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5/29/2017 5:35:05 AM
Posted: 5/8/2001 2:18:31 AM EDT
This wasn't an issue when I was with the PD, but now that I left and started my own business I have discovered that with this new CA law, I am pretty limited as to where I can train. And when I say train, I'm not talking about shooting at a target at San Gabriel club. Is there ANY way you can legally train with a registered rifle in CA at a range that allows you to shoot on the move, multiple targets, team tactics, etc...? Any feedback from other CA residents is appreciated. thanks, ptp
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:43:49 AM EDT
Not being smart but, AZ or NV. Ok maybe just a little. [BD]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 4:20:56 AM EDT
[url]www.tftt.com[/url] No longer a CA resident but lived there for 33yrs. These guys are good but pricey.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 4:34:17 AM EDT
Though I have no experience with them, www.firearmstraining.com has urban carbine classes where ARs should be well-suited. I think they conduct classes at the Rio Hondo PD range in Whittier. If you end up taking one there, please post something to let the rest of us know your experience. I'm considering taking a class or two there. [sniper]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 5:21:03 AM EDT
The guy who runs this is a primary instructor for Lapd`s Swat and trains folks down at Pendelton. It`s run out of Angeles Shooting Range. I am putting together a group buy for Urban Rifle 2. interested? [url]http://www.intltactical.com/schedule.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:49:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lordtrader: [url]www.tftt.com[/url] No longer a CA resident but lived there for 33yrs. These guys are good but pricey.
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"This site is the Burro Canyon Shooting Park" Wonder if they are opperational with Burro Cyn closed until June.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:17:57 AM EDT
TEXAS TEXAS TEXAS
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:40:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kato4moto: Though I have no experience with them, www.firearmstraining.com has urban carbine classes where ARs should be well-suited. I think they conduct classes at the Rio Hondo PD range in Whittier. If you end up taking one there, please post something to let the rest of us know your experience. I'm considering taking a class or two there. [sniper]
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I have taken 2 classes, Tactical Shotgun, and Advanced Tactical Shotgun, from Gregg Block (the aforementioned). It is up at Rio Hondo College, and is very good. They cover everything from basics on up to moving and shooting (with the shotgun), and so forth. I don't know about the rifle courses, but if they are run anything like the shotgun courses, you will not be disappointed. I had a complete blast!
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 10:30:04 AM EDT
That would be considered paramilitary training and is against state law.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 11:23:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2001 1:24:58 AM EDT by Big_Bear]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 11:33:41 AM EDT
I apologize- I think everyone misuderstood me. When I said train, I didn't mean going to a shooting school. I meant shooting on my own or with some buddies outside of the benchrest/paper shooting environment. For example, we can still take our pistols, bolt-actions, and shotguns to the california deserts. But where can we train with our registered "assault" rifles?" thanks, ptp
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 12:29:15 PM EDT
With regard to the desert, the BLM said we cant shoot our "assault weapons" on their property unless you obtain some special "authorization.". http://www.ca.blm.gov/caso/hunting.html
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 12:29:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Part-time Pork: For example, we can still take our pistols, bolt-actions, and shotguns to the california deserts. But where can we train with our registered "assault" rifles?"
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I personally, although I am not keen on it, am going to look into the various groups around that may own property suitable for training on. I don't like the ideas of joining up with some militia as I'm afraid of being branded an extremist by the government plants. The High Desert Militia is one that I've heard of, but I'm not about to join up, I don't think... For my training, I've been examining options like paintball, and the like. Not the greatest, but you know what... it's a start!
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 1:06:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: That would be considered paramilitary training and is against state law.
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Here it is: CALIFORNIA CODES PENAL CODE SECTION 11460 ftp://leginfo.public.ca.gov/pub/code/pen/11001-12000/11460 11460. (a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both. As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an organization which is not an agency of the United States government or of the State of California, or which is not a private school meeting the requirements set forth in Section 12154 of the Education Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities. (b) (1) Any person who teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such objects or techniques will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in the furtherance of a civil disorder, or any person who assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, with the intent to cause or further a civil disorder, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both. Nothing in this subdivision shall make unlawful any act of any peace officer or a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States, performed in the lawful course of his official duties. (2) As used in this section: (A) "Civil disorder" means any disturbance involving acts of violence which cause an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual. (B) "Destructive device" has the same meaning as in Section 12301. (C) "Explosive" has the same meaning as in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code. (D) "Firearm" means any device designed to be used as a weapon, or which may readily be converted to a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion, or the frame or receiver of any such weapon. (E) "Peace officer" means any peace officer or other officer having the powers of arrest of a peace officer, specified in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 1:10:37 PM EDT
[url]highdesertmilitia.freeyellow.com/Index.htm[/url] You could also check around too see if the Orange County Corps is still around.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:11:06 PM EDT
Tin Can Alley? At the Angeles shooting range, open Sundays. I don't know if you can set up your own type of targets, but they do allow rapid fire.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:19:22 PM EDT
2 options -- buy a BLM legal semi auto (SKS works) and train on BLM land san gabriel has a private range area that LEOs and other organizations use for training, its split into 2 section both about 50 yards long, and uses dirt back stops (drive into SG range parking lot, keep going straight and out of the parking about 100 yards PAST the 200 yard section, there are metal storage containers where the LEOs store there equipment)
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:38:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chaingun: "This site is the Burro Canyon Shooting Park" Wonder if they are opperational with Burro Cyn closed until June.
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Yes they are. They are using West End Gun Club for facilities. Website is not updated I guess. Paramilitary training!!!! So you say if say IBM decides to have a team building corp function and go takes this course they are a paramilitary group. Puhleeeaasee!!!! That's why California is being more anti gun by the day. Cause gunners have become paranoid. Someone try's to do something about the current situation and there is always someone knocking them down. That's why I left, no hope left. No support amongst gunners, therefore no cohesive effort, translates to anti-gunners winning.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:56:55 PM EDT
You think Texas is any different? By Hochberg H.B. No. 1456 77R6179 GWK-D A BILL TO BE ENTITLED AN ACT relating to paramilitary training organizations; providing criminal penalties. BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS: SECTION 1. Chapter 42, Penal Code, is amended by adding Section 42.021 to read as follows: Sec. 42.021. PARAMILITARY TRAINING TO INCITE CIVIL DISORDER. (a) In this section: (1) "Civil disorder" means a public disturbance involving an act of violence by a group of three or more persons that: (A) causes an immediate danger of injury to a person; (B) results in injury to a person; or (C) results in damage or injury to the property of another. (2) "Firearm" and "explosive weapon" have the meanings assigned by Section 46.01. (3) "Law enforcement officer" means: (A) an officer of a law enforcement agency of the United States; (B) an officer of a law enforcement agency of the state; (C) a member of the armed services or reserve forces of the United States; (D) a member of the Texas National Guard; or (E) any other officer who is authorized by a state or federal agency to possess a firearm and teach the use of the firearm to others. (4) "Paramilitary organization" means a group of three or more persons organized on a military pattern who: (A) possess firearms or explosive weapons; and (B) train in the use of or teach the use of the firearms or explosive weapons to others for the purpose of committing an offense. (5) "State officer" means an elected or appointed officer in the legislative, executive, or judicial branch of state government.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:58:12 PM EDT
(cont.) (6) "State property" means land or buildings owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by the state. (b) A person commits an offense if the person: (1) teaches or demonstrates to another the use, application, or making of a firearm, explosive weapon, or technique capable of causing injury or death and the person knows, has reason to know, or intends that the firearm, explosive weapon, or technique be used to: (A) cause civil disorder; or (B) commit an offense against a state officer or state property; or (2) meets with two or more persons as a paramilitary organization to train or practice with or be instructed in the use of a firearm or explosive weapon or to train in, practice, or be instructed in the use of a technique capable of causing injury or death and intends to use the firearm, explosive weapon, or technique to: (A) cause civil disorder; or (B) commit an offense against a state officer or state property. (c) It is an exception to the application of this section that the actor is a law enforcement officer who is performing an official duty at the time of the offense. (d) An offense under this section is a state jail felony. SECTION 2. Section 431.010, Government Code, is amended by adding Subsection (d) to read as follows: (d) A person commits an offense if the person is a part of a body that violates Subsection (a). An offense under this subsection is a Class C misdemeanor. SECTION 3. This Act takes effect September 1, 2001.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 3:40:49 PM EDT
Imbroglio, Then I guess, when I was at my former employer in CA and went to play paintball as an "organized group" we were paramilitary training? When a group of us took self defense courses that involved weapons and firearms, we were paramilitary training? When a group of people takes a gun safety courses together they are paramilitary training? When the NRA offers rifle courses they are paramilitary training? Why haven't these schools been shut down for training people? So you're telling me if Rick and I go to this school to take courses together, and since we associate with each other we are paramilitary training? Look at the CA law posted. It says any training outside of a private school would be contrued as paramilitary training. This is a private school they are going into. They are not violating any laws. Read the law in TX, they have to prove you are training to cause or effect civil disobedience. Does not say anything about training for self defense. Dude you have bought into the paranoia. I got an advise on this board a while back from member, he told me to get the hell out of Kali before I get more brainwashed, I suggest you do the same. You spout a lot shit about the 2nd Ammendment and then go rag on people excercising it. Wad up wid dat homie?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 7:18:16 PM EDT
I didnt see anything about competitions. Here`s what some of us are doing. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=19416#lastPost[/url] Would love to have you. Also 3gun comps are alive and well here.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:41:28 PM EDT
Rich, What do you mean by alive and well? Other than Bakersfield (lots of cancellations) and the once a year deal at Piru, where else do they have 3gun in So Cal? I'd really like to shoot more 3gun matches.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:59:34 PM EDT
Part-time Pork, Dude... why don't you get back in the reserves? I know a specialist reserve that comes in an hour a week and helps out with the computers. Just an hour a week and you get your reserve status back. Anyways, your best bet is to join a club. If you don't mind a 2 hour or so drive, you can join 5-dogs action shooting club in Bakersfield. Being a member allows you to use the club ranges. Of course your buddies will have to join as well. And if you have the bay to yourself, you can pretty much do the drills that you want. Don't know how much this club cost though... http://www.5dogsrange.com/ The general range membership is $20+7 or $150 a year. But the action shooting club may charge another amount. There is also a club in Piru called Unique that has a rifle bay at the West Thomson Range. I shot a 3-gun match there and they claimed that a target up the middle of the hill was 500yds away. So the capacity for long range shooting is there. They also have another bay for shotgun and pistol shooting. Membership cost $200 + the range fee (I think $5) - every time you shoot you would pay the $5. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that you can take up to 2 buddies with you. They still have to pay the range fee but they don't have to be members. You can email the club rep if you are interested rsimpso1@gte.net . And hey, why don't you shoot the June 3-gun match at Piru! http://www.jmallard.com/CA3Series.htm I'd like to see how an ex Part-time Porker shoots! :)
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 2:24:49 PM EDT
Thanks for the info dump I will shoot my first match there at Piru next month
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:00:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2001 8:04:52 PM EDT by GunnFixr]
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: That would be considered paramilitary training and is against state law.
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Merely training for the defense of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights does not fall under the "anti-paramilitary" law. In order to be in violation of PC 11460 your training must have the end result of causing a "civil disturbance". [img]http://highdesertmilitia.freeyellow.com/grayban-1.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:40:53 PM EDT
This type of training is completely unnecessary as it is not used in benchrest and skeet shooting. CQB style training is not used for duck hunting. Only the police and military should be allowed combat shooting instruction. They are there for your protection.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:17:37 PM EDT
imbroglio
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This type of training is completely unnecessary as it is not used in benchrest and skeet shooting. CQB style training is not used for duck hunting. Only the police and military should be allowed combat shooting instruction. They are there for your protection.
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i like sarcasm too [}:D] anyone who plays tatical sims on their computer such as 'rougue spear' and 'S.W.A.T. 3D' should be rounded up and imprisoned, as these games encouge tactial behaviour and teach firefight stateges. if they want to play "games" then they will just have to play mario bro's instead. all "tactical sim" shall be banned. it will be unlawfull to produce or copy said programs for distribution except to proper law enforcement agencies. Draconian lib
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 8:19:33 AM EDT
you guys forgot about that "evil" Half life Counter Strike
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