If a poor, college student like me with a loaded AR-15 in the right place at the right time isn't a testament to gun use being a life-saver over a life-taker, then I don't know what is...[i]because I might have just saved my friend's life[/i]

I call my female-friend earlier today (Monday, May 14th), wanting to hook up for a movie that night.  She calls me back on my car phone around 10p.m., and says we could rent one and take it back to her house: no problem I'm thinking.  She's on her way back to her home from downtown Birmingham (AL), my own home (my home away from school) being right smack in the middle of the two.  Naturally, I'm getting my shoes on and getting ready to pick up a rental, when the car phone rings again.  Then my cell phone rings again around 10:15...

"I dunno what to do, there's this guy tailing me at 80mph and he has a gun".  Long story short, apparantly she cut the guy off somewhere, he got pissed, got right along beside her in a lane, and start waving a gun in his hand suggestively.  She tries to outspeed him, outpass him, and even let him pass, but he continues to tail her all the way to her voyage home.  Unfortunately, she has no weapon of her own to defend herself in a sticky situation.  Fortunately, the Colt AR15 and 30rd magazine, loaded from after I went with my uncle to the range this weekend, was sitting right next to me in it's case.  Gratefully, they were only 4-5 minutes from my own house...which gave me ample time to wait on the pair of cars soon to pass me by, and get ready for my own pursuit.

Maybe I should have called the cops; maybe I should have told her to stop at a gas station; maybe I was better off laying low and not getting myself possibly killed.  In any case, the only thing going through my mind was "Me gun...protect woman".  And with that paleolithic intellegence, I awaited the two cars which I soon found racing by the highway, and hit the pedal with my A2 in the back seat.

I knew I could get him to leave her alone, but in no circumstances did I want him to track her down to her own home.  Knowing this (despite my Tarzan-like conjecture of brainwaves), I called her on her cell phone from my own, telling her to stop at the entrance to her subdivision, miles from her actual house, and wait until I got there.  A few minutes later, tracking the two cars from about a 1/4 mile distance, I saw her do exactly as I said, and as expected, her assailant had done the same...it was now crunch time.

(End of Part 1)

(Beginning of Part 2)

As the two cars came to a complete stop, I got to their location about 15 seconds later.  She had stayed in the car (good girl), while her pursuer turned his headlights off.  With the adrenaline of a raging bull and the honest-to-God fear that I haven't felt in a long time, I IMMEDIATELY proceeded to blast my high-beams at the car in front of me, get out of my car, grab my rifle, and get behind my vehicle like a police officer in a firefight, with my intstrument aimed directly at it's target.  I screamed at the top of my lungs something along the lines of "drive the f**k away right now or I will put 30 bullets in your g'damn head".  I don't quite remember because I was feeling as timid as a school girl at the time.  Just by looking at his head and upper body movement from the passenger window (the car was perpendicular to me), I could tell he was drunk...but I took no chances.  He sped off leaving a dust cloud of gravel, my sights leading on the center mass of his car the entire time until he was probably a mile down the road (making sure my body was cowardly between his car and myself at all times).

My endorphine rush died down, I put my AR on the ground, and dropped to one knee.  I've taken a few guys in fistfights before, and have even found myself in the encounter of a guy with a knife...just another day for me.  But for some drunk guy with a pistol 30 feet in front of me, and me knowing full well I could have dropped him in a moment's notice had I saw his hand reach down suspiciously...this man gave me the worst scare of my entire life.  Maybe if I was protecting myself, it wouldn't have been so bad.  Were it in open daylight with someone who was farther away from me, it wouldn't have been so bad.  But on a lonely road at night, when you've got someone you love's life possibly at stake, your body does some strange sh*t to you.  I thought I was fearless: I thought I've faced the biggest toughest guys, defended myself out of sufficient man-to-man brawls, and stood up to the most dangerous of folks to desensitize myself to fear.  The one thing I learned tonight is this:  I'm no longer afraid of bruises and broken bones, but I'm damn well afraid of a bullet.

I couldn't have had a better night though...a little popcorn, a VHS movie, and some hour-long sexual intercourse took the fear right out of me.  I beat the bad guy, I got the girl, and I learned a lesson...a writer couldn't have scripted this one any better.  [;)]

In all seriousness...I now have full respect for the men and women who protect me and my friends/family - Law enforcement officers who do their dirty work on the streets, and military personnel who perform theirs in foreign nations.  Never again will I fool myself into thinking I am invincible to fear, because my conclusion is that you guys have nerves of steel and are under-appreciated more and more in this country.  Were I not so battle hardened, I probably wouldn't have did, even in my timid meandor, what I did tonight.  An intoxicated man with a beretta instilled 10X more fear in me, than a trained opponent with an assault rifle does with some of you guys.  PD, SWAT, Army, Navy, USMC...if I forgot someone please let me know, because you are the most honorable and courageous individuals in our nation.  God Bless you, because without your presence, people like me would not be alive today.

Thanks for listening.
[b]Jewbroni~[/b]

What did Bill Jordan say?

"You showed 'po judgement but real courage."

Anyway, congratulations on doing something interesting.  

Oh, and to anyone that asks: no, I didn't get the asshole's tag number...at the time, I was good to keep all the urine on the INSIDE of my body.

Not as manly as I thought I be, huh

Jewbroni~

WhoMe:  Delete this post?  Not likely my friend...this is the only thing I've had to be proud of (or equally embarassed with) in my seemingly mediocre life.  I'd frame this thread if I could.

RATS!

You got balls, no doubt about that. If ALABAMY is a shall issue state I suggest the next stop for your "friend" is a gun shop and then some serious training sessions not only at the range but in the clasroom studying the "judicious use of deadly force" as taught by Massad Ayoob. Good book and better training.

Good Luck!

I think he meant
just don't end up letting your story
frame you.

Cell phones and guns win the day. Don't leave home without them.

My Corvette got destroyed by an a$$hole
doctor yaking on a cell phone and failing
to see that I stopped.

Hey anyone here have a hard time believing this story.  I mean this sounds like one of my dreams:  cute girl and get to look like billy bad ass and then get some poontang afterwards.  HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Just kidding

You did just as good as any LEO. It's good to have real world experience. However, as a fellow college student, I would have taken the opportunity to do some ballistic testing for extra credit. People like that need to be taught a lesson that normal LE are restrained from doing. I personally would have opened up and let him have a taste of fear. If he shoots back all the better. You can claim self defense if they ever found you.

Did you call your "drunk friend" on the phone after your female-friend left and say "It worked great dude! She was so grateful for my heroics I got some tonight! Ok, friday is my turn to play road-rage man."

Heh, yeah I don't blame you for having a hard time believing the story.  I'm still getting over it myself.

Freedom Fighter:  as a recent liberal-turned-conservative, I'm still getting into the swing of things with these fancy "fire first, ask questions later policy"...I'll leave that to the professionals.  Besides, if the gun was a toy or something (which is unlikely, but possible) my ass would probably be looking at jail time.  I don't know the details and nitty-gritty of "self defense", which is why I will probably only shoot at another armed person in my own home, unless of course it's a "he dies or I die" situation on the street.  Then, the attacker becomes a human .223 ballistics test:  All in the name of science [:P]

Aight guys, my nerves are racked for one day...I gotta get some sleep.

Oh and to anyone who's keeping up with the "100 magazine" auction going on....STOP BIDDING!!  5 days to go and the price is getting steeper and steeper, so I hope you guys aren't raising the stakes until the last minute...just checking.

[i]Good, Bad...I'm the guy with the gun[/i] - Army of Darkness
Jewbroni~

Imbro,

    Are you gonna try it now?

No, I have morals.

I'm certainly glad that your adventure worked out well for you, but you're extremely lucky that you didn't have to drop the hammer on jackass.

Consider how the situation would have looked to a fourth party. You would have had a hard time convincing the cops, district attorney, and a jury that planning an ambush point and shooting the guy with an evil assault weapon wasn't premeditated. And while we all know that the police have no duty to protect you, failing to call them when you both had cell phones and several minutes to plan the ambush is pretty hard to defend.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for self defense, and you may have saved your friend's life. If this happens again, though, tell her to drive to a POLICE STATION.  Tell her to keep moving, making right turns at red lights and staying on wide open roads. Direct her to the PD station. But don't put yourself in a position where you could end up in prison when there is a simpler solution.

-Andy

Driving to a Police station is agreat solution, if you want to die in a police station parking lot. I held a burglar at gunpoint until the cops showed up. For my trouble I got: a lecture about how I am not qualified to protect myself because I am not a cop, my gun was taken "for safe keeping", (it took 3 months to get it back) and the suspects were out the next day. Thank God I have those guys taking care of me. Thank God I didn't tell them about the other guns I still had.

You did right, Jewbroni, don't let anyone tell you differently.

You know how you can tell you did right? Cause of the 'happy ending' and that's all that counts.

Sure waiting on the police, etc., to come to your friend's rescue MAY have worked. Telling her to drive to a police station, before the bad guy ran her off the road at a high rate of speed, MAY have worked too.  But we'll never KNOW for certain, will we?

Once something like this occurs, you'll [b]always[/b] have time to go back and check out to see if there were any clear alternatives available. And you'll [b]always[/b] have those Monday morning quarterbacks to tell you how they, Superman, or God would have done it.

But you were there and they weren't, so they can only guess and suppose and theorize what they'd do in similar situation, under stress, etc.

Eric The Hun

Just out of curiosity, what was your backdrop?  Was she in the line of fire?

Just something to think about...I'm not trying to break your balls.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I've never been in your shoes so I am not critisizing you.  Play it over and over and think about what you did right or wrong and learn from it.

Freedom Fighter:  That type of shit will get you locked up.  That would be totally unjustifiable.  As it was, Jewbroni could have had a hard time defending himself even if the guy got out of the car.  Arguably, he pursued the assailant.  Also depends on state law.  In VA, citizens have now duty to retreat, but I believe in some states you must retreat if that is an option.  Don't get me wrong, I like it and I hope the jerk-off wet himself when he realized he could have been on the receiving end of an AR-15, but it could have gone VERY wrong.

Anyway, Jewbroni and his lady friend came out of it with the same number of holes they started with, and that's what really matters.

[b]I just wanna know what the heck you named your AR, did you take my advice and name her ARIEL?[/b]

Nice work Jewbroni.

I bet Mr. Butthorn thinks twice about brandishing a gun during a traffic conflict again. You taught him a valuable lesson and at least in Alaska you were well within your rights and legally justified in your response.

Hats off to you Bro!


Hunter out...

Remember that .223's have a lot of windshield and car door deflection. But with 30 rounds, I think more than a few rounds will find their target. .308's are better or even sabot slugs from a shotgun for "punching" through. I have tested these rounds on an abandoned car. .308's will go clean through both sides of a steel rim. We also shot through the windshield with an AR, none of the rounds went straight through. Shots deflected all over the place.

If the drunk bastard tried to run you over, a single .308 or BRI sabot slug in the chest will end his road rage real quick.

Hey Jewbroni,
             Good job you showed courage and restraint. I'm sorry to say that we LEOs can't be evrywhere we're needed so thanks for the kind words. You saved the day and deserve the title "Hero". If you have'nt chosen a career path think about law enforcement. Sounds like you have a solid foundation to build on. You can ride with me anytime. By the way drunks with guns scare us all, only a fool would want to kill someone when they don't have to.

Ya boy,
must of been nice getting laid for being a knight in shinning armor.  Just wait, she will tell her friends, and you might get a little something on the side!! [sex]

Good one.
c-rock
[url]www.illinois-shooter.org

Thanks for all your comments guys.

uncle buck:  I already have a career choice, involving sitting behind a computer typing code 8 hours a day.  Besides, I don't think law enforcement is quite ready for me yet:  I'll stick to fighting guys wearing gi's and carrying rubber knives.

satcong:  I decided to name my first AR15 - Sting, the enchanted sword carried by Frodo in the [u]Lord of the Rings[/u].

As far as my intents that night, I really don't think I would have fired my weapon under many circumstances.  Nevertheless, the bolt was closed and the safety was off, so a few FMJ's were ready to fly if the situation called for it.  After hearing everybody's comments on the legality of the issue, this only affirms my position that the only time I really want to pull the trigger in self-defense is [i]in my own home[/i].  Just hoping this situation doesn't arise again outside of it, but hopefully I'll be ready...again (assuming my bladder control stays intact for a second time).

Jewbroni~

Ditto to what the Hun said.

Anyone who thinks that they can tell you how differently you should have handled the situation needs to get real.

You were there.....they weren't.

You did the right thing.

It would be a far easier thing for you to get out of jail than for your girl pal to have gotten out of a morgue.

Proud for you.

Jewbroni- Bravo! Perfect response. My first reaction would have been to have her drive to my place, where the BG would have been met with myself and my roommate with an AR and AK, but yours was a better one. Good thinking.

Call the cops my ass! If the life of a loved one is on the line, who would you rather trust: Barney Fife, or YOURSELF and your AR??? I decision is easy for me. I [b]KNOW[/b] I would get there in time and that I would do it in the quickest damn way possible. I wouldn't miss either.

Glad to hear the situation didnt turn out like my screen name! [:)]

BTW- I dont know about you guys that are critical of his actions, but I would [b]MUCH[/b] rather do time in the slammer and know that a loved one was alive because of my actions.

Jewbroni you did good. Cops are useful for filling out reports after the fact and pointing out where the nearest donut shop is.

sodie is right.  223 is a poor choice to use on someone insdide a vehicle.  (look at the miami shootout!) a .30 caliber rifle would have been better.

heres something you might consider: go down to Big 5 and get yourself a surplus mauser or enfield.  it has the power and range to do whatever you need it to do, it doesnt look like an evil "assault rifle", and it's cheap so if it gets stolen or confiscated, its no big deal.
an enfield would be best: it has detachable ten round magazines and the fastest bolt throw of any bolt action.
a reflex sight mounted on a scout mount would be a superb sighting system.  it's faster than iron sights, and glows continually, night or day.
my present car gun is a Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine in a scout configuration.  i dont really like the nagant though, the action is really slow, and fired rounds are a bitch to exctract.  stick with the Enfield or Mauser.  if you want to spend a bit more money tho', a lever action 30/30 would be okay too.

]


Haaaahaaa! I KNEW you'd take my advice and name it Sting! That name is sooooo cool for an AR15...

BTW, good job man, you did what you had to there. Glad you didn't shoot him(he'd have to be drawing his gun before you could, and I know you didn't want to), and I'd consider a guy who saves a life like this a hero, anyday.

Juggernaut

I would have told her to pull into the parking lot of the nearest police station and hold down the horn.

You civilians don't know what the hell you are doing and should let the professionals handle these situtations.

Jewbroni:

As one college student to another:

Well, I can't say that what you did was legal, but...

WOO HOO!  [}:D]

Mike

Call the cops, go to the police station! Thats funny. Laughable at best.

She may have got shot, as the 30 trigger happy cops that would have surrounded them BOTH with guns drawn, pointing at both of them, because the cops have no clue who the bad or good guy is, is not my idea of "safe". Lets say the gunman shoots first, and dies in a hail of lead as 4 rounds from 30 guns hit him. OOPS his first shot kills the inocent subject first. Atleast she did the right thing, and go to the "goodguys" first. That would have been very noble of her.........

We as U.S. citizens are responsible for OUR freedoms and the protection of them FIRST! Callind the police in that situation should not have even been thought of!

Jewbroni

I am proud of you as a fellow U.S. Patriot! Good work! I hope I would have the nutsack to cover my balls like you did if I ever need to!

If a civilian is stupid enough to get in the way of a police invovled exchange of gunfire, then it is his problem.



You are promoting nothing but plain vigilantism.

The drunken man who waved his gun is the vigilanty. Jewbroni simply took care of the problem.

I promote protecting you and your loved ones. Calling the police would have ended in someone dying, Jewbroni losing his gun, because he did what no police officer could ever do.

If ever need be I will take care of myself and loved ones. I will call the police to fill out the proper reports only after the fact, and then only if I had to use deadly force.

Hey Imbroglio, what is wrong with a little well-placed vigilantism? A few creeps get capped, boo hoo. Too many people blindly place their faith in police to protect them. I had to laugh when a local newspaper columnist took his kids to a city park infested with 2-legged basketball playing  vermin. They apparently threatened the little kids. Gee, that was a big surprise. The columnist, mortified, and probably about this close to filling his pants, rushed to call 911. Guess what? No cops came. Made for an interesting column in the paper.

You civilians should leave all gunplay to the professionals or you will find yourself being arrested and charged with obstruction of justice or worse.

sure freedom fighter if he would have unloaded on that car and hurt or killed the guy i gaurentee he would be doing time in the slammer.a jury just wouldnt buy self defence,no f in way.you were  lucky my man it turned out o k .but no way was your life indanger and thats the point of self defence.

You're being bitterly sarcastic, right? I hope?

You seem to have Libertarian leanings(to say the least), so this sounds like you're mocking the suggested "safe" solution. I don't think he should shoot the man, but driving to the police is just too pc and unrealistic to work.

HKSentinel

Well, let's not get too "political" on this issue.  To me, this seems like a debate of morality and responsibility.

Take me, who's pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-small business, anti-proliferation...I'm a walking political oxymoron (or maybe just a moron)!

All I know is, when the SHTF (a handful of "S" in a very tiny fan, but the analogy works nevertheless), I think I did what was right.  My mother, father, and uncle all believe what I did was irresponsible and that I should have called 911 instead "playing the bounty hunter".  To these individuals however, I'm still their baby boy, not to mention my mother has never held a gun in here life.  Suffice it to say, I didn't listen too much to what they had to say about the issue.

Which brings up the final point:  to everything you do, there will always be a consequence at one point along the road.  Sometimes the situation calls for the virtues to outweigh the vices, and sometimes, as in this case, a great amount of "mean" is needed for a justifiable "end".  No matter what anybody tells me, I believe in my heart that I did what was morally correct.  My actions are what others before me did to ensure their freedom and security, while I only saved a friend.  My time for TRULY stepping up to the line is probably still to come...

[i]..for the price of freedom is everlasting vigilance[/i] - Unknown
Jewbroni~

P.S. - In spite of, or in light of, what happened...thanks to all for their forthright comments and overall supportive words.

Good job :)

P.S.  If you were in Texas, you could have shot him with no questions asked, for it was after dark and he was involvled in criminal activity.

Learned that in my CCW classes.
I would have dropped him! Of course in Texas though hehe

I'm old army and have seen combat, now you know what the RUSH is all about hehe

Jewbroni - HOO RAH!!
 You showed remarkable courage and commendable restraint, ther is NOTHING more dangerous than a pi$$ed off drunk with a gun.  If the greaseball dropped his piece in the process, keep it or better yet teach your g/f to use it.  Courage is not the lack of fear, it is doing the right thing even if you $h!t your pants in the process.  B glad tht you didn't have to cap the scum.  Even if you croaked him, the family would be suing your a$$ of for wrongful death.  A big city police officer once told me, if I ever find myself in a similar situation, to ppick up my brass and un-a$$ the AO ASAP.  Why have your life turned inside out over a grease puddle.  Rock on, bro.
         [beer]

Haha.  No really Haha.  Wait.  I can't stop.  HahaHAHA!   Man, I think that's your problem.  I mean, I'm all for morals, but if your life is that bad man, kick a couple of them down.  Wanna start small?  Go to Wal-Mart and buy some PRC goods.  Maybe just a blender or two, but try it man.  Once you get that down, FLIRT with the overweight hispanic checker, she wants it bad, with anyone.  You just be there to scratch the itch.  Read Maxim.  Drink with high school girls.  Talk to every girl you see.  Pull the grenade for some pals.  Drink with college girls.  Drink with divorced 40 year old women.  Just do it man.  it's worth it.  One will go for you.

NSF

You might want to ask for a refund from your CHL instructor.  The after dark rule only applies to your property.

[b]PC 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime, or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property,

(3) and he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.[/b]



This would be the relevant statute in the situation that Jewbroni was involved.


[b]PC 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON

(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31;

(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated; and

(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor.

PC 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON.

A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:

(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and

(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person. [/b]

If you are gonna carry, know the laws.  If you don't cover your ass, you are gonna lose your ass.

Aggie1

I think you were pretty stupid. Call the cops and let them handle it. That's what YOU PAY THEM to do. You were lucky that a cop wasn't passing by and shot your silly ass as the situation wouldn't have looked in your favor at that point.

I think you were pretty stupid. Call the cops and let them handle it. That's what YOU PAY THEM to do. You were lucky that a cop wasn't passing by and shot your silly arse as the situation wouldn't have looked in your favor at that point.

I think you were pretty stupid. Call the cops and let them handle it. That's what YOU PAY THEM to do. You were lucky that a cop wasn't passing by and shot your silly rear as the situation wouldn't have looked in your favor at that point.

No need to repeat yourself stator, I believe we all understood you the first time.

As for stupidity, well maybe what I did was on a whim of emotion.  I assume you have been in a dangerous firearm situation before; please tell me how you handled it so that I may learn from my mistakes in the future.

I will be attending the wake of my friend who died at the hands of the drunk driver this weekend.  You are all invited to come and pay her last respects.
Oh wait, that's right she never died because I scared the guy off with my own weapon.  I keep forgetting that [;)]

No bad attitude to you stator, in fact I appreciate your position on this issue.  I expected any and all responses to my situation, and under no circumstance take offense to yours...and I agree that my chances of getting shot were probably greater from a passing-by cop ignorant of the situation, over an intoxicated man 50ft. away.  I am simply stating how and, importantly, WHY I handled the situation the way I did.  I might have taken a different course of action were factors any different, i.e. broad daylight vs. nighttime, urban or sub-urban area vs. suburn/rural area, unarmed friend vs. armed friend...the list goes on.  I simply added up the numbers based on the Sit. and acted accordingly.  I hope you understand, again I appreciate your position.

Jewbroni~