Are LE mags illegal to possess, or just to sell. Found some used mags at a gun show today in good condition at a good price, got them home and noticed that on the sides they're marked "For Law Enforcement or Government Use Only". Was hoping somebody here could help me out. Need advice quickly so I can take them back to him tomorrow before the show is over if need be.

Take them back ASAP!!!

It is contrary to current law for non-leo, military personnel to possess mags. so marked.

Definitely, TAKE THEM BACK!!  Also throw in a good asshole rippin' to the dealer for illegaly selling LE mags.

Those mags are only legal for US military personel who were issued them, Cops who use an AR15/M16 ON DUTY, and FFL holders who possess them for sale to police/military.

I'm a cop and I constantly have people offer to give me LEO AR mags. But since I dont use an AR15 on duty they are just as illegal for me to have as anyone else.

I recommend you salvage the spring, follower, & floorplate and smash the mag body with a hammer.

Ok, this obviously isn't good. I'd still like to take them back and either get my money back or exchange them. How illegal would they be if I just disassembled them completely and had the parts seperate? Kind of like having a pre ban upper sitting next to your post ban gun or not? Thanks a million for your help guys!

Getting your money back will be a piece of cake when you tell the seller that you don't want to create any problems or legal issues for him, you just want to exchange the illegal mags for legal ones, or your money back.

He's in DEEP sh!t if he gives you any lip, and he knows that. I would highly doubt, given the stakes he faces, that he will resist at all.

......then again, he could simply declair that he has never seen you or the mags before.

You may wanna read this thread.....I HAVE done some body replacement......

[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=6962[/url]


Funny thing is...to ME, getting a USGI body for a USA crappy body was a GREAT deal for me!!!!!

A postban mag body can be used to replace a perban mag body that is deemed unserviceable. As you are not replacing preban an unserviceable mag body I'd take them back.

They are only illegal to possess if you believe in the validity of unconstitutional laws which violate the inalienable rights stated within the 2nd Amendment.

Line.
Sand.
Step back.
Line.
Sand.
Step back.

and so on and so on...

Seamus, the mag body itself is actually what is illegal for you to possess, so no, you won't be legal if you disassemble the mags and keep the parts separate.

Imbroglio, it's easy to tell someone else to draw a line in the sand.  Tell you what, have seamus send you the mags, then you can take them to your local BATF office and tell them you think the ban is BS and you're gonna keep the mags for your use.  Put your money where your mouth is instead of popping off about what everyone else should do to disobey unconstitutional gun laws.

In Imbroglio's defense (cant believe I'm doing that). If he were to come into possession of some LEO mags he would keep his mouth shut and enjoy using the hell out of them.
I may disagree with 99.9% of the things he says, but his is one of the more politically militant posters here and tends to walk the walk.
He is not recommending anyone do something that he wouldnt do.

Hey Imbroglio, don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying, and I agree with the sentiment. But at the same time, it just doesn't make much sense to me to risk imprisonment for owning a LE mag when it's still perfectly legal to me to own any other 30 round mag, and as many as I want. Just like in any other kind of fight, you have to pick and choose your battles so that they are more advantagious to you and not to your enemy. If I were to be arrested for something as petty as an illegal mag, when there are plenty of legal ones, it would be the other side that would gain more than if I were to simply dump these mags. Can't really fight the good fight from behind bars now can you.I mean, we are just talking about mags here. It's not like these mags are worth burying for a later date or something, just in case I need them.  Don't get me wrong, I think we probably agree about these things more than you might think. But I think I'd rather pick and choose my fights so as to have maximum effect.

Unless you paid "Pre-Ban" prices for "Postban" mags,
Keep the mags and keep your mouth shut.

All of these douchebags who are telling you to take them back are pussies.

"Ohhhhhhhhhh. Bill Clinton says you can't have over 10 rounds in a mag made after 94, so be a good little bitch and give the mags back..."

Fuck that.
I have a buddy of mine who owns 2 Post AR's with Pre Uppers and Telestocks. He has been pulled over twice with them, and nary a problem.

I once unknowingly purchased an antique revolver with the serial #'s filed off.
My bad, didn't check b4 I bought.
Anyway, I wanted to keep it (It was a Smith and Wesson #1 3rd model) so I asked a cop (Explained the story, and made sure we were off the record) what I shoudl do.
His answer was
"Unless you plan on getting your door kicked in on a warrant, what you keep in your home is your buisness, and no one will ever find out.."

So, keep 'em for WTSHTF. Don't drive around with them. Don't tell your buddies "Hey LeRoy, LOOK WHAT I HAVE!"

Just keep them. Be a free fucking American.

hmmmmm...Nice options...

Well here's the deal, I paid twelve bucks a pop for them (got two), I'm not so worried about my money back, he had plenty more (these LE mags were buried in a big pile of USGI mags), I pretty much just want to exchange them, and I've got plenty of mags just in case the shtf.
So am I a pussy for just wanting to stay on the safe side? I mean it's not like this is a product that is hard to get anymore because it's illegal. Like I said befor it's just a magazine. If I'd come across something like a full auto sear or some shit like that I wouldn't have said a fucking thing and stashed it for a rainy day. And as far as being worried about my door being kicked in, call me paranoid, but I've been involved with some groups, and in paticular some individuals, in the past that feds find very objectionable. Maybe I'm paranoid, but if they'll go after somebody Randy Weaver who was pretty much a nobody in the bigger scheme of things (a man who really just wanted to hide away with his family on the side of a mountain), and murder his wife and son, all over a shotgun that was supposedly cut off under the legal limit, maybe being a bit wary isn't such a bad thing.
Like I said before, I completely agree with you about being a "free fucking American". I don't think I'm the only one who here who's had played around with their pre ban uppers and post ban lowers when on their own property or when they felt they weren't under watchfull eyes. But I don't feel like flaunting it. I'm glad your buddy's gotten pulled over with those rifles and gotten away with it. More power to him. I've got buddies that have done similiar things to their rifles, once again, more power to them. I actually had to give them advice on how to do it. And if there was anything like that that I've done (and I'm good boy, trust me) I certainly wouldn't be bragging about it here. But it's just not worth it to me to risk that kind of shit over two mags.

MickUzi?  Who's that?  Isn't he the one posing with his FINGER ON THE TRIGGER?  MALL NINJA! MALL NINJA!  [;)]

IMHO, the Federali are gonna bust your door down now, so bury them now and then dig them up when SHTF.  And next time, don't tell anyone.  Remember, we like to feel important so we can't keep our mouths shut about our accomplishments.  Like that time I cut down that stock on that Weaver guys gun he sold me.  Oh shit.  Uh, No I didn't.  I meant, Like I did do it, hypothetically of course. yeah.  um.  smoke cloves.  yeh.

NSF  (not so funnyanymore)  

I didn't fucking post this on here to fucking brag so as to make myself feel important or brag about my "accomplishments". I did't realize what I had until I got home with them. And I wouldn't have posted a topic to begin with here, but the only other person I might know who could answer that question told that they really weren't sure, but they thought that it was only illegal to sell them, not possess them. Just needed some advice, pardon me.

Pursuant to 18USC922(w), it is a felony to accept, transfer, purchase, loan, or steal any "Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device" to any person not authorised under 18USC922 to legally own or possess such LCAFD.  BOTH parties are subject to prosecution under this seciton!

My advice - go see him (quietly!) with a copy of 18USC922 and say "Look, I know you were saving these for sale to local LE, so I just want to exchange then for prebans and save BOTH OF US an entire shitstorm."  THat will likely work, as losing his FFL is the LEAST of what will happen if this blows up.  Be cool about it, and you should be fine.  I'd be surprised if he didn't lose some of his colour when you show the mags to him.  BTW - gently remind him to check his stock before he goes to the next gun show, and he will likely thank you for it.

Once you have the unmarked (pre-ban) mags in hand, the burden of proof for ban status falls upon the federal government as outlined in 18USC922(w), and you are in the clear.  I DO NOT suggest you strip the mags and keep the parts, I would not put it past the Feds to require indelible marking of components used in LEO mags...

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you...."

FFZ

Ummmmm.....
I think you get better mag response if you drill a couple of "lightening holes" into the side of the mag.
You also get better water drainage if you drill a couple of water drain holes in the sides of the mags.
You may want to look at the inside of the mag as there may be places already marked where you can drill the lightening or water drain holes in it.

Of course you could always go back to the gun show and ask if the seller has a couple more mags he is willing to sell you "remember me, I bought a couple of mags from you yesterday"...."Oh yea, you liked the price, came back for a couple more did ya? Well, I happen to have a couple more here just for you"..."no, you sold me illegal mags, and if you don't return my money I'll call the local ATF office and report you".

[X]

Pursuant to 18USC922(w), it is a felony to accept, transfer, purchase, loan, for unauthorised persons to possess,  or steal any "Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device" to any person not authorised under 18USC922 to legally own or possess such LCAFD.  BOTH parties are subject to prosecution under this seciton!

My advice - go see him (quietly!) with a copy of 18USC922 and say "Look, I know you were saving these for sale to local LE, so I just want to exchange then for prebans and save BOTH OF US an entire shitstorm."  THat will likely work, as losing his FFL is the LEAST of what will happen if this blows up.  Be cool about it, and you should be fine.  I'd be surprised if he didn't lose some of his colour when you show the mags to him.  BTW - gently remind him to check his stock before he goes to the next gun show, and he will likely thank you for it.

Once you have the unmarked (pre-ban) mags in hand, the burden of proof for ban status falls upon the federal government as outlined in 18USC922(w), and you are in the clear.  I DO NOT suggest you strip the mags and keep the parts, I would not put it past the Feds to require indelible marking of components used in LEO mags...

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you...."

FFZ

I'm going to have to agree with Imbrog|io here. That law is clearly unconstitutional. It clearly violates the 2nd, 9th and 10th Amendments. And it doesn't fall under the interstate commerce clause, it was an intrastate sale


Not a bad idea. I'd do it. BTW, why aren't you standing up for your rights?


That is the whole point. They know nobody will bother challenging some as small as a mag, and that most people will be sheep and go along with it even though they know it is wrong. So it is death by a thousand cuts. By the time a 'good' fight comes along, it probably will be too late. It almost is.

The main point is this. Yes, it's just a mag and it's no big deal. But sooner or later everything is going to be illegal.  So the main question is when are you going to start "keeping things" for when that day comes?  Cause if you don't start now it will be to late when everything is illegal. I am not suggesting anyone violate any TRUE constitutional laws.  

There is a time to make a stand, but you sure don't have to tell anyone when you do it, that's your secret.

sgtar15

Ok, Why don't YOU go buy a whole mess of post-ban magazines. Then call up the local ATF office and tell them about the felony your committing. Don't stop calling until the come over to your house. Make sure that the magazines are readily visible to the nice agent. Then demand to be charged with the felony. Don't accept a plea bargain. When you get convicted appeal the conviction on the Constitional Rights theory you just cited.

OR

Become a Justice on the Supreme Court, then someone will care what your opinion is about the Constitution.

Do you really think so? Is it worth a committing a felony to have 1, 30 round magazine, when you can easily by 30 round pre-bans or 3 brand new 10 round magazines.

The law is goofy, what would be goofier would be to go to prison for violating it.

Go sit in the back of the bus.

A month ago at a shooting range called Fish Canyon I was asked by the range master if I had any LEO mags in my shooting bag. He asked to look and after he found non he told me they don't want them at the range. I asked him if he was goung to check to see if my Colt was registered and he said no. He didn't give a rats butt about the registration , just to check out the mags. Take them back or sock them away and don't use them.

Yeah, why don't you do what MickUZI & Imbrog|io tell you to do? After all, you know them personally, don't you? Since they aren't just random internet names, and they ARE people you trust completely, I'd just do what they say. I'm sure that have your very best interests at heart. It's not like they're just squawking online to make a point or anything, they REALLY know what's best for you, as your close friends. How can you go wrong with advice from such impecible sources? Hell, we all know they walk the walk. Or is that "type" the walk? Oh well, does it REALLY matter? They've said so and damn it, that should be good enough for you.

That combined with the fact that finding 30 rnd mags that ARE legal is like trying to buy friggin' plutonium. I mean I look and look and look, they're just nowhere to be found. Shotgun news, online, at gun shows there's absulutely NOTHING but 5 round mags. I'm starting to think 30 round mags are just another urban myth.

Like I said before, why take the cowards road just to avoid an unpleasant experience with the law? Make a point, be a man and show those fascist pigs that you don't listen to no stupid laws. Especially over something as unique as a couple 30 round mags. Now that's a fight worth fighting.

Where did I come out and say "keep the mags"? All I said was follow what you believe to be right. You can go pound sand.

The point of keeping one's mouth shut is to protect everyone involved.  

If you tell me YOU were the second gunman on the Grassy Knoll in Dallas that fateful day in November, '63, and it later comes out, you will never know whether it was me or not who ratted on you, you will just assume it was!

Just remember the old criminal attorneys' saying - it goes:

[size=3][b] There's no such thing as a deaf mute in prison![/b][/size=3]

Eric The(Silent)Hun

 

Liberty, you don't have a clue what I am or am not doing to 'stand up for my rights', so fuck you.  I don't live in a communist east-coast state where all the sheeple have long since bowed down to the authorities.

Imbroglio, once again, answered someone's serious question about what they should do in a specific situation with another line of bullshit.  I'll agree that the 1994 slime bill clearly violates the 2nd, 9th, and 10th amendments, and point of sale transactions cannot legally be regulated under the U.S. constitution.  However, the reality is that the feds don't give a shit about any of those amendments, especially the 2nd and the 10th, and have passed laws that the courts will allow them to enforce.  Short of some serious political action or an insurrection, those laws aren't going to change and we have to deal with them.

It gets a little old listening to the same people talk about how everyone should 'fight the man' and stand up against unconstitutional laws, regardless of the question at hand.  

I think you should keep them. So what if they say law enforcment only. Big deal. A hicap mag is a hicap mag. Does the law think owning a law enforcment only mag will cause the owner to go insane and start a shooting spree? I say "F" em, keep the mags and enjoy using them.

I think you made the fucking point exactly, what the fuck does the law think? The law doesn't fucking think! It's the law enforcment officers that are going to be thinking, and it's not about whether or not I'm going to go on a shooting spree, but simply that I've broken a law that they get paid to enforce. And I'm sure that arguing about the my rights under the constitution are going to make it all better.
Just to go over this again, I'm as fervent about gun rights and our fucked up government here (and would probably be considered extremist by some), but what are we really talking about here? Two mags that I payed twenty five dollars for? Give me a fucking break.
Guess what, already returned them and ended up with two mags in just as good as shape as the other ones if not better, but legal. A high cap mag is a high cap mag I guess unless one can get you thrown in prison. Other than that, explain the fucking differance to me between the two. Like M4 said, are these 30 round mags some kind of fucking urban myth or something?
I've encountered enough of these holyier than thou motherfuckers in my life, and all they seem to do is talk, and I'm not just talking about when it comes to gun issues. It's been my experiance that most people tend to talk alot of shit, but when it comes down to it they're a bunch of pussies. Unfortunately I've had to learn that the hard way, and been let down when it really mattered. Sorry about the rant, but anyways, mags are gone, got two back in return, you want to think I failed in some way by not making a rightous cause out of this, well than fuck you. If the government came tomorrow I bet you'd feel pretty fucking stupid if you were behind bars over two petty mags and you couldn't do a damn thing about it but watch.

You're right, my bad.

Hey dude calm down, I didn't mean to get you upset. I was just stating what I would have done. Yeah I believe the laws are screwed up and I don't put much faith in the government but who would know but you? Unless they stormed your house to confinscate your guns and found them. And at that point I would be using those law enforcement only mags to cut em down as they came through my door..LOL Maybe some people would give em up quietly but I'm not one of them. I believe in fighting for my rights and if that means dying for them then thats alright with me. If we don't believe in fighting and dying for our rights then we would all be under British law right now. Remember the Red Coats?

Whoa! Calm down! Maybe I don't know what you are doing to protecting your rights, but I can only comment on what I see, and granted that isn't much. And don't lump me in with those who have bowed down.


It also gets old listing to those who say we should just give up, or wait for the 'right' fight. Just when is that coming?

SINCE this entire thread has turned into a flame war..and fuck you's are rampant, I might as well join this elegant & liberating trend...

Steve...I WAS GIVING A SUGGESTION !!!!!!!!  

HE ALREADY has the mags in hand..they are GOOD mags, at a GREAT price...I have JUNK USA 30's JUST IN CASE I MISS the date on a mag! It is an east solution to a complex problem...

Since EVERYONE screams 'GET RID OF THEM', as a normal response, WHAT IF he gets caught with them while taking them back??? 'I Was taking them back'...STILL possession all the same.....BUT..possession as VERIFIABLE replacements is A-OK...

If he gets caught taking the mags back then he should ask for help from someone like sparky, who knows everything.