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Posted: 5/9/2001 4:48:42 PM EDT
I'm thinking of buying a Glock in this caliber so I can buy a .40 SW barrel and shoot both rounds out of the same gun with a quick change. Thanks for any help guys [pistol]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 5:31:37 PM EDT
BTT Please help guys. I dont want to buy it if it is nothing more than a nice but short lived wildcat round
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 5:46:23 PM EDT
I've got a Sig P239 and have both barrels. I just got the 357 Sig barrel a few weeks ago so I can't give you much input. I have run about 500 rounds through it and have been pleased with the performance and accuracy. The ammo is a little more expensive but I think it is worth it for the increased performance. Aggie1
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:13:12 PM EDT
Its about the same power as a .357 magnum. It's not a round that'll disappear any time soon. Several law enforcement agencies in the US use the caliber. Plus the round looks cool. Any pistol roud that resembles the bottle shape of a rifle round is cool in my book.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:32:37 PM EDT
I forgot to add that it is the current ammo of the Texas Department of Public Safety. If I remember correctly they are using CCI Gold Speer hollowpoints. I don't remember the bullet weight. One of the reasons they went to the .357Sig is increased penetration in auto glass and metal.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:42:01 PM EDT
Hey while we're on this see if you know this, I was about to buy a .357 sig barrel at the gunshow for my g23 (older preban no acc rails or fingergrooves) and the guy selling it told me not to, that it'd break the frame. now I'm very trusting of someone who would pass up a sale for my sake, but I wonder isn't a .357 sig a regular 9mm bullet on a necked .40case? is the powder charge the same as a .40? I'd think expelling less lead mass would be less stressful on the frame even if it was a slightly higher charge. for lack of better word...how?
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:58:30 PM EDT
Not sure for a Glock, but on a Sig you can only convert a gun that started out as a 40SW or 357Sig. The SigPro series may be an exception. On most of the large frame guns you don't even have to swap out magazines but on the 239 you have to swap between the 357 and 40SW magazines. I have heard that this isn't absolutely neccessary but I haven't tried it out yet.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 7:02:48 PM EDT
ive owned a 229 in 357 sig since about 96 when it first came out. so early in fact there was no reloading information available for the round. I ended up having to write federal for loading info. Like a 90 grain round pushing 1300fps all the way up to 147 grain load pushing 1150 with some interesting 115 and 124 grain loads in the middle that arnt listed yes you can run both 40 S&W and 357 sig through the same gun with only a barrel change. You can also resize 40 cal brass to 357 sig easily if sig brass is in short supply presonally i prefer the 357 sig over the 40 s&w its recoil can best be described as a 45 acp like push than a 40 cal snap. The bottle neck tends to make the round less prone to jams due to its shape. The roud is definately more accurate than i am. If some LEA have adopted it chances are it will be here for a while. I say go for it. its a fun low recoil yet powerful round to shoot. But be warned 357 sig ammo is not cheap.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 7:06:50 PM EDT
I couldn't be happier with my 31 and 33. I carry the 31 mith a M3 in a Safariland holster. I am going to get another 31 to carry without the light in leather gear. I think if people get behind them the bottleneck pistol rounds will come to rival 9mm and 45ACP. I hope to see 40Super in a factory pistol soon.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 7:27:45 PM EDT
I've got a SIG 229 that switch hits between .40 and .357. It's nice; the barrel set me back maybe $100 from Federal, so wouldn't be a disaster if I didn't like it. The recoil seems fairly sharp to me. I've got one of those ridiculous extended barrels with the compensator on the end because that's all they had, so it makes the nice SIG look like a pimp gun and makes it pretty useless for carry. I've been thinking about taking it to the range in a satin pillowcase. It's accurate. The ballistic effects look impressive on paper.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 7:40:37 PM EDT
Go to GlockTalk, they have all of the information you'll ever want, and then some! [url]http://glocktalk.com[/url]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 7:51:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gunman0: Its about the same power as a .357 magnum.
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Who told you that?
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:02:20 PM EDT
Don't neck down your 40's to 357. The bases of the cases are different. The 40 isn't made to take the pressures of the 357. Or so I have read in several places as: "The strong brass was constructed to handle a standard 40,000 psi, as opposed to the 35,000 psi SAAMI spec for the 9mm and 40 S&W."
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:07:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2001 8:09:08 PM EDT by Wadman]
Good news for you .357 Sig fans. CDNN has boxes of Speer Gold Dot 125gr for $10.99 delivered. I got four boxes myself. If you're looking to reload, Midway is having a closeout on Speer 125gr TMJs. $60 for 600 bullets. I've got a G31 and later bought an Accumatch 40 S&W barrel for it. The main reason this barrel/caliber swap works so well is that the chamber pressures are very close; otherwise you'd need a different recoil spring. It's definitely a loud caliber though. As far as reloading, Alliant Power Pistol seems to be the powder of choice. This stuff is hot. If you handload, you'll need either bullets specifically designed for .357 Sig or something with a short ogive and long sides. This lets the case neck get the most grip on the bullet sides. When I first started handloading it, bullets weren't available so I used 9mm Hornady 115gr XTPs. These bullets have sides long enough for a good caseneck grip. Using 10 grains of Power Pistol, I clocked the 115's at 1550 fps. This is out of a G31. No flattened primers or bulged cases. Loading data was per Alliant. By comparison, factory Remington 125gr clocked 1376 fps. Basically, Federal and Sig achieved their goal of duplicating the 125 grain Remington JHP .357 Magnum load as fired from a 4" revolver. ================================================ http://www.reloadammo.com/357sig.htm All my research indicates that the 40 S&W runs at a little higher pressure than 9mm. Original .357 Sig loads were developed by necking down 40S&W cases.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:08:48 PM EDT
80deuce, I have the Glock 32 which is chambered in .357 SIG. It is the midsize Glock. When I first bought it I wasn't crazy about the recoil (that 357 is snappy) so I also bought a .40 S&W barrel for it. Drops right in uses the same mags. My understanding is you can NOT buy the .40 S&W Glock and drop a .357 SIG barrel in it. In fact, I don't think Glock offers the .357 barrels for sale to prevent this kind of thing. But I have been wrong once or twice in my life. On longevity, I think the 357 SIG will be around a while. Maybe. You takes you chances. On general report it is a powerful round. I am amazed at the recoil from this thing. But from reports it offers more punch and better defensive results than any other cartridge the same size. On the Glock, functions perfectly. My only bitch is you are supposed to be able to get 10 rounds in the magazine. Horsepoop. Godzilla couldn't get the 10th round in. I can only get 9 in with a struggle. Glock gave me some doubletalk about loosening the springs, but not to go from 8 to 10. Whatever. otherwise a great package. James
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2001 8:14:57 PM EDT by Wadman]
jimmybcool, Glockmeister (www.glockmeister.com) specifically sells barrels for G22/G31's. The same goes for Sig. I don't think Sig would condone such a swap if it wasn't safe. I ran into the same problem with the 10 round mags. It happens because of the way Glock chose to limit magazine capacity. Everybody else limits how far down the follower can be pushed while Glock built these rails into the sides. The rails cause a doublestack magazine to load like a single stack. This causes the bottlenecked .357 Sig round to bind whereas 40S&W rounds load just fine. I've tested this and can verify it. My solution? I sucked wind and bought high cap G22 mags.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:41:06 PM EDT
i own a Glock 31 yes, you can intall a G22 barrel in a G31. the G31 frame is almost like the G22 frame, but is strengthened with steel inserts near the chamber area. i havent looked at mine lately since it is at my parents house, but i think it also has inserts further up the frame as well. G22 hi-caps make a great addition to your G31 also. 15 rounds of near .357 magnum...yummy[:D] G20 10mm mags should work too. olympic arms sell conversion barrels for glocks at around $100. they also produce a 9mm barrell for the G31. order the steel-lined promag G17 hi-caps from CDNN for $28 bucks[pistol] if you'd like to become conversion happy. I have had no problems with my G31. recoil is about the same as a 1911. accuracy is fine for a combat pistol. i personally shoot about a 3-4 inch group with mine at 25 yards (from a rest). to some this may not be so good compared to other pistol such as a kimber or sig, but i've never felt comfortable with a double-action pull anyway. i ordered mine with adjustable sights. i think its me, but i always seem to buy pistols that shoot low. my beretta did this, but when i fired my dads, his shot circles around mine. go figure. Glock 31 owning lib
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:43:59 PM EDT
NO!!!! Don't buy the .357 Sig and get a 40 SW barrel........ OTHER way around. Get 40 SW gun and buy the Sig barrel. If you get Glock, the mags in 40 hold 1 more in Sig (mine does), some don't. Also, if you don't have $$$ to get the 40 barrel, you're not stuck w/ shooting hi priced Sig ammo. For me, I reload......so not a problem. ONly getting flat point bullets to reload. My two pennies.... (Oh, I have a barrel for my 27 in Sig.)
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:49:39 PM EDT
i had a sigma smith n wesson .357 sig. the gun was a total POS.ITS HARD FOR ME TO evaluate the round due to the awful gun.i also have a glock 22 fantastic gun .i have the .357 sig barrel but really i seldom use it.i prefere the .40.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:29:13 PM EDT
I've got a Glock 31 myself. I like the .357 Sig for the performance and the fact that I can reload it using the cheaper 9mm bullets. Gotta agree with jimmybcool though, by hand I can only put 9 rounds in those mags. If I use the cheater and the table, i can usually get the 10th in, but not without looking like a major wuss. I love my Glock and I love the round, recoil is pretty snappy, but I shoot it more accurately than my Glock 26 in 9mm. I say go for it, you will not be sorry. If the round croaks, just get the .40 barrel. But I bet the round will be around for a while, and will probably increase in popularity. When I got the Glock 31, I was ready to buy a 1911 .45. Then I did some research into the ballistics of the .357 sig. Look at the velocity and the energy, it is right there in the .357 Mag. range. Plus slightly better reliability than a straight case round, I'd say it's a keeper
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:30:51 PM EDT
as far as "stopping power" i would need more info if had the apportnity to shoot a glock 22 with a 357 barrel it was fun 357 sig is a good round some say its like a autoloading 357 mag but i dont know thats just seems to be pen and paper balistics
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:41:39 PM EDT
I've got a Glock 31 and I really like it. The full size frame is the way to go. I used to have a 23 and I traded it in on the 31. I've shot the 22 and I didn't like it as much as the 31. The tables all say that the velocity and energy on the .357 sig is similiar to the .357 mag. All I know is that it's a really flat shooting round and pretty accurate. Of course if you're a die hard .45 fan you'll probably be unhappy with the size of the bullet.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 12:58:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fiyerbird:
Originally Posted By gunman0: Its about the same power as a .357 magnum.
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Who told you that?
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I saw an article in G&A(Can we trust G&A?) 1994. Pretty shortly after the introduction of the P229 .357Sig. Still have the issue. Have to dig it out if you want the power chart. Can't remember specifics and don't quote me on this but, the .357Sig approaches the level of the .357Magnum. It doesn't surpass it. It can reach the lower end of the .357Magnum power band. It's more like a higher powered 38Special. Maybe like a 38Special +p+? I shot the P229-.357Sig and P220 45ACP side by side and I think they had similar level of recoil. I liked the "punch" of the cartridge so much that I bought the P229-.357Sig.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 5:49:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 5:51:42 AM EDT by Wadman]
Okay, since the message apparantly got lost in the shuffle; The goal of the .357 Sig was to duplicate the highly effective .357 Magnum 125 grain load as fired from a FOUR inch revolver. I read the G&A article and did my own testing. This goal was achieved. I easily achieved this by handloading. Even factory .357 Sig (not Corbon), which is notorious for being underloaded, still achieved 94% of the goal ( Rem. .357 Sig 125gr. JHP was 1375fps, 357 Mag 125gr was 1450 fps).
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 3:33:41 PM EDT
bki im curious where did you see this? ive been dooing it for years with not a single problem. But then again i dont load max level extreme loads. I usualy load using 7.2 grains of unique using 115 grain fmj's that seem to travel around 1200 fps. A nice mellow load that hasnt split a case yet 5 years and running But i will acknowledge that when you resize 40 brass it ends up being a thousandth or so short From what i have understood brass is brass its only constructed different for a given application where firearms are concerned
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:04:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By po89mm: But i will acknowledge that when you resize 40 brass it ends up being a thousandth or so short
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Why are you guys wasting time by re-sizing 40S&W cases? You can buy 357Sig cases at http://www.starlinebrass.com/ for 500/$62 and 100/$102 delivered.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 5:22:30 PM EDT
I got a Glock 27(40s&w) and bought a .357Sig barrel for it. works ok but shoots to the right too much... [img]http://members.aol.com/bishop042/glock09.jpg[/img] Just throwing in my .02¢ BISHOP
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 6:45:44 PM EDT
Sig Sauer advises not using .40 S&W brass to make .357 Sig ammo. While the .40 and .357 case head diameter, extractor groove and primer pocket are identical, the overall length, headspacing and interior wall profile are completely different. The .357 Sig has a max average pressure of 40,000 psi compared to 35,000 psi of the .40 S&W case. The lower wall of the .357 Sig case is thicker and stronger to handle these higher pressures. I enjoy shooting the .357 Sig from my Sig P229. I own the .40 S&W barrel as well, but I like the power of the .357 Sig. It is an awesome round for an autoloader, and many LEO's are testing and/or already using the .357 Sig. One recent test proved that even after penetrating the windshield of a car, the .357 Sig was still moving faster than a .45 auto that penetrated nothing. Impressive, but then that makes you wonder if you should carry a .40 S&W barrel to avoid liability in the event that there is ever an overpenetration lawsuit. You just can't win, huh? To sum it up, I would highly recommend the .357 Sig because it is very accurate and kicks #@$, too. And if you get a Sig P229, you won't have to worry about compatability issues when swapping barrels or mags for .40 S&W or .357 Sig. You can also drop in a 9mm barrel, but you do have to use a different mag for 9mm. Just don't buy the Sig P229 in 9mm as you can't swap up to the larger calibers. You have to buy one in .40 S&W or .357 Sig in order to be able to swap down to 9mm.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 6:59:39 PM EDT
As it's already been mentioned, you shouldn't have to resize 40 S&W brass because of readily available sources for 357 Sig brass. Besides Starline, there are at least two sources for once fired brass. Or you can get the Speer ammo on sale and collect your spent casings.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 8:02:39 PM EDT
Posted by ShootingShane: [b]The lower wall of the .357 Sig case is thicker and stronger to handle these higher pressures.[/b] Don't believe everything you read. Rip a .40 and rip a .357 Sig lengthwise and check for yourself. I compared one of each, both made by Speer, because I noticed that the .40 weighed more. The .40 was slightly thicker than the .357 near the base. This was true for the entire case wall. If you are interested, I will try to find those cases, email pics of the wall profiles. I also compared a Federal .40 case, same deal. All I have are Speer .357 cases. Might be interesting to rip a Federal .357 case, they were the first to load it commercially.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 8:17:43 PM EDT
Well, that is weird. The information I shared is said to be directly from both Sig Sauer and an engineer with Federal Ammunition at the 1999 SHOT show. A complete article on the subject can be found at www.gunnery.net.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 8:43:59 PM EDT
Have a HK USP Compact in 357 Sig. I like it a lot. The USP is a pretty light gun so the recoil is bright in the hand but not particularly great overall. It remains easy to control. I've mainly been shooting my own reloads. I use 5.8 gr. of Hodgdon universal and 124 gr 9mm Ranier flat points. These are the same shape as the Speer .357 sig TMJ but for way less money. Basically any 9mm bullet with a longer that normal bearing surface is likely to work. The load I use is not the full power load, but I like it because I don't have to chase the brass nearly as far. Full power loads land a good 20 feet to the right. Mine only go about 5 I've loaded some rounds from necked down .40 cases and they head space just fine. Some chambers were reputed to headspace on the case mouth, but mine at least pretty clearly headspaces on the shoulder because the necked down .40 is considerably shorter than the .357 sig. with no change in headspace. I actually found that the necked down .40 cases are better if you want to save money by using regular 9mm bullets because the case mouth is less likely to extend beyond the bearing surface. There is less neck tension so make sure the rounds pass the thumb test if you try it.
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