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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 5/21/2001 8:53:24 AM EDT
Allright, I'll admit, this UN gun-grab thing has me concerned. I see some pretty interesting SHTF topics: best gun, best load-out, etc. Here's my point. If the S really does HTF, how will we be able to tell the good guys from the bad guys? For the most part, this may be easy. Blue helmets, foreign uniforms, etc. But before long, things will degrade into guerilla tactics, and the US is not the only country with Special Forces personnel. So, what will be the technique to identify friend from foe? Obviously, the guys flashbanging your door would be a good clue as to their affiliation. What about the guy in my cross hairs at 400 yards?
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:08:41 AM EDT
Well, since we're both from TN I'll chime in with my .02. I think that those of us in largely rural areas/sates would not be the first to be affected by any UN backed gun grabbing initiative. Most likely large urban areas, being that they pose the greatest threat, would be the first to be hit. As to whether or not the UN would do it themselves with foreign or domestic soldiers or LE would be a good question. Still, I think that once this got started that word would spread so fast that within a matter of 30 minutes everyone would know what to look for. Scarry ain't it? The way I figure it the guys driving up my long drive in a patrol car or a UN marked vehicle or otherwise official looking vehicle would not be there to welcome me to their revival meetings. Ugly............it would get real ugly.......real bloody...........real costly and real scarry. I say that if the guy in your cross haris at 400 yds has a UN insignia anywhere on his person and especially if you've already heard of confiscation or other actions between the grabbers and the keepers then you should place one round right into his head and worry about the rest later. God help us all.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:16:29 AM EDT
probly the guy wearing the jack boots
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:18:22 AM EDT
Plug anyone in uniform. radioman
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:18:51 AM EDT
Well I would not be in my house, I have an FFL, and bet they know where I live! We have a bug out location that the family knows about, it is quite and a pretty place with fire lane's 360 degrees. Show up with a rifle and a uniform you are the enemy, period. Be more like 600 yards however. Unless I figger we will be passed buy with out being detected. Rew
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:23:49 AM EDT
Let's keep it going. Added: the uniform thing. I'd probably be in some form of camo, and would damn sure have a rifle. So if I'm on the move, trying to get to food, water, or just somewhere's else, I don't wanna be the guy in the (friendly) crosshairs. Besides, I hope to not be alone for very long. If I could get to a like-minded friend's (or fellow AR15.com'er's) location... Safety in numbers, etc.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:25:44 AM EDT
Do turkey hunters wear blaze orange? Sure some might wear UN insigna at first but once the hammer is dropped they will learn fast{or die in their stupidity}. In vietnam army special forces and navy seals sometimes dressed in black PJ's or enemy uniforms to make the enemy hesitate,even if only for a few seconds thats all it took to hit 'em or break contact. If it came to UN confiscation{are you talking about US gov. helping or not?}alot of countrys has good Specops that are battle hardened.And what if our gov is in on it to?I have no real desire to go up against Army secial forces, Army Delta force,Army Ranger,airborne/air assault,marine force recon or any others[SEAL's] are'nt a concern being I am in ohio and not near and large bodies of water}.And thats just US specops. Also what about our guys looking like them?How many of us have surplus gear or friends that do? It will make it that much harder if the US gov.is in alliance with UN.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:28:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sigman: Do turkey hunters wear blaze orange? Sure some might wear UN insigna at first but once the hammer is dropped they will learn fast{or die in their stupidity}. In vietnam army special forces and navy seals sometimes dressed in black PJ's or enemy uniforms to make the enemy hesitate,even if only for a few seconds thats all it took to hit 'em or break contact. If it came to UN confiscation{are you talking about US gov. helping or not?}alot of countrys has good Specops that are battle hardened.And what if our gov is in on it to?I have no real desire to go up against Army secial forces, Army Delta force,Army Ranger,airborne/air assault,marine force recon or any others[SEAL's] are'nt a concern being I am in ohio and not near and large bodies of water}.And thats just US specops. Also what about our guys looking like them?How many of us have surplus gear or friends that do? It will make it that much harder if the US gov.is in alliance with UN.
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Thanks, sigman. Exactly my point.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:29:34 AM EDT
If they run, they're bad guys. If they stand still, they're disciplined bad guys.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:30:05 AM EDT
yeah but most of are soilders are not battle hardened there only so much spec ops if they send private snuffie after me they will just have one less private. are army suks i got out of the army because it just like one big getto
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:33:37 AM EDT
Having personally felt the frustration of our Gov't's lack of willingness to loosen the ROE (Rules of Engagement) when operating overseas, I find it hard to believe that it would be even remotely possible that U.S. combat troops could ever be used on U.S. soil against U.S. citizens. UNLESS a very large (Civil War II) revolt took place. So put away the Tac-vests and the Rambo III knives, and clean the camo paint off of your faces before your Moms get home.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:35:46 AM EDT
but mom said i could play...........
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:39:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: Having personally felt the frustration of our Gov't's lack of willingness to loosen the ROE (Rules of Engagement) when operating overseas, I find it hard to believe that it would be even remotely possible that U.S. combat troops could ever be used on U.S. soil against U.S. citizens. UNLESS a very large (Civil War II) revolt took place. So put away the Tac-vests and the Rambo III knives, and clean the camo paint off of your faces before your Moms get home.
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(Still laughing) Yes, but keeping in the spirit of the "black helicopters" and SHTF, most believe that is the primary concern. The US is bound by law not to use the REGULAR Army / military on it's own soil. National Guardsman (including the 19th SFG out of WVNG) does not fall under this jurisdiction. Neither, does the rest of the UN.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:41:50 AM EDT
I have a rambo III knife, it is neat but way to large to carry, I also use cammo but not surpluse military, and I hate face paint. However I know a bit about warfare, I just won't have to put up with the rules of engagement anymore. I also like Sc-fi so what is your problem? Rew
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:57:17 AM EDT
Delta has gotten their butts kicked, Seal Team 6 got drowned Rangers got waxed SF-lots of mia,kia Air Assualt-ditto Point is, while they are very well trained soldiers they all have a weak point. Most of the time the weak point is communications and people giving the orders. JSOC might be a good thing but I still see problems. Main damn problem is interservice rivalry. Everyone wants a peice of the pie. SHTF?????? Anyone who looks like they are on a mission and are well armed. the UN will be very structured and will not last a protracted engagement with the citizens of this great country. I cant recall them having any specop type of unit. Even if they did, who is running the show as far as the S3 goes?
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:58:05 AM EDT
So let me see if I've got this straight. 1. The U.S. agrees to enact a complete ban on individual firearms ownership, because the UN votes says so. 2. Then, to avoid any legal difficulties(!!!???), we invite hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions of blue helmeted Pakistanis, Sudanese, French, Russian, Nigerian, etc. to INVADE OUR COUNTRY so that they can sweep the countryside, going house to house asking for your guns (with the help of our wily, yet un-patriotic National Guardsman Special Forces). We must assume that this would be an army of millions, after all, we've already fantasized, Oh, I'm sorry, DISCUSSED the possibility of this BLUE-HELMETED-MONGREL-HOARD actually sweeping as far as the woods of Tennesse and Colorodo. I apologize for being a little skeptical.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:00:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:01:03 AM EDT
Before it comes to the point that foreign troops invade I think the U.S. government will progress on it's agenda of gun control and public schools. For me, the first SHTF is when they try to take away the guns I have now or they force me to send my children to those rehabilitation camps they call government schools. In this case it will be the marines, army, and national guard used. During WWII we fought Japan and we through all the civilian Japanese in camps. American troops have already fought against americans. WWII, Waco, Ruby. How many of those troops/law enforcement refused? Prevent me from owning a rocket launcher? sure. Take away my flash hider and bayo lug? getting warm! Take away the last line of defense my family has and try to brainwash my children with your propaganda? No way!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:09:16 AM EDT
Major Murphy- A military, ours or others, won't sweep the U.S. unless they think they can be successful. Since it is their job to succeed I could safely assume they will succeed. Which is where the years of legislation and propaganda is useful. Get groups A and B to ban the weapons of group C. Get groups B and C to join and ban D. Get D and A to join and Ban B. Etc... Eventually they will come knocking, I will turn for my trusty firearm, and, holy crap, all that is left is a .22. I empty the 10 round mag at them but before I can flip it over and load the other mag they aprehend me. Whammo, operation succesful.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:19:41 AM EDT
In an article on SierraTimes.Com, a long while back, it was suggested that we all choose and fly colors, both in time of peace and "war", to show that we support the RTKBA. The problem was that if we fly the regular flag, we mix in with others who may not be so patriotic. If we fly the flag upside down, well, too many people may read the wrong way into that. "Don't Tread On Me" is too blatant, as is the Confederate Jack. The reader suggested the Betsy Ross (Standard flag with 13 stars in a circle), and frankly, that's not such a bad idea. On the uniform side, if the person is wearing fatigues and anything but a rank insignia, or name, he's a potential target. Blue helmets stand out beautifully, but so do a number of the other things. If you see someone wearing two different patterns, that's likely to be a good guy (Tiger Stripe pants with standard pattern on top, etc). Other than that, figure on small mixed sex groups 6-10 or less, especially with youngsters in tow, as being friendlies. If I see 5 guys coming near me with matched BDU's (tops and bottoms as well as amongst each other) and matching guns, that's a clue in itself that my problems are getting worse...
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:22:06 AM EDT
...and anyone with stripes AND plaid is a goner.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:22:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major Murphy: So let me see if I've got this straight. 1. The U.S. agrees to enact a complete ban on individual firearms ownership, because the UN votes says so. 2. Then, to avoid any legal difficulties(!!!???), we invite hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions of blue helmeted Pakistanis, Sudanese, French, Russian, Nigerian, etc. to INVADE OUR COUNTRY so that they can sweep the countryside, going house to house asking for your guns (with the help of our wily, yet un-patriotic National Guardsman Special Forces).
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I never accused the National Guard of being un-patriotic. I believe quite the opposite. I simply stated that they can be (and I know for a fact are) allowed to conduct operations on our doorstep. If guns are banned, and you and I are therefore enemies of the state, UN, or whatever, don't think you're going to spout Constitutional law at them.
We must assume that this would be an army of millions, after all, we've already fantasized, Oh, I'm sorry, DISCUSSED the possibility of this BLUE-HELMETED-MONGREL-HOARD actually sweeping as far as the woods of Tennesse and Colorodo. I apologize for being a little skeptical.
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Allright, hot dog, call it whatever you want. Yes, I'm skeptical. Yes, this thread is to be taken with a grain of salt. But before they get to those of us in TN, they'll be going through those of you in NY. And please, don't apologize.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:26:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: In an article on SierraTimes.Com, a long while back, it was suggested that we all choose and fly colors, both in time of peace and "war", to show that we support the RTKBA. The problem was that if we fly the regular flag, we mix in with others who may not be so patriotic. If we fly the flag upside down, well, too many people may read the wrong way into that. "Don't Tread On Me" is too blatant, as is the Confederate Jack. The reader suggested the Betsy Ross (Standard flag with 13 stars in a circle), and frankly, that's not such a bad idea. On the uniform side, if the person is wearing fatigues and anything but a rank insignia, or name, he's a potential target. Blue helmets stand out beautifully, but so do a number of the other things. If you see someone wearing two different patterns, that's likely to be a good guy (Tiger Stripe pants with standard pattern on top, etc). Other than that, figure on small mixed sex groups 6-10 or less, especially with youngsters in tow, as being friendlies. If I see 5 guys coming near me with matched BDU's (tops and bottoms as well as amongst each other) and matching guns, that's a clue in itself that my problems are getting worse...
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Excellent. You get an A+.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:44:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newdeal: Which is where the years of legislation and propaganda is useful. Get groups A and B to ban the weapons of group C. Get groups B and C to join and ban D...
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Do you really think that the powers that be are not impatient? Do you really think that they will wait 20-30 years to rise to power, and rule over us as dictators? Here in America, our politicians have patience to some extent, as they understand the nature of the American fight for freedom. I don't believe that the English have yet learned that drive we have. I think that many other countries are similar in their lack of knowledge of our desire for self-rule. Perhaps they will attempt...
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:44:41 AM EDT
Throw another fly in your ointment. Those wearing the half/half cammies only agree with half of your positions and decide to cap you or even more likely, they are agent provacetuers. The Montana Militia says 20% of them are plants by the goverment joining to avoid doing prison time. [(:)] Our goverment: Only they would allow felons to avoid jail and join anti-goverment groups.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:49:13 AM EDT
Picture this, though... Our country filled with these UN foreign devils, OUR regular forces all sitting tight on their respective bases, camps and forts... Any U.S. Guardsman who would help these Blue Beanie Wearing Alien Invaders is no patriot. If any of you believe that there is a conspiracy underway to take away our right to bear arms... you are correct. If any of you believe that they plan to whittle away at this right, legislatively, bit by bit... you are also correct. If you think that the media is complicit in waging a PR war against gun owners and gun ownership... again, you are correct. If you believe that we are going to invite or be invaded by a UN Army Of Mongrel Clowns, so that they can take our guns away.... 1. You are dellusional and should avoid firearms, in general. 2. You are wasting your time with adolescent Rambo-fantasies. What would Diane Feinstien prefer? That we (gun owners) use our resources and know-how to fight anti-gun legislation and disinformation... Or would she prefer that we prepare for (and waste time talking about) the invasion of the UN Gun-Grabbers? Care to take a guess?
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:59:07 AM EDT
I have heard a few guardsmen comment on that if marshal law was declared they would participate in door to door confiscations if so ordered.Then I know other guardsmen on the complete opposite side of the spectrum.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:01:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:
Originally Posted By radioman: Plug anyone in uniform. radioman
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Who's going to deliver the mail? [:P]
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"Ride postman,ride!!!!!!!!You hear me,I said Ride!!!!!!!!!!" {one of my favorite lines from the "Postman"} [:D]
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:06:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: In an article on SierraTimes.Com, a long while back, it was suggested that we all choose and fly colors, both in time of peace and "war", to show that we support the RTKBA. The problem was that if we fly the regular flag, we mix in with others who may not be so patriotic. If we fly the flag upside down, well, too many people may read the wrong way into that. "Don't Tread On Me" is too blatant, as is the Confederate Jack. The reader suggested the Betsy Ross (Standard flag with 13 stars in a circle), and frankly, that's not such a bad idea. On the uniform side, if the person is wearing fatigues and anything but a rank insignia, or name, he's a potential target. Blue helmets stand out beautifully, but so do a number of the other things. If you see someone wearing two different patterns, that's likely to be a good guy (Tiger Stripe pants with standard pattern on top, etc). Other than that, figure on small mixed sex groups 6-10 or less, especially with youngsters in tow, as being friendlies. If I see 5 guys coming near me with matched BDU's (tops and bottoms as well as amongst each other) and matching guns, that's a clue in itself that my problems are getting worse...
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You mean to tell me you would be caught in public in tiger striped BDU trousers and a woodland BDU jacket!?!?!Why not throw in a 3-color desert or Advantage camo boonie hat too!!! I would'nt be caught dead in that get-up. Rather get waxed and leave a matching corpse than get captured and have the guards laughing at so stupid hillbilly who could'nt afford matching camo!!!!!! {just kidding,ya'll!!! [:D] }
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 11:14:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut:
Originally Posted By newdeal: Which is where the years of legislation and propaganda is useful. Get groups A and B to ban the weapons of group C. Get groups B and C to join and ban D...
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Do you really think that the powers that be are not impatient? Do you really think that they will wait 20-30 years to rise to power, and rule over us as dictators? Here in America, our politicians have patience to some extent, as they understand the nature of the American fight for freedom. I don't believe that the English have yet learned that drive we have. I think that many other countries are similar in their lack of knowledge of our desire for self-rule. Perhaps they will attempt...
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I appologize, I got on one track and did not elaborate my entire beliefs. Let me go a little further and maybe I can explain my self. I do believe our government would do what I proposed not counting other forces at work. I do not actually believe this will be the scenario because I believe the UN and other nations will act on their own agenda before this happens. I agree with major murphy that we will not invite others to come in and take our guns. We need to be much weaker than we are now. People in our society want to feel secure and they rely on government to do that for them. Our leaders will allow tension to escelate until we get involved in a direct attack where our sovereighnty is threatened. people will lose money in the stock market, we won't be able to buy gas for $1.50, we won't be able to watch monday night football and so people will reach to the government for even more wellfare and help.... Yada Yada Yada...Look at Yugoslavia. The UN promised peace and all the Albanians had to do was turn in all weapons. A small scale test? If I wanted control, the easieast way to do it is to convince someone that they need your help. I'm sorry I have written several lengthy papers on the subject and cannot condense it here. I believe everyone here has legitimate and very real concerns. Everything here has the possibility of reality. It just depends on what plays first. I believe that once one interested party gets wind that another is moving or weakened then they will need to act. Hence, things are going to be commencing very rappidly soon. By the way, when the SHTF, I don't think there is anyone on this board that I would turn away for help. While we don't always share the exact beliefs, you are not the mindless zombies out there that are digging our graves. Glad to be here. -Bill
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:24:26 PM EDT
Do you think they "UN" could even make it through Compton or Gary, IN or even SC LA? I hope their not white!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:28:54 PM EDT
For whatever it's worth - My research indicates that the C&C will be based on controlling the largest numbers of the population with the minimum personnel. Apparently 'flyover country' does not enter into their plans. The logistics of controlling the entire country are enormous. If the poplation centers are controlled, then so is the food, fuel, and power distribution. MM - are you aware of the MOUT training in US cities? Or the existance of prison camps? I have personnaly witnessed both. Something is up, and it doesn't look good..........
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:39:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 2:39:18 PM EDT by 03shooter]
Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:
Originally Posted By radioman: Plug anyone in uniform. radioman
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Who's going to deliver the mail? Ed, I want the postman on my side those guys can shoot!!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:44:03 PM EDT
I agree with SpecOps. The very idea of controlling the entire country is ridiculous. The metro areas and distribution centers will be all that matter. So.......my doors will be open when it happens. Ya'll come visit me now........you and all your friends. BTW....................he is also right that something is up. Just the beginning .....just the beginning.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:44:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 2:45:07 PM EDT by Major-Murphy]
Originally Posted By paspecops: For whatever it's worth - My research indicates that the C&C will be based on controlling the largest numbers of the population with the minimum personnel. Apparently 'flyover country' does not enter into their plans. The logistics of controlling the entire country are enormous. If the poplation centers are controlled, then so is the food, fuel, and power distribution. MM - are you aware of the MOUT training in US cities? Or the existance of prison camps? I have personnaly witnessed both. Something is up, and it doesn't look good..........
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...sure you have.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:48:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 2:49:37 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
If such an event occurred, I suggest that you all call the cops and let the trained professionals handle the situation. You civilians would just get in the way if you tried to do any more than gathering information.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:54:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: If such an event occurred, I suggest that you all call the cops and let the trained professionals handle the situation. You civilians would just get in the way if you tried to do any more than gathering information.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....such wisdom from a guy who can't even get laid.................... Thank you oh wise one.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 2:59:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 2:58:23 PM EDT by gus]
I think it's more likely to be a social breakdown SHTF scenario. I think that is a lot closer to happening than any wholesale gun confiscation. And I really doubt that the govt would be stupid enough to let a bunch of foreigners do the deed - talk about a bloodbath!! My big fear is a social situation like a race war, economic collapse, etc. I just hope that if one of those is going to happen, that it happens before they get our guns the SLOW way. That's why we have to keep fighting the bastards on the political front now.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:00:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ziuck: Do you think they "UN" could even make it through Compton or Gary, IN or even SC LA? I hope their not white!
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The use of the indidgenous population, especially against those they have a strong hatred for along with a bounty payment, can be a very effective force multiplier.
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