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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 5/16/2001 6:10:32 AM EDT
On another board, a poster was whining about after a DWI, and having his license suspended, he got caught driving with license suspended. Then, his wife got busted with his loaded AK sitting on the back seat of her car. He was whining about repressive gov't and the like. So this post of mine resulted. [i]This post is a spin off of the "guns and wife in enemy hands thread." The question arises "When is civil disobedience justified?" Biblically, we are commanded to "Obey the higher powers (gov't) for all authority is given to man by God." Essentially, the thought here is that God is the highest authority, but men complete the ranks of authority under him. To disobey them is to disobey God, for He put them in their place of authority. Even the Bill Clinton's of the world?? Yes. God gives a nation the jerks it deserves. And we earned bill Clinton. And you have NO idea how much it pains me to say that. Are there any exceptions to the God / man chain of command? Yes. When the Apostle Paul was put in prison for preaching the Gospel (which he was commanded to do by God, a direct command) , he asked the magistrates "who ought we to obey, God or man?" Clearly, when man's law conflicts God's law, we ought to obey God, as man has usurped his authority, and tried to elevate himself above God within the chain of command. But what about driver's licenses, and the endless list of regulations that are imposed upon us by the civil authorities (the case in point in the post I referred to above) ??? As best I can tell, we are Biblically commanded to subject ourselves to these laws of man, as a sign of obedience to God, until the two come in conflict. Then, we obey God. Lastly, what do we do in a case where the civil authorities are CLEARLY acting in a despotic and tyrannical fashion, playing a "gotcha" game to turn the citizens into criminals, solely for the purpose of gaining control over the citizens?? (Let me just say the scenario described in the "In enemy's hands" thread is NOWHERE NEAR this situation.) Well, my advice in dealing with despotic gov'ts would be to do what you KNOW to be right. Among these things we KNOW to be right are principles found in documents like the Bible (#1 most important document to me) and the Constitution. There comes a time to stand up to depots. If we follow the Constitution when present-day civil authorities are acting against it, we ARE obeying the law. Should you choose to disobey, be ready to suffer the consequences. The problem with MOST civil disobedience today is that people think they should be able to flaunt the law, but without repercussions. THAT is pure fantasy. Grow up. For instance, would I dodge the draft in a war I thought immoral and unjustified?? Yes, I would, but I would also turn myself into the authorties, for them to administer the punishment they felt justified. Would I disobey a law that required me to turn all my firearms in? Yes, I would, and likely a VERY nasty battle would ensue. Should I be killed in such a battle, or suffer loss of property or family, those are the casualties of war, and the cost of me standing on principle. Sorry for the length. Hope its given some cause for thought to you. Don't claim to have covered EVERY scenario, or to have handled the scenarios I did address perfectly. Open to other comments. [/i]
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 6:19:42 AM EDT
I am not particularly religious but what you say is pretty profound. I have been thinking lately that we are not criminals for not registering our guns, we are conciencious objectors.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 6:21:41 AM EDT
I like the part about getting the government we deserve. God gives us free will and we use it to select our leaders. If they suck and the laes they pass suck and the enforcement sucks, then we need to vote 'em out and change the system. I'd go for the ballot box over the cartridge box any day.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 7:43:22 AM EDT
Caution! RELIGIOUS CONTENT!!!! AMEN garandman. Well said and 100% Biblical.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 8:28:40 AM EDT
I have always had similar opinions on this. I like the conciencious objector status too.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 8:45:33 AM EDT
Sure we need to obey the goverments laws,I agree its biblicaly right, however the constition is the law of the land any attemps to change it by liberals and socialists is only illigtimate abuse of power. The 2nd amendment says my rights are not to be infringed.That goes against what todays politicians say.Coarse I don't know if the BATF would agree with my views.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 9:45:42 AM EDT
"Render unto Clinton that which is Clinton's..." [+]:D]
I have been thinking lately that we are not criminals for not registering our guns, we are conciencious objectors.
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If you want to be a conscientous objector, you need to object [b]publicly[/b]. That means sending a letter to the Department of Gun Grabbing saying, "I think your law is unjust and I'm not obeying it. If you want to come get me, I won't resist". If 50,000 people did that, they wouldn't have enough cells to hold them all.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 9:49:43 AM EDT
Well said garandman.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 10:33:14 AM EDT
Amen...........
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 10:49:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gunmonkey: I am not particularly religious but what you say is pretty profound. I have been thinking lately that we are not criminals for not registering our guns, we are conciencious objectors.
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Last time I checked it was very legal to do private tansactions without a paper trail
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 10:55:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bwilder10h:
Originally Posted By gunmonkey: I am not particularly religious but what you say is pretty profound. I have been thinking lately that we are not criminals for not registering our guns, we are conciencious objectors.
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Last time I checked it was very legal to do private tansactions without a paper trail
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That's the "gunshow Loophole". How long do you think they're gonna ignore the fact that we have "unrestricted trade of small arms?"
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:03:14 AM EDT
I know the constitution was mentioned in a prior post but.. If the Constitution IS the law by which all others comply, then it IS wrong for the legislators to create laws which are against it. How can we follow laws when we don't follow the laws which are before us?? Why should we follow laws which, in themselves, contradict the highest laws of the land??
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:18:06 AM EDT
Inalieble rights [spelling]are God given rights.Rights given by God cannot be taken or modified by man.When you get right down to it this is what the framers of the Constitution and Bill Of Rights ment.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 11:54:11 AM EDT
As always Garandman......glad to have your six. Very true folks.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:03:46 PM EDT
Right on the money. Ice
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:49:28 PM EDT
God gives a nation the jerks it deserves. And we earned bill Clinton. And you have NO idea how much it pains me to say that.
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I have had similar thoughts on this. We, as a nation, have not YET completely fallen out of favor. When we need a strong president, we get one. Pres. Reagan is the most recent example. When we can most afford a weak president, we get one. Clinton, of course, comes to mind. We, as a nation, need to get our act together lest some day we will be in need of a stong leader and get a weakling instead.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 4:48:06 PM EDT
They answer to this is to return to God. America has to stop putting God under their feet,and start looking up to him in his rightful place. I am a christian ans also a realist!! We are in the begining of the end. Good luck to all.
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