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Posted: 5/10/2001 9:12:10 PM EDT
What I'm talking about is the 'LEO exclusion' for 922. Guys, LEOs can have a LEO-only gun ONLY if they can get their boss (CLEO) to give them a letter to get one. They cannot just go out and buy them whenever they want one. Most departments WILL NOT give out these letters due to liability issues, or will specify the particular weapon to be purchased. Further, Even if a LEO buys the weapon, if he leaves law enforcement for any reason (or even goes to another department where the weapon is not authorized), he must turn it in. If he doesn't, he is comitting a felony. As to magazines, again, a letter is required. Further, when the LEO turns in the weapon/magazine, he IS NOT COMPENSATED. He just made a donation to the department. ATF HAS charged a few officers regarding this stuff (more LEOs than citizens with 922 violations). Not looking to start anything, just everyone please understand that LEOs don't just 'get to have' anything they want. When I left my former agency, I was actually contacted to make sure I had turned my stuff in. Luckily, I turned in my two mags and AR lower to an FFL holder (LEO supplier) the same day I quit, so I was in compliance. If you ain't a CLEO, no free rides.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 9:18:09 PM EDT
You mean you didn't try the Judge Dredd approach. "I am the law" Hey you never know it might have worked.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 9:18:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 9:21:05 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 9:20:10 PM EDT
Same rules apply to LEO only high caps. That is why all of mine are preban, that way I own them.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 9:29:35 PM EDT
Garand Shooter, I think you're missing my point. For the most part, LEOs can't get any mags except the ones they are issued. Getting a letter at most agencies is like walking into the boss' office and demanding a 10% pay raise. LEOs can't really 'own the mags/guns anyway.....just a very expensive rental if they're lucky enough to get permission.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 9:34:56 PM EDT
No the point is: Why do leo get to have all of the equipment and gear they want to protect their lives, while at the same time "civilians" are barred from or must pay ridiculous prices to do obtain the same items? Are the "civilian" lives somehow worth less?
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 9:46:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 9:45:59 PM EDT by MindHunter]
Tools of the trade Imbrog. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 10:49:52 PM EDT
Imbroglio, your problem isn't with LEOs, it is with the stupid a-holes who elected Clinton, twice.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 11:04:58 PM EDT
SteyrAug makes a good point. It's not like the LEO's are making the laws, they just enforce them, make sure you vote.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 7:18:24 AM EDT
That's right, man. They're only following orders. Give 'em a break!
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 7:23:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2001 7:24:29 AM EDT by sf46]
While some agencies are very strict on signing letterheads, others are pretty liberal about it. If a department's policy is that the officer is always on duty like mine is, then it might be difficult to prosecute an officer for "off-duty" use. The concept doesn't exist here.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 7:28:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 8:22:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2001 8:21:44 AM EDT by 95thFoot]
Originally Posted By FatMan: That's right, man. They're only following orders. Give 'em a break!
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"Only following orders"? Gee- where have we heard that one before? Nuremberg, wasn't it? ------------------------------ If cops continue to play at being an army of occupation, they should expect the subjects to play their role in return. Vive la resistance. -- J. D. TUCCILLE
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 8:30:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: It just drives the wedge between them and us deeper.
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Paul, You are the one using terms like "us" and "them". Do you think post like this, which are really just preaching to the choir anyway, do anything to help?
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 8:34:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Charmedlyfe: Garand Shooter, I think you're missing my point. For the most part, LEOs can't get any mags except the ones they are issued. Getting a letter at most agencies is like walking into the boss' office and demanding a 10% pay raise. LEOs can't really 'own the mags/guns anyway.....just a very expensive rental if they're lucky enough to get permission.
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They are not an "expensive rental." Glock LEO mags are what, $16 bucks? You cant wear out $32 worth of magazine on the range with tactical drop in the dirt reloads? Regular folks don't even have practical access to some high caps @ $100+. Maybe more cops should become politically active, because one day they'll be one of us again.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 8:34:53 AM EDT
Last "Yellow Book" i had eluded to a 922r exemption for leo's who retired....or had thier gear "Presented to them by thier employing agency" and a couple of other exemptions.. Was I just seeing things..?? Lemme check the site.. I'm pretty sure about this.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 9:07:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2001 9:30:39 AM EDT by Callahan44m]
Originally Posted By MickUZI: Last "Yellow Book" i had eluded to a 922r exemption for leo's who retired....or had thier gear "Presented to them by thier employing agency" and a couple of other exemptions.. Was I just seeing things..?? Lemme check the site.. I'm pretty sure about this.
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Partly right. If you retire, and have your sidearm"presented" to you, you can keep your hi-cap magazines. There is NO provision for retaining privately purchased weapons/magazines. I imagine an officer could transfer his AR to his Dept at a point prior to retirement and PRAY his agency would "gift" it to him on retirement. Of course, this could be construed as fraud, and I for one do not want to be the one that ATF decides to "make an example of." http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/qa.pdf Look at section O (Semiautomatic Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices), question o9. [pissed]
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 9:55:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
Originally Posted By FatMan: That's right, man. They're only following orders. Give 'em a break!
View Quote
"Only following orders"? Gee- where have we heard that one before? Nuremberg, wasn't it? ------------------------------ If cops continue to play at being an army of occupation, they should expect the subjects to play their role in return. Vive la resistance. -- J. D. TUCCILLE
View Quote
How did I know, that one wouldn't survive three posts. OK, guys let's come clean. We all know damn well we bring MP5s and CARs home everyday so our kids can play with them. Hell, the Blackhawk is in MY backyard RIGHT NOW. We routinely bring home the coolest things for our own amusment. Hell just the other day I brought home $550,000.00 in drug money, the Chief said it was ok, just sign it out. Yes and we also race patrol cars when not on duty. And ALL those illegal items we confiscated from you over the years...they're in MY closet. Want your slinky back? Yes we can truly have anything and everything. Borrowed the Chiefs wife last week. Why not?
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 10:40:39 AM EDT
Well are you CIVILIANS or are you not? If you are then equal protection under the law applies and you should not get any exemptions from firearms regulations. You should refuse to use any and all weapons not available to the civilian public. Otherwise admit that you are part of a government sanctioned paramilitary force with special rights and priviledges. I am talking about an INALIENABLE RIGHT not lockpicks or prescription drugs.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 11:18:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Charmedlyfe: Further, Even if a LEO buys the weapon, if he leaves law enforcement for any reason (or even goes to another department where the weapon is not authorized), he must turn it in. If he doesn't, he is comitting a felony.... ....He just made a donation to the department. ATF HAS charged a few officers regarding this stuff (more LEOs than citizens with 922 violations). [\quote] I thought the officer could sell the LEO item so long as it was to another authorized LEO or dealer who could then only legally sell to an authorized LEO.
Link Posted: 5/11/2001 11:58:47 AM EDT
This is a little off topic...sorry. You guys are looking at this cop vs civilian thing all wrong. I'm neither. I am a non-LEO and a law abiding citizen with the right to carry a weapon. The only difference between me and a LEO is that I can kill to defend myself and not others. If we all thought more like LEO's the United States would be a crime free place. Most of the LEO I know are good guys with or without badge. There are a few cocky assholes like one that I went to HS with, but the rest are regular people with a tough job and shitty pay to go with it. I'd say that most are on your side. RANTING OVER
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 11:29:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DeerSlayer: The only difference between me and a LEO is that I can kill to defend myself and not others.
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Is that a SC thing? Here in Alaska if the person that needs defending would be authorized to use deadly force then YOU a third person can use deadly force on their behalf. You don't have to be LE for that justification. The main differences for deadly force here in Alaska is the LEO does not have to disengauge if he/she has the oppurtunity where a armed citizen does, UNLESS they are on their premises then all bets are off and you have no duty to retreat at all, ever. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 11:55:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MindHunter:
Originally Posted By DeerSlayer: The only difference between me and a LEO is that I can kill to defend myself and not others.
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Is that a SC thing? Here in Alaska if the person that needs defending would be authorized to use deadly force then YOU a third person can use deadly force on their behalf. You don't have to be LE for that justification. Hunter out...
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Same here in Arizona. You can protect someone else the same as you can protect yourself. If you see that it is necessary to protect the third person against the use of unlawful deadly physical force. You can also shoot someone in the prevention of certain crimes such as Arson of an occupied structure.Read your law....you might be surprised at what is within your power.
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 12:20:52 AM EDT
Where can I find Alabama state law dealing with this topic? I've searched mine on the NRA website and gotten all the basics (where I can carry, how I can carry, etc), but nothing along the lines of where or in what situation I can legally drop the hammer. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 1:18:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jewbroni: Where can I find Alabama state law dealing with this topic? I've searched mine on the NRA website and gotten all the basics (where I can carry, how I can carry, etc), but nothing along the lines of where or in what situation I can legally drop the hammer. Jewbroni~
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Jewbroni, Beagles747 and I are citing our State law regarding Justification of Deadly Force, one way to find AL law regarding this topic would be the law library at your local court house. A faster way may be stopping by your local cop shop and ask to see their copy. If you stopped by my station interested in state law I would look it up and make you copys, but that is me I realize your local LE may not be that easy to deal with. Also most States have all of their law online, I know Alaska does. Good luck Bro! Like I stated in your post on your situation the other day you done good and if Mr Butthead would have placed your girl in fear of death or serious bodily harm you could have dumped him on her behalf and in Alaska our State dividend check would have increased for all of us. I would have bought ya a beer. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 7:52:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2001 7:50:54 AM EDT by tcsd1236]
Best place I've found for on-line state laws: [url]http://www.megalaw.com/states.php3[/url]
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