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Posted: 5/17/2001 8:51:17 PM EST
I've always wondered this. I'm talking physics here. How does a FS actually hide, dispose, or reduce the flame of burning gasses coming out of the muzzle?
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 8:57:59 PM EST
It hides the flash from the shooters eyes that can blind him/her during low light or night shooting.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 9:29:32 PM EST
I'm not a Dr.rocket but I belive FS's brakes up the light into smaller light thus smaller flash. you buy that?
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 9:30:58 PM EST
look at the general-gas law of physics, where pressure equals temperature multiplied by volume, or mathematically, P=TV. All it does is let the gasses expand and cool before mixing with O[size=1]2[/size=1].
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 9:38:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By garden weasel: look at the general-gas law of physics, where pressure equals temperature multiplied by volume, or mathematically, P=TV. All it does is let the gasses expand and cool before mixing with O[size=1]2[/size=1].
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I'll buy that, except I still don't understand. It still doesnt seem like it provides enough area to do what you just described in the microsecond we're talking about here. Also, I am NOT arguing that you know your sh*t and that's not exactly what it is. Just trying to gain a little understanding here. Why doesnt a brake do the exact same thing since it gives the gasses a little space before they "officially" leave the firearm?
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 9:51:40 PM EST
The flash supressor/flash hider is to benefit the shooter. The device does not eliminate flash, you will still see a flash signature if you are on the buisness end of the weapon. A muzzle break does not supress the flash from the "shooters eyes" therefore cannot be called a supressor.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 9:55:19 PM EST
challenger, not trying to flame you (really), but that's twice in this thread where you have answered a question that is unrelated and not asked. I know WHAT a FS or brake does... aw nevermind, just read the friggin question!
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 10:07:30 PM EST
A muzzle brake doesn't prevent the exhaust gasses from exiting the bore of the gun it only directs a portion of it in other directions. The basic physics of muzzle brakes is to redirect gases backwards so that Newton's 3rd law is applied to reduce felt recoil. It does not matter whether the gases are vented or contained in a tube - the law still applies If those redirections are not as precise as the square muzzle of a properly fitted barrel then they will cause more problems than they could possibly solve.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 10:13:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By garden weasel: A muzzle brake doesn't prevent the exhaust gasses from exiting the bore of the gun it only directs a portion of it in other directions. The basic physics of muzzle brakes is to redirect gases backwards so that Newton's 3rd law is applied to reduce felt recoil. It does not matter whether the gases are vented or contained in a tube - the law still applies If those redirections are not as precise as the square muzzle of a properly fitted barrel then they will cause more problems than they could possibly solve.
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Wait a min. that's what I said. but in plain english!
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 6:05:43 AM EST
btt
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 7:00:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tras: I'll buy that, except I still don't understand. It still doesnt seem like it provides enough area to do what you just described in the microsecond we're talking about here
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I know, but when you shoot a cartridge loaded with fast burning powder and then one with slow burning powder you probably don't notice any appreciable time difference, just the pressure difference. Small changes have big effects.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 7:53:32 AM EST
Tras, I've been curious about that myself. Based on my observations of the construction of the flash hider, and observing them in action, I've come to the following conclusions. 1) Muzzle flash is caused by the hot gasses reacting with air. 2) The flash hider sucks air in through the slots. It does this because of the high velocity of the gas exiting the barrel and flowing through the flash hider. It is basically a type of venturi. 3) The entrained air reacts with the hot gasses within the flash hider where the light cannot be easily seen by the firer. The above is conjecture on my part, call it an educated guess. If some one has a more authoritative answer, please post it.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 8:41:05 AM EST
Actually, the gasses are expanding in ALL directions as they exit the muzzle. Some are directed by the slots into controlled directions to alter the fireball at the muzzle. Shooting the same ammo with and without FS; you see the jets of hot gasses in a "pattern" around the muzzle with a FS, and without a FS you just have a big fireball. So I don't think a FS is diminishing the flash, it simply directs and control the shape of the flash. Now this only applies to the AR (M-16)design. There are some FS that use internal chambers that do allow the gasses to expand, and thus cool, before leaving the muzzle. These probably DO provide some degree of "suppression." I work around "rocket fuel scientist" at a Navy base where they manufacture "energetics." This is how one of the physicists explained it.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 10:05:53 AM EST
C'mon, some one on this board must know the real mechanism by which a flash hider works.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 10:58:25 AM EST
Isn't there a difference between a flash suppressor and a flash hider? Suppressor being the bird cage and related designs and hider being the conical shaped thingie on some particularly equipped Garands for example. One actively alters the muzzle flash signature, the other one simply "hides" it.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 11:16:30 AM EST
Gardenweasel, The ideal gas equation is PV=nRT, where P is pressure, V is volume, n is the number of moles of gas, R is the gas constant, and T is the temperature in an absolute temperature scale.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 11:40:18 AM EST
PV=nRT does not apply here. The gasses are combusting and all of the variables are in rapidly changing states. A certain amount of O2 is necessary to combust (critical mass). These hot gasses exiting the barrel are hot enough to combust once they hit the critical mass of O2. Flash suppressors do allow some of the gasses to combust, but allow venting and gas expansion so that less O2 is mixing in any given area and the hot gasses are less capable of igniting, hence one BIG flash is suppressed. This idea has been stated above, and is the correct one. A muzzle break does not allow ENOUGH of the gasses to escape and does not provide expansion to rapidly cool and mix gasses.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 1:07:06 PM EST
Cool, thanks. I hate not knowing something.
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