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Posted: 5/17/2001 4:45:42 AM EST
OK, in carbines, we have the famous M1, the M2 which is nothing more than the M1 with selective fire, the M3 with the infrared scope and the M4 M16 variant. In rifles we have the M1, then we jump to the M14. What came in between? For example, what is the M8 rifle? Is the M6 really that folding survival rifle? Some small arms know-it-all out there must know where the missing rifles are . . .
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 5:36:37 AM EST
Well this gets technical here, It all goes into the "T" series T-20 T 20E1 T 20E2 T 25 T 28 T 31 T 33 T 35 T 44 T 48 High Standard made FAL T 44E4 T 44E5 the list goes on, basicly the T series are the experimental prototypes between the M1 and the M14. T44 E something finally being named the M14. so many variations between the two. Get the book "US Rifle M14 from John Garand to the M21" by R. Blake Stevens to get the low down
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 5:58:50 AM EST
Where is the M1A in the equation?
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 6:21:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/17/2001 6:24:52 AM EST by Sukebe]
M1A is a trade mark name owned by Springfield Armory inc. in other words the manufacturers product name. It is a semi-auto only close but not exact copy of the M-14. Springfield Armory inc. is not to be confused with the old Springfield Armory that made weapons for the U.S. govt. for nearly 200 years. They are not affiliated in any way. No U.S.G.I. M-14 type rifles were designated M1A. The rights to the Springfield Armory name was purchased by this company and now belongs to them. The only M1As are made by Springfield Armory all other M-14 copies are called whatever the manufacturer wants to call them other than M1A. Kinda like PWAs Commando they did'nt call it an AR-15 but thats what it is.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 7:21:35 AM EST
I think the Krag rifle came between the two. I could be wrong, though.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 7:40:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/17/2001 7:39:22 AM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 8:45:29 AM EST
I think he was joking.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 12:46:14 PM EST
M2,M3,M4,M5,M6..........etc NO! Several hundred thousand dead asian mothers.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 4:45:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 3:33:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By AMHsix: Why do they use the same numbers over again? Ex - M9 pistol & M9 bayonet. M1 Garand, M1 carbine & M1 tank.
View Quote
And let us not forget the venerable M9 Armored Combat Earthmover (ACE)!
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 3:41:13 AM EST
I will throw a WILD ass guess at this one, just from what I had always noticed on the 'system'.... rifle, automatic, gas operated, garand, M1 tank, battle, track, M1 it kinda goes from main term, to specific identifiers, to an m number, or so I noticed... So tell me you QM guys, how did I do????
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 4:23:41 AM EST
Maybe the Johnson Rifle? It had competed with the Garand but was capable of full auto fire, if I remember right
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 8:41:41 AM EST
Johnsons were semi auto and they were issued primarily to USMC airborne units in WWII in very limited quantities. There was an LMG version of the Johnson but I don't think it was widely issued or even officialy adopted.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 8:57:27 AM EST
Originally things were numbered after the year they were adopted. That's how you get the M1917 Rifle. The problem with that is when you start buying stuff in the same year. That's how you get two different M1917 pistols, one by S&W and one by Colt. This resulted in obvious confusion, so the numbering system was streamlined. The newer system used a "T" number for "Technical" item. Something being evaluated technically. We get the T20 series as mentioned, but also things like the T26 Pershing tank (which became the M26) and the T26 version of the M1 Rifle. Incidentally this is where the "tanker Garand" myth was born. The T26 designation for the tank and rifle got confused. People thought they went together, so the short Garand was thought to be for tankers, when in reality they were ordered for the Pacific theater for a shorter rifle in jungle use. Anyway, we wind up with a whole series of M1's. M1 rifle, carbine, helmet (steel pot), ammo can(.30cal size), etc. Time passes and various items are adopted at different times. So we wind up with the M4 cabine (as noted above) because it's the 4th one. As far as rifles went, there were a series of rifles adopted for various used, like .22 trainers, target, survival, etc. Some of these didn't get off the ground, but some did (like the M6). When the M-14 (T44E4) was adopted, "14" was the next number available. At this time the number system was streamlined even more. To further reduce confusion, the "XM" numbering was used. This simply assigned a model number to all projects, with an "X" prefix for "experimental". Upon adoption, the "X" is dropped. That's where we get XM-16E1. This saved money as well, because existing stocks of manuals, etc could still be used without confusing the troops too much. Experimental variations of an adopted model get an E suffix. So the XM-16E1 is the first experimental variation of an experimental model. Upon adoption the E is changed to A for adopted variation. The M16A2 was the M16A1E1 before adoption. The first experimental variation of an adopted variation of a standard model. The experimental variation phase can be bypassed if it's an obvious thing that doesn't need testing. So you get the M9 bayonet simply because it's the ninth bayonet to be adopted. The M9 pistol was a competition held for the new pistol that was politically named M9 to focus on the fact that we were buying a 9mm no matter what. All competitors were XM-9s, and the adopted model dropped the "X" and became the M-9. The Army skipped the M-10 because we already were using S&W M-10 revolvers, so they didn't want to confuse folks. The next handgun was the M11 (Sig P228). So it looks like there's whole missing blocks, but in reality there are items that account for each number missing. You get an M1 tank because the large number of vehicles tested resulted in numbers over "1000" (the HUMMVEEs), and once the get that high, it's hard to say, and not as easy to use. They simply restarted the number sequence. M1, M2, M3, etc. The Navy uses a similar number system with "MK" and "Mod" in place of "M" and "A". The Navy developed the Mk19 for patrol boats, and the ground folks use the same designation. So we get the Mk19 40mm. AS an aside the M1941 Johnson rifle was not select fire. Only semi-automatic. The Johnson LMG (M1941 and M1944) was select firing from a closed bolt on semi and open on full. Ross
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 2:24:29 PM EST
"What came between M1 and M14? " [size=5]bureaucracy[/size=5]
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