. I don't think Smoky would get up from that one. If he did, then I would pray for a MK19. Those HEDP 40mm rounds should do him in. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:48:40 PM EDT
I would bet it would take 10 rounds plus of any round. Most people would wet their pants and only half of the shots fired would even hit.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:52:41 PM EDT
Read "Mark of the Grizzly", by Scott McMillion. It has a bunch of graphic stories of bear maulings, and lets you know what not to do. The writer has an anti-gun bias, possibly due to to the fact that firearms are often ineffective against grizzly attacks, and you end up with a wounded bear and a dead shooter. He recommends bear-grade pepper spray. Anyway, it's a good read.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:53:11 PM EDT
When in Bear Country, walk softly and carry a Barrett M82.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 8:55:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:37:25 AM EDT
If this isn't the biggest bunch of BS that has popped up here in a long time! How many of you couch commandos who have responded to this have actually stopped a charging grizzly with a 9mm or for that matter any caliber?
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 2:32:49 AM EDT
Couch commandos. Speaking from personal experience are you? This topic was (hopefully) meant in fun and nothing else. Noone in their right mind goes to bear country with a 9 mil. Ease up.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 3:05:30 AM EDT
I'd do it with a .22LR- One shot- Into my own mouth. That way the bear would stop charging and just mosey up to eat me and I wouldn't feel a thing.[xx(]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 6:41:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2001 6:43:11 AM EDT by Derek45]
[whacko] Any idiot who tries to use a 9mm or .223 on a grizzly bear DESERVES to be MAULED by the BEAR ! [X] Last fall I shot a deer with a 12ga. slug. The slug went through both lungs, heart, and nearly removed his front leg. It was loosly hanging on. This spike buck ran about 100yards ( on 3 legs)after I hit it. [shotgun] Save you .223 poodleshooter for coyotes and groundhogs.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 6:59:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2001 7:00:44 AM EDT by guns762]
Most people who spend any time in grizz country carry a few different types of protection. When I go hunting in the areas surrounding Yellowstone, I always carry my .338win mag for game, either black bear, deer or elk. My loads consist of 250gr. Sierra GK's infront of 71gr. of IMR4831 @2800fps. I also carry a .44mag with 270gr speer gold dots, infront of 21 1/2gr. or H110, @1400fps. Most people think the .44mag is minimum at best. Many people carry a 12ga. Defender style shotgun with slugs. I don't know if I agree with this, but there are quite a few people around here that swear by this combo. Finally, probably the most successful type of protection, bear spray! But at $50 a pop its pricey! One other interesting fact about the grizz that most people forget is that it can also out run your horse! That's fast! Most people usually don't see or even here the charging grizzly until it's too late, about 20-30yds max. One last sad note. The most photographed grizzly in Yellowstone was killed two weeks ago by a U.S. Forest Service truck, exceeding the speed limit! Her yearling cub, then got scared and jumped off the 50ft bridge they were on. He ran away wounded and has not been found to check on his injuries. A friend photographed her the day before, pictures are fantastic. guns762
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 7:04:58 AM EDT
For a great "tough guy" story, read about Hugh Glass. Was mauled and left for dead. Dragged himself like 200 miles to help. Got fixed up then went after the guys who left him.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 7:23:09 AM EDT
To heck with all the calibers mentioned. Give me an M1 Garand. I should be able to stop him with an 8 round clip of 30-06.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 8:00:47 AM EDT
Browning M2.... 9mm - Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye .45 - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA .223 - You kidding? .308 - Yeah, right!
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 8:56:23 AM EDT
Knew of a bear that was stopped by ten shots...but that was some really badass tequila, though.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 9:01:47 AM EDT
FALL BACK,BUG OUT AND NUKE EM FROM ORBIT!!!! it's the only way to be sure.... [x]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 1:58:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 2:18:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Captain Obvious: How about this same question with a .22 LR, or a .25 ACP?? I think I would be for pointing the gun at myself.... lol
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Same for the 9, probably the 45 too!......i have an old box of 32 win special (30`s maybe?) that has an image of a grizzly in "attack" stance....gives the impression that the round is "it" for n. american big game, and i guess at one time it WAS considered so by some.....can you imagine it? them guys must have really been good runners!!!!!...[smoke]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 2:48:51 PM EDT
50 dollars for bear spray would be cheap compaired to the medical and phisical therapy bills if you survive imo. As far as calibers and firearms excluding anything you would need a tax stamp for, I think one of S&W's mountain guns with some spicy hollow point reloads in 44 mag or 45 colt or perhapse somthing of similar size in 50ae would do nicely. if its not short,light,handy and throwing a big chunk of lead you might as well coat yourself in bbq sauce
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 2:54:56 PM EDT
Like a 454 casull...but six might not be enough......you`d have to hit em` in the eye`..............[whacko]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 3:43:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2001 3:45:25 PM EDT by waltere]
Perhaps one or two of our AK members can shed better light on this subject. However, I do hunt out near the Canadian boarder about 250 miles east of Fairbanks just about every year and... 1st with those loads, one could probably just kiss his ass goodby... especialy if going for a head shot. Never never go for the head! Much better off to attempt a shot(s) into the chest/neck area. Their heads are like IRON! All depends on what angle one has. When charging head-on? Aim for the chest (providing that you're not shaking so bad that you can aim in the first place). I carry my 12 gauge with a .45 for back up but then, my son is always with me (he lives in Fairbanks) and he carries a .44 mag that I gave him and a 300 Winchester mag. My son's father-in-law (a native) has shot several... all with a 30-06 and 180 grain loads. I know of one documented case of a griz being killed with a .22. An old friend now heads our re-introduction program for these animals in the U.S. and Chris (Servheen) said that when trapping some bears several years ago one chased a fellow who tripped next to a tree. When the guy turned and looked back, the bear was coming right down nearly on top of him so he pulled a .22 pistol and emptied it into the bear's mouth. The bear fell dead at the guy's feet. Is true! For a period of time during my evil past, I cared for polar,griz, brown, black, sloth and Malaysian sun bears. My .02 [8D]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 4:01:38 PM EDT
9mm? Thinks he's being bit by Misquitos 45? Thinks he's being stung by bees 223? Wonders what all the noise is about 308? Feels a sharp pain....Thinks he's had too much to eat today. Personally, I carry a Ruger SuperRedhawk in 454 Casull with all brass loads on hip & a Mossberg 12ga 00buck when I'm out fishing. I have seen a .308 bounce off a Bear skull during a hunt a few years back. They are big guys, just don't bother them & they won't bother you. I have shared the same fishing hole with them many times without a problem.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 4:10:06 PM EDT
I've been stationed in Alaska for the last four years and you'd be hard pressed to stop a Griz with one shot from a .308. A Griz's skull is unbelievably thick. A lot of people up here won't even look at a weapon unless it's chambered a .300 win mag or above. I don't here of many people hunting with .308's up here. Maybe if you're lucky you could stop him with one shot but you're not going to kill him where he stands.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 4:40:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fuzzbean: Here's the classic: Two guys are hiking in the mountains and suddenly see a grizzly charging towards them. One guy sits down on a rock and starts changing his hiking boots for running shoes. "What the hell are you doing?" asks the other guy, "Those shoes aren't going to let you outrun a grizzly!" To which the first guy replies, "Who said I was going to outrun the bear? I just need to outrun YOU."
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My work pard. was stationed in Alaska for several years. When someone asked what he carried for bears he would answer "a .22 pistol. I believe in the buddy system." He was just insureing the above method. [:D] [:D] Actually, he carried a .44 mag Redhawk.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 6:14:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2001 6:13:49 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 7:26:36 PM EDT
what ever happened to trowing rocks and running? [:\]
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 8:23:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2001 8:28:02 PM EDT by Son of Liberty]
I lived and hunted in Alaska for 6 years, and if I had any feeling I was going to run into a grizzly, I would have nothing less than a 7mm Mag, and would MUCH rather have a 300 or 338 Mag or even a 375. I have a friend in AK that shot his AK grizzly with a 7mm and put it down in 2 shots. He had to clean out his shorts afterward. [:D] It was 10' 2" nose to tail, and 10' 6" tip to tip on the claws, and hides shrink when they are tanned! There are bigger, but that's plenty big enough for me! As they say in AK, if you have to use a handgun against a grizzly, make sure to save the last round for yourself. Probably the only exception is 454. 44 Mag is marginal. SOL
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 8:29:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ET3 NotReally: what ever happened to trowing rocks and running? [:\]
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The grizzly will bite off your legs to stop you from running and bite off your arms to stop you from throwing rocks. Then it will probably bite off your head to stop that annoying screaming. The "throwing things" approach is better for black bears. If your not sure what kind of bear it is, look at its droppings, if there are fingers and rocks in it, it is probably a grizzly.
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 8:37:22 PM EDT
What's up with all these people saying ".223 - you're a dead man"? I'm thinking if he's 100 yards away, then you should easily be able to pop a few rounds into his head with an AR15 (at least *I* could). They might not kill in the first shot or two, but I gauran-damn-tee that a headshot is going to penetrate something vital and possibly mortally wound the bear in just a single shot. Sure, it's a grizzly, but we're not dealing with damn rhinos here. I'd be damn surprised if 30rds outta my AR wouldn't stop the bear. Of course, I'd rather just not be in the situation to find out. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 5/29/2001 8:56:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jewbroni: What's up with all these people saying ".223 - you're a dead man"? I'm thinking if he's 100 yards away, then you should easily be able to pop a few rounds into his head with an AR15 (at least *I* could). They might not kill in the first shot or two, but I gauran-damn-tee that a headshot is going to penetrate something vital and possibly mortally wound the bear in just a single shot. Sure, it's a grizzly, but we're not dealing with damn rhinos here. I'd be damn surprised if 30rds outta my AR wouldn't stop the bear. Of course, I'd rather just not be in the situation to find out. Jewbroni~
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I hope you can get 30 rounds on target in 8 seconds or less while shitting your pants.[whacko] [uzi]
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