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Posted: 5/21/2001 9:33:10 AM EDT
I live in a military town and i just dont think the U.S. Army is all its cracked up to be a least not in urban fighting. every where i go i see some GI wearing gansta clothes and hagin with da homies its like the getto its one of the reasons i got out plus less then 50% of 1% of the population joins the military and the one that do im gratful for but they need to clean up there act.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:36:58 AM EDT
First off------FTA Second- there are many units that have their collective shyte together
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:42:06 AM EDT
I see you live in Oklahoma. I'll bet the base you live near is doing basic training. Alot of the kids you see are young soldiers who haven't been in the Army long. As a soldier myself I hate it when someone badmouths the Army. Maybe you should of stayed in and tried to make a difference.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:50:37 AM EDT
thats right but i was stationed here and if they are in basic (i went here in 95 and my brother in-law in 2000) they lock up your clothes ..im talkin permanent party. and as to why i didnt stay in here goes.. i knew my job i did my job but if a soldier could run a 13min two mile he was a super soldier he probably didnt know his job had to have constant supervision and couldnt shoot or fight but he could run and since i could only run in the high 14's and low 15's i was week... i love the military as an institution but if an e-4 tells an e-1 what to do the answer is ussually @#$% off. i see the marines stationed here and they dont act this way plus from talking to friends ym point is the army needs to change and being as i was only E-4 you know i couldnt affect crap that stuff is control by people not even in the military
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:51:28 AM EDT
I don't believe there are any posts in OK that offer basic. Probably Ft. Sill, Artillery Training school. A lot of people join the Armed Forces because they are always hiring. With unemployment at an all time low that says a lot about the cadre of recruits.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:55:47 AM EDT
They don't let their recruits out on the town during basic training, do they? From what I understand, in the Army if you want some hard training and "esprit de corps" you have to try out for the Rangers, Airborne, or one of the other units that still maintain high standards and military discipline. Oh, wait, all of you guys are getting those elite berets, right? Never mind.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:00:47 AM EDT
...semper fi, Gus
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:03:04 AM EDT
First of all, not all soldiers act or look this way. These are not real soldiers you are seeing, but people playing soldier. The Army is a great institution and its usually people who've never served that badmouth it. I hope you sleep well at night, I know I do.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:03:06 AM EDT
Gung ho!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:09:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ABN-RGR: First of all, not all soldiers act or look this way. These are not real soldiers you are seeing, but people playing soldier. The Army is a great institution and its usually people who've never served that badmouth it. I hope you sleep well at night, I know I do.
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So there are no problems with training, discipline, and leadership? I think, from what I've read, that the rank and file have been let down by their political generals who spent the last eight years kissing up to Clinton to preserve their careers.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:13:11 AM EDT
As a retired brokendown old infantryman, no,you don't have to go ranger,SF, Delta, or even airborne. But you do have to love what you are doing and you have to love the troops even when thay piss you off to no end. And you Have to EARN their respect. Some think that take's big man sizewise, not even. I lead a Mech infantry plt in the gulf war, I am 5'9" and 165lbs, and the guys would have followed me to hell. Course I had the plt for awhile before the war. The LT kind of kept his mouth shut and went to the meetings:). The Army has fallen on hard times and needs to be built back up to the Reagan years levels IMHO. Rew
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:14:03 AM EDT
Like you said Gus, You have to be in the right units. Morale is low because of all the PC bullsh@t. I still think the U.S Army is the best Army the world will ever see. It just takes a few bad apples to give the public a bad taste about the Army.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:20:13 AM EDT
You know what I'd like to see? A truely professional Army (and Marine Corps) in the place of the "job-training program" we have today.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:13:20 PM EDT
I also stationed here at Fort Sill. I have been told that this is not what the "real army" is like by my office mates that are in the army. I can only pray that is true. There is a general lack of discipline in most of the troops stationed here. I am told that although 3rd Corps Arty is here, most on the base act like this is not a combat base. There are truly a lot of civilians in uniform running around this base. PT often involves a Battery (+) out of every Battalion that is on profile, we would either discharge them or charge most of them with malingering in the Marine Corps. There are a lot of cases of Dunlop's diseases around here. But since the soldiers are this post are not grunts, and the army is very parochial when it comes to specific duties, I wouldn't judge army infantry by the artillerymen that run around here. Recruits at recruit training are allowed to have an on base pass on their 3rd week of training. They are allowed to go out to the mall on the Sunday prior to their graduation.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:17:52 PM EDT
First...I was in the Army. Second...You don't know what the hell you are talking about. Third...KMA! Forth...I don't really care what your reaction is!!! Fifth...KMA!!! Newbie!!!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:27:49 PM EDT
Halfcocked. Ft. Sill does have basic training also. I have seen what he is talking about outside the Ft. in Lawton and it does seem to be worse than other military towns that I have been to.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:29:16 PM EDT
I think burn forgot the T.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:47:39 PM EDT
I can always count on these type topics to give me a good laugh. In view of the blatant ignorance, never felt any of them are worth my time, but I do happen to have a minute to waste right now, which is exactly what I'm doing by responding. Can't tell you how many prior service would come into the recruiting station, talking the same stuff. After all the talk and stories, ends up THEY couldn't maintain the minimum requirements, or plain F$%KED-UP, and got the boot. But you would never know from the story that they tell. Haven't run into a MARINE, SAILOR, or AIRMAN in my 18 years that impressed me to where I felt my service/branch was lacking. The mission is being accomplished now, as it was at the beginning, as it will be in the future. There are enough of us that actually [b]make a difference[/b] who will compensate for those that b@tch why [b]they can't[/b] and can't even take care of [u]themselves[/u]. Individuals not at the required "norm" will be found in ALL services, just as they are found in society. What's the mystery here ? As for this supposed terrible state of affairs in your world that you talk about, what are/have *YOU* doing/done about it ? You want to know how you can make things better in your world, and not just in the military ? Start by setting the example. Take care of YOURSELF, then you can worry about others. You don't have to be a CSM, a GEN, or CEO to do this, and you WILL make a difference. Can't handle that ? Solution's simple. Get out when your enlistment's up, or if you're not in the military, talk s$%t on these boards. Remember to tell the WHOLE story next time you want to talk about how your extensive experience allowed you to make such a "detailed" assessment of a 500,000+ man force. Damn, can't believe I wasted effort on this .... Chris
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 7:24:29 PM EDT
Amen Brother
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 7:42:11 PM EDT
I enlisted in the USMC did my four years.I had a strange belief that I owed this country something, then I did four more in the Army Guard(to pay for college). Did my job and did it well. I met shitbirds, knuckleheads, criminals, professionals, patriots and some really fine people. The point is the armed services are a reflection of our society and people take their popular culture and work ethics with them where ever they go. I believe its a different generation. Not any less capable just different. I got out, I moved on. Give it a try, Burn.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 8:27:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gus Laskaris: They don't let their recruits out on the town during basic training, do they? From what I understand, in the Army if you want some hard training and "esprit de corps" you have to try out for the Rangers, Airborne, or one of the other units that still maintain high standards and military discipline. Oh, wait, all of you guys are getting those elite berets, right? Never mind.
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Do me a favor [b]Gus[/b]. Don't try to understand the Army, as I sure as hell am not needing to understand the Marines. Your perceptions of the Army are about the same as my perceptions would be about the Marines, which is why I don't waste anyone's time posting them. Oh, wait, Marines are getting those "elite" BDU's, right ? Chris
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 8:44:36 PM EDT
Yeah, but at least we're not trying to pretend we're Navy Seals, which is the equivalent of some Army Truck Driver wearing a Ranger Beret. On the same note, esprit de corps is a good thing if it is earned. It can not be handed out like milk and cookies for a "self esteem building" exercise. While the Marine Corps is far from perfect, at least our boys made an effort to resist the Clintonization of the military. Case in point, our leadership refused to implement coed basic training...in fact some generals threatened to resign over the issue. And I understand that, if anything, boot camp has been made a little harder than it used to be. (With a greater emphasis on hand to hand combat, not to mention "the crucible.") Why, I believe we even send all Marines, and not just grunts, to Infantry training. (Although the non-grunts only get a months worth.) What is there not to understand about the Army? You are led at the top by a pack of career suck-ups and yes-men. Fortunantly you still have a lot of hard-chargers in the lower ranks but they are (or were) being rapidly weeded out and replaced by racially and sexually sensitive "conflict facilitators" or some other Dale Carnegie induced abortion. Your recruiting, more importantly, your retention are down because young men enlist and are disillusioned by what they find. Again, the Marine Corps is not perfect, but we are not having quite the same problems. In fact, most Marines, myself included, get out because it is just too hard of a career to do for more than a couple of enlistments. In the infantry, anyways. I wouldn't even consider going into a softer MOS. So the reverse is true. The Army pusses out on its best soldiers and they leave in disgust. The Marine Corps grinds you up and spits you out. I am exagerating, of course. We have our pussies too. It's just that they aren't running the show.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 2:09:36 AM EDT
mrcr0603 Since I have trained both Army and Marine Officers I think I am in the position to comment on the both services. Is the Marine Corps perfect no? far from it. But we seemed to not have some of the same problems the army has and we have senior officers that are willing to say something is wrong. One of the biggest problem in today's army is that the recruiting is built around paying for college. I have Lts tell me that they cannot wait to get relieved as FDO, so they can get kicked out of the army so they can go to the civilian world. I have a former student, a USMA grad, who has told us he is eating his way out of the army, two years after graduating from that real expensive school he yet to go to a real unit. Than the any warm body aspect of the army is a bad problem, I have had two Lts that did not speak English to a degree that they where not literate. The Capt that instruct them tried to get them out of the army but the "counsel of colonels" said no, they stayed in and where allowed to go to the real army, these are guys that require a dictionary to pass tests written in 8th grade English. There is a reason that the term "power point ranger" has become standard in the army today. Pretty slides are all that people seem to carry about, they don't seem concerned that it took them 8 hours to put together a brief for an assault that they should have done hours ago, but the MDMP must be followed otherwise their OER will be center mass and not one blocks.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 2:20:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN: mrcr0603 I have had two Lts that did not speak English to a degree that they where not literate.
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What they did not take the ASVAB ?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:25:00 AM EDT
The problem with the Army and the rest of the military as well, is that it is a reflection of the corupt values of the socialist society we live in. Posession, position, power, popularity, prestige and vanity, (all self-interested) have replaced any higher sense of purpose then oneself. Altter from a friend and senior NCO:

drop you a line,  If we can make a difference in the overall additude in the guard twords Battle focus, train as you fight, perpare for war because thats what we do,  weapons marksmanship/ readiness is the tie that binds. the AG is not the soldier that has to use weapons it the enlisted soldier and fieldgrade officer.  Its time for the wake-up call. This can be done, but it's one soldier and one leader at a time.  I've already offended a few, and I'm not done by a long shot.  But when it comes down to it, the offended know we are right and great soldiers of the past and present agree with us. And my response: Bruce, "But when it comes down to it, the offended know we are right and great soldiers of the past and present agree with us." Your statement, while true, has little effect on them in the long term, as their individual corupt value driven agendas are of possession, position, power, prestige, and vanity. While you may have offended them, they will get over it quickly, as their deepest fundemental commitment is to their dishonorable selfish selves, and they will aspouse what ever dogma the most fashionable dog and pony show of the time dictates, as this is "right" from their perspective. Your friend, George

Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:35:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:50:17 AM EDT
What is an MDMP and an OER?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:06:58 AM EDT
Gus, You probably won't believe me, but I saw several "elite marines" wash out of Ranger School. I'm not trying to talk bad about the Marines, but I think you should understand what we put up with. 90% of us hate the idea of berets. We dont have a choice about it, we suck it up and drive on. Next time, look before you leap. We all wear green in the long run. Although the Marines green is soon going to be different from what I understand. RLTW
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:19:20 AM EDT
It looks like some people took me as bad mouthing the ARMY in not its a great institution but a lot of the soldiers here at Ft. Sill look like thugs. I joined the ARMY because i wanted to serve my country. I did and I got out to go into LE. IF your read my statements above you would see its about the thugs in the army not the "ARMY" case in point we arreasted an E-6 Staff Sgt. he had his pant down to his upper thighs wearing a shirt with marj leaves all over it and a red bandana lookin like an extra from "BOYZ IN THE HOOD". Is this the kind of look thats good for a military force? When i asked him his job he said it was to train soldiers to kill. the next day talking to his 1st SGT i found out he was a Supply SGT.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:21:02 AM EDT
No, I believe you. We have our share of non-hackers. I have nothing but respect for Rangers and other hard-charging Army units.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:45:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gus Laskaris: No, I believe you. We have our share of non-hackers. I have nothing but respect for Rangers and other hard-charging Army units.
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im not talking about rangers and hard core im talkin about PX rangers
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:18:58 PM EDT
OERs and NCOERs are the army's version of the Fitness Report. One blocks are their best scores, commanders can only give out a few of them though. This policy screws quite a few of the best and the brightest since they are often sent to the CTC. Since the supposed best and the brightest are all at one command being rated by the same raters, and only a few can get ranked high, the other really good troops look average. MDMP is the military decision making process, it is a long drawn out process that involves like 17 steps, to develop a plan. It can take from 8 hours to several days using the process. It is emphasized today because the need to show accomplishment in a peacetime military. If you can show you plan and brief well, than you must be able to lead and fight well. Officers are not required to take the ASVAB. Normally the only ones that have ASVAB scores are prior enlisted or those that took them as part of some stage to becoming enlisted. The army's policy is that the possession of a college degree on its own is qualification for commissioning. Unfortunately the Marine Corps adopted this same policy last year. Prior to that you had to have a GT score of at least 124 if you where a non-minority. If you never took an ASVAB than they would use a conversion from either you SATs or your ACTs to create an equivalent to a GT score.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:42:46 PM EDT
It seems like the Marines are always talking down the Army, but if they really think that bad of it they should quit using Army schools like Artillery, Airborne, Ranger, Air Assault, SF, and Pathfinders. Where would Force Recon and some of the other units get their training then?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 6:19:12 PM EDT
03 here are some facts on why we go to army schools. The biggest being money, it cost a lot to run a school. We use to have our own Armor, Artillery, Jump and pathfinders schools but they where went away a long time ago either because of cost or because only a few Marines go to them, whey run a school if you will only have a class of 3 or 4 people a year for it. Here at the FA school the Marines don't pay for training since we run our own school within the Army school. Only our officers go to the army artillery school. Since the majority of instructors in 2 of the 3 depts that train officers are Marines, the school would have to shut down if we weren't here. We occasionally send Marines to Air Assault school, but in normally all Marines, at least those in the infantry and quite a few in artillery are locally trained on air Assault ops, its is normal thing we do as part of a MAGTF and don't think a lot of training is required. We normally don't send people to SF training since that is not our mission. Ranger school is a leadership school and is not really considered a tactical training school (all the same TTP are taught within the infantry schools and FMF infantry battalions (and to quote on of the SPC in my TBS company "the only thing I learned at Ranger school was that being hungry and tired all the time sucked) for Marines. Recon Marines get their "recon" training at the Amphibious Reconnaissance Course, they later go to other schools civilian and DOD wide for additional training. It is not a matter of think bad about the army it is a matter of having higher standards and maintaining them. Those units in the army that maintain similar standards, you don't here Marines complaining about.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 6:46:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mrcr0603: I can always count on these type topics to give me a good laugh. In view of the blatant ignorance, never felt any of them are worth my time, but I do happen to have a minute to waste right now, which is exactly what I'm doing by responding. Can't tell you how many prior service would come into the recruiting station, talking the same stuff. After all the talk and stories, ends up THEY couldn't maintain the minimum requirements, or plain F$%KED-UP, and got the boot. But you would never know from the story that they tell. Haven't run into a MARINE, SAILOR, or AIRMAN in my 18 years that impressed me to where I felt my service/branch was lacking. The mission is being accomplished now, as it was at the beginning, as it will be in the future. There are enough of us that actually [b]make a difference[/b] who will compensate for those that b@tch why [b]they can't[/b] and can't even take care of [u]themselves[/u]. Individuals not at the required "norm" will be found in ALL services, just as they are found in society. What's the mystery here ? As for this supposed terrible state of affairs in your world that you talk about, what are/have *YOU* doing/done about it ? You want to know how you can make things better in your world, and not just in the military ? Start by setting the example. Take care of YOURSELF, then you can worry about others. You don't have to be a CSM, a GEN, or CEO to do this, and you WILL make a difference. Can't handle that ? Solution's simple. Get out when your enlistment's up, or if you're not in the military, talk s$%t on these boards. Remember to tell the WHOLE story next time you want to talk about how your extensive experience allowed you to make such a "detailed" assessment of a 500,000+ man force. [Damn, can't believe I wasted effort on this ....] Well said Chris, and your effort was not wasted. Augie Chris
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Link Posted: 5/22/2001 9:46:09 PM EDT
If I may add to what STLRN said, as an infantryman, I went to the Infantry Squad Leader Course which the Army would probably consider elite training but for the Marines is normal training for corporals and above. If you subtract out "jump training" it is probabaly the rough equivalent of ranger training as we spent four weeks learning patrolling, tactics, leadership, indirect fire, close combat, and a few other things. (Which is not to say that you only learn these things at the Squad Leader Course) And we don't get a special badge or "tab" for it either. Actually, nobody cares unless you fail out. A certain level of competance is just expected. I don't want to imply that I was a perfect Marine or "Billy Bad-ass." There were plenty of times when, as a leader and a Marine i fell short of the ideal. But the key point here is that we have some ideals and are not quick to lower our standards to foster self-esteem. (I was near the bottom of my class at the Squad Leader Course, but I made it. Likewise NCO School. I did "kick some ass" at NBC school)
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 7:20:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gus Laskaris: If I may add to what STLRN said, as an infantryman, I went to the Infantry Squad Leader Course which the Army would probably consider elite training but for the Marines is normal training for corporals and above.
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[b]Probably ?[/b] How about probably [b]NOT[/b]. I definitely [b]DON'T[/b] share [b]YOUR[/b] estimation Gus.
If you subtract out "jump training" it is probabaly the rough equivalent of ranger training as we spent four weeks learning patrolling, tactics, leadership, indirect fire, close combat, and a few other things. (Which is not to say that you only learn these things at the Squad Leader Course)
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I'd like to hear from the Rangers on this board as to how "rough" your comparison is. Ranger was around even back in [u]your[/u] day, and I'm sure that it was THAT MUCH MORE of an a#s kicker than it is now. But I will say now .... your four week Squad Leader Course [b]IS NOT[/b] Ranger School by a long shot. Anyway you put it, it's a basic leadership course for lower enlisted, which means you're going to get your a#s SMOKED, branch immaterial. Either way, the same subjects are taught in the four weeks of the Primary Leadership Development Course (PLDC), which is normal training for E-4's and above.
And we don't get a special badge or "tab" for it either. Actually, nobody cares unless you fail out. A certain level of competance is just expected.
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Was the same when I went through PLDC at Fort Bragg, 1986. And you're mentioning "special badge"s ? Those MARINES with the scuba, ARMY parachutist, Marine parachutist BADGES certainly CARE about them.
I don't want to imply that I was a perfect Marine or "Billy Bad-ass." There were plenty of times when, as a leader and a Marine i fell short of the ideal. But the key point here is that we have some ideals and are not quick to lower our standards to foster self-esteem.
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Honor, discipline, and courage have [u]always[/u] been with us, and will [b]ALWAYS[/b] be, irregardless of your perception. They are what has carried soldiers through time, especially Panama, Desert Storm, and Somalia. It's [b]THE ARMY[/b] Gus, that's going to continue to be sent in to get the job done. [b]THAT'S[/b] the [u]bottom line[/u] .... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From what I've seen of this board, developing a clear, unbiased perception of an unfamiliar situation through the information posted here is impossible. One would NOT do themselves a favor by thinking otherwise. I [b]AM[/b] in the Army Gus, since 1983. I'm telling you that the Army picture is MUCH bigger, and MORE positive than the bitterness that is seen on this board .... Chris
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 7:25:32 AM EDT
again the topic wasnt to be against the ARMY pro se as an institution but against the the thug look alike contest that play soldiers...
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 9:34:59 AM EDT
My point is that Marine Corps training tends to be no-frills. That is, you may be doing something that the other services might consider specialized training but it is just routine. My company regularly trained for MOUT, small boat raids, NEO, and aircrew rescue, not to mention the routine of Arctic, Mountain, and Jungle warfare training. And again, I want to reiterate that I was not a sniper, recon, or anything else "high speed,low drag." I'm not trashing all you current and former hard-charging soldiers. But you've got to admit that there is a preception of weakness in the Army. From what I read, there are almost two seperate armies. And one of them is manned by non-hackers and "Power-point Rangers." BTW, how hard could jump school be? They send chicks through? Right? You are on a static line? Seems to me the only hard thing is getting the nerve up to jump out of the plane. Now, those guys who jump from 20,000 feet and open their parachutes five seconds before they hit the ground impress me. (HALO?)
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 9:48:44 AM EDT
Oh, just as an aside, at various gunshows I have met thousands of former SEALS, Green Berets, and Special Forces Soldiers. I have never met any former Rangers...but I expect I will because the Discovery channel has been broadcasting a lot of shows about them lately.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 9:56:37 AM EDT
attack of the PX rangers ..I was artillery with no other specialization
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:39:12 AM EDT
Well, I didn't go to Ranger School for a piece of cloth. I went to learn something about myself and become a more effective Soldier in my chosen field (Infantry). As far as how hard it was, I can only say I don't want to repeat it. It sounds to me like all the warriors have an opinion on this board and all the thugs originally described are too scared to pipe up. Rangers Lead The Way....Semper Fi....and all that other Hooooooah sh@t.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:41:19 AM EDT
if you went to the school kick ass..but if you didnt ...you are an ass. im not saying you did or didnt but you px patch types know who you are
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:45:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2001 12:36:23 PM EDT by ABN-RGR]
Gus, Send me your E-mail and I'll mail you a hilarious "Powere Point Ranger" presentation. We can even laugh at ourselves sometimes. By the way BURN, I didn't just make up this cool screen name. But I did in fact buy my tab at the PX. Last time I checked thats the only place you can buy them.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:52:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2001 11:52:48 AM EDT by Gus Laskaris]
glaskaris@wii.com or laskaris@cox-internet.com I hope you don't think I am "busting down" on the Rangers. In fact, the more I learn about them the more relieved I become that we still have cadres of well trained soldiers in the Army. We had our share of non-hackers and PX-commandos in the Marines, and I don't want to imply otherwise. Hell, we have the air wing. A good bunch of guys but not exactly your stereotypical Marines. The stories I could tell yo.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:56:40 AM EDT
If the Army and the Marine Corps ever stopped dogging each other, I would have to seriously consider my own sanity. The age old battle. I dont even bother wasting my time dogging the Air Force and Navy...HAHA. Seriously though, I have nothing but respect for ALL men and women that serve in the Armed Forces. That includes the thugs and non-hackers.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 12:20:18 PM EDT
There are no pay-phones, couches or soda machines in or near the squad bays of Parris Island. Somehow the Army has allowed this type of thing to infiltrate SOME of their Boot Camps. I think this is analogous, in general to the loosening of standards that has occured in the Army. (The Corp's standards have dropped too, just not as much) Elite units are elite units. That being said, every USMC infantry Co. deploys regularly. Many of these deploy as part of a MEU, or MEUSOC. When a MEU parks itself off of some country's coast, they fear. The Soviets used to tell their soldiers that to join the Marines, Americans had to first kill their mothers. This reputation was earned, and still is. Take your average USMC rifle company and compare them to ANY Army rifle company and you will see that there is no comparison. (...and let's not even talk about comparing logistics.)
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 12:37:35 PM EDT
Please tell me you didn't really kill your mom Major Murphy. I heard jarheads eat their young, but this mom thing is too much for me to handle....HEHEHE
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 12:42:41 PM EDT
...no, they gave me a waiver[;)]!
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 12:48:44 PM EDT
Not just PX ....Clothing and Sales has them too.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 1:00:15 PM EDT
just wanted my topic to be a hot topic
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