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Posted: 6/29/2017 6:22:27 AM EDT
Im trying to find someone to install patio pavers, and it's been an ongoing saga for probably over a month now.

The guys with the best reputation that are the most highly recommended are booked solid till early fall.

For most others I am outside the area that they service.

I found one guy local who will do it. I met him, and while he seems nice and sounds like he knows what he's talking about, I have the following reservations..

1) His website is through Homeadvisors.com. 28 reviews there over 3 years all of which are 5 star. A half dozen of the reviews were posted the same day (presumably the day he opened his account).

2) His Facebook page is largely inactive, has no reviews. He has some pictures up, but it's not clear to me if they are photos of his hardscaping jobs or his landscaping jobs, or even his work as they are all uncaptioned. The one photo of a walkway he has up where it's clear thats what he is trying to show off,  looks a little off to me, though I guess maybe the camera is crooked and it's not really leaning to the right:



3) he's only able to give me one reference...a guy "he's done work for for years" who is "expecting my call"

Now, in fairness...

1) I did call the local paver supply place where he does business, and they said he buys from them a lot, and they have had no complaints.

2) Terms are half up front, half upon completion, so if Im not happy I have insurance in terms of not paying until things are done correctly.

3) how bad can someone (who isn't me) screw up a paver install??

I could just be overthinking this, and it's quite possible the guy is just a simpleton who does good work but is not business savvy.

No suggestions to do it myself please...thats not happening for several reasons...
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 6:28:49 AM EDT
[#1]
The only way to tell is how bro is his brodozer.  If it's not at least a 350/3500 series steer clear.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 6:31:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Is he licensed and bonded?  Does he have insurance so when he cranks his back he's not suing you?  How big a job is this, 100sq ft or 1000sq ft?  Did you check Angie's list for local contractors with good reviews?  There's also a version of Angie's List (also free) that you can check, I just can't recall the name.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 6:43:36 AM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Is he licensed and bonded?  Does he have insurance so when he cranks his back he's not suing you?  How big a job is this, 100sq ft or 1000sq ft?  Did you check Angie's list for local contractors with good reviews?  There's also a version of Angie's List (also free) that you can check, I just can't recall the name.
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He is licensed and insured though in going to ask for physical proof.  I checked Angie's list.  He's not on there and the ones that are either don't service my area or are the ones that are booked solid.

Size is 217 sq ft roughly.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:00:20 AM EDT
[#4]
His work looks good. He isn't a good photographer.

Call his reference.

There is probably a list on your state licensing site where you can check to make sure he's licensed.

If the license and reference check out ask for an insurance certificate naming you as an additional insured and hire him, imo.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:01:36 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:


He is licensed and insured though in going to ask for physical proof.  I checked Angie's list.  He's not on there and the ones that are either don't service my area or are the ones that are booked solid.

Size is 217 sq ft roughly.  
View Quote
You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:16:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Judging by that house and look he works on some nice projects.

Ask to see if you can talk to that customer.

I hate paying up front for anything but in his business you want something that maybe no one else wants.

Most of the people I deal with pay when I am through. On large jobs they pay when switch gear is delivered and draws through out the project.

Sometimes you just take a chance.  I would go with it

I just had a nice fence put up .  Been waiting for years for the guy to give me an idea price.

Wife unit got tired but I finally called him and told him it was now and he worked me in.

Payed when he got through.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:23:14 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


He is licensed and insured though in going to ask for physical proof.  I checked Angie's list.  He's not on there and the ones that are either don't service my area or are the ones that are booked solid.

Size is 217 sq ft roughly.  
You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard.
Yup.

Edit - the up front money is for supplies. He gets paid when done. I have same policy when doing side jobs, people are cheap and love to stiff their help / casually forget to pay - at least that way he's not out both ways. New customers I do not already know and McMansions pay 100% up front or I won't bother even talking to them, McMansionland is chocked full of tier one deadbeats that don't have two quarters to rub together.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:25:10 AM EDT
[#8]
First, HA is a scammy organization.

Second, the influx of reviews could be when he started the page.

Third, I don't even have a Facebook but have been considering starting one strictly for business to duplicate my website.

Fourth, call the reference.  It is very possible he has a good relationship with a legit customer.  Trust your gut.

Finally, pavers are hard to screw up.  If you have done one, you've done them all.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:25:59 AM EDT
[#9]
Do it yourself. It isn't really all that hard. The biggest bitch is preparing the solid and layers of stone and sand before you put it down. I worked for a paver company one summer during college.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:26:32 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


He is licensed and insured though in going to ask for physical proof.  I checked Angie's list.  He's not on there and the ones that are either don't service my area or are the ones that are booked solid.

Size is 217 sq ft roughly.  
You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard.
This.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:28:11 AM EDT
[#11]
the state will have a list of all licensed contractors. Check that shit..
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:41:14 AM EDT
[#12]
The background Homeadvisor did on us was pretty thorough --and Homeadvisor is NOT free for the businesses that use it just the homeowners. In my experience all the reviews are genuine customers.
We don't work with Angie's list anymore as they started trying to shake contractors down for more and more money just to be listed and you could be the worst contractor in the world and AL will give you the stamp of approval and quash bad reviews if you pay them. The BBB is the same way now --they call once a month looking for money to keep you on their nice list. Some of the companies they front for (AL and BBB) I know to be shysters and yet, there they are right at the top of the list on both. HA --for now--doesn't work that way.
Check His reference, you talked to his supplier and he only wants some of the money (half is a little heavy --we usually do 1/3 down on large projects) down. It would be nice if He had more references but.....Sounds to me like He is just not as up on the Internet stuff --kinda like Us , my Co does not have a face book page or any of that shit, I just don't have the time,,got about 3000 pics of work we have done but no time or inclination to post em..
As long as His insurance and license check out I would likely go for it
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:47:29 AM EDT
[#13]
I can't say much about the contractor but screwing up pavers is hard, screwing up what they are laid on and the drainage is what I learned is more important.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:48:02 AM EDT
[#14]
If it was me I would walk away from your project. A 200 sq ft patio is not worth putting up with customers such as yourself. I've owned a construction company for many years, sometimes it's best to to let problem customers find someone else to aggravate..
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:48:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Im trying to find someone to install patio pavers, and it's been an ongoing saga for probably over a month now.

The guys with the best reputation that are the most highly recommended are booked solid till early fall.

For most others I am outside the area that they service.

I found one guy local who will do it. I met him, and while he seems nice and sounds like he knows what he's talking about, I have the following reservations..

1) His website is through Homeadvisors.com. 28 reviews there over 3 years all of which are 5 star. A half dozen of the reviews were posted the same day (presumably the day he opened his account).

2) His Facebook page is largely inactive, has no reviews. He has some pictures up, but it's not clear to me if they are photos of his hardscaping jobs or his landscaping jobs, or even his work as they are all uncaptioned. The one photo of a walkway he has up where it's clear thats what he is trying to show off,  looks a little off to me, though I guess maybe the camera is crooked and it's not really leaning to the right:

https://scontent.fabe1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14183770_248953708832022_1862009244909651636_n.jpg?oh=3328455e8fc178b1c4ee5e68e956f678&oe=59C7653A

3) he's only able to give me one reference...a guy "he's done work for for years" who is "expecting my call"

Now, in fairness...

1) I did call the local paver supply place where he does business, and they said he buys from them a lot, and they have had no complaints.

2) Terms are half up front, half upon completion, so if Im not happy I have insurance in terms of not paying until things are done correctly.

3) how bad can someone (who isn't me) screw up a paver install??

I could just be overthinking this, and it's quite possible the guy is just a simpleton who does good work but is not business savvy.

No suggestions to do it myself please...thats not happening for several reasons...
View Quote


You want a computer guy or worker?
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 7:50:34 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
The background Homeadvisor did on us was pretty thorough --and Homeadvisor is NOT free for the businesses that use it just the homeowners. In my experience all the reviews are genuine customers.
We don't work with Angie's list anymore as they started trying to shake contractors down for more and more money just to be listed and you could be the worst contractor in the world and AL will give you the stamp of approval and quash bad reviews if you pay them. The BBB is the same way now --they call once a month looking for money to keep you on their nice list. Some of the companies they front for (AL and BBB) I know to be shysters and yet, there they are right at the top of the list on both. HA --for now--doesn't work that way.
Check His reference, you talked to his supplier and he only wants some of the money (half is a little heavy --we usually do 1/3 down on large projects) down. It would be nice if He had more references but.....Sounds to me like He is just not as up on the Internet stuff --kinda like Us , my Co does not have a face book page or any of that shit, I just don't have the time,,got about 3000 pics of work we have done but no time or inclination to post em..
As long as His insurance and license check out I would likely go for it
View Quote
HA now has unlimited, irrevocable use of the business and it's likeness.  That guys online advertising is screwed forever.

That's the price of being stupid and not reading his contract, though.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:02:37 AM EDT
[#17]
I put contractors in the same boat as lawyers.  I expect to get screwed and if I dont lucky for me.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:04:15 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
If it was me I would walk away from your project. A 200 sq ft patio is not worth putting up with customers such as yourself. I've owned a construction company for many years, sometimes it's best to to let problem customers find someone else to aggravate..
View Quote
I agree.

200sq/ft is a lot of running around for little gain.  Add in a customer that doesn't know Jack about the trade questioning what expertise he may have.  Then you talk about how little activity his Facebook has..  he is a landscaper, not a social club.  It is an easy platform to show his work to the masses.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:15:15 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
I put contractors in the same boat as lawyers.  I expect to get screwed and if I dont lucky for me.
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Exactly. Dealing with a 6x8 Bathroom renovation right now that was quoted at 4 days and we're on day 9 and the contractor hasn't even asked for his halfway to completion pull yet. They've broken my front steps dropping parts of the old tub on the brick. Punched a hole in my hallway ceiling when they went to run a wire and went on the wrong side of the joist, and they have now taped and mudded a piece of drywall onto a plaster panel that should have been demoed to check the water issue around the window that originally started the whole renovation, they also left my front door sitting wide open one day when they left.

They typically show up late and leave early. We have a 700sqft 2bed 1 bath house and my wife has been staying with friends for now going on 9 days. I'm here dealing with the bullshit and our pets and haven't got laid in over a week. They're telling me its going to be the end of next week now. 3 FUCKING weeks for a 6x8 bathroom renovation is retarded.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:24:44 AM EDT
[#20]
The only issue I have had with HA is tire kickers "estimate collectors" who want Me and 5 other contractors (all of whom Home Advisor charges for the 'lead')all give that customer quotes or estimates to do the work and 3 months later they have you come out and give them and estimate on something else and they never did the first job and then have you "estimate" a third job and its like --these people are never going to do anything or they don't actually have any money they are just lonely.
But seriously You do get some customers who think cause home Advisor is "free" they can just use it willy nilly to find a lowballer. We did away with free estimates and charge a small fee which we credit the customer if we wind up doing the work --covers the lead fee and overhead so we don't go broke giving "estimates".
I have gone on estimates for sewer excavations where homeowners seem surprised its going to be several thousand dollars --they really though it was going to be $250 tops to replace a 75ft sewer line 15 ft deep in the Forrest they call a "yard"
I have not had any issues with them owning names or likeness or advertising in perpetuity --maybe that is something they do now but I have had them for 5 years or so and we are generally happy with them.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:24:59 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
Exactly. Dealing with a 6x8 Bathroom renovation right now that was quoted at 4 days and we're on day 9 and the contractor hasn't even asked for his halfway to completion pull yet. They've broken my front steps dropping parts of the old tub on the brick. Punched a hole in my hallway ceiling when they went to run a wire and went on the wrong side of the joist, and they have now taped and mudded a piece of drywall onto a plaster panel that should have been demoed to check the water issue around the window that originally started the whole renovation, they also left my front door sitting wide open one day when they left.

They typically show up late and leave early. We have a 700sqft 2bed 1 bath house and my wife has been staying with friends for now going on 9 days. I'm here dealing with the bullshit and our pets and haven't got laid in over a week. They're telling me its going to be the end of next week now. 3 FUCKING weeks for a 6x8 bathroom renovation is retarded.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I put contractors in the same boat as lawyers.  I expect to get screwed and if I dont lucky for me.
Exactly. Dealing with a 6x8 Bathroom renovation right now that was quoted at 4 days and we're on day 9 and the contractor hasn't even asked for his halfway to completion pull yet. They've broken my front steps dropping parts of the old tub on the brick. Punched a hole in my hallway ceiling when they went to run a wire and went on the wrong side of the joist, and they have now taped and mudded a piece of drywall onto a plaster panel that should have been demoed to check the water issue around the window that originally started the whole renovation, they also left my front door sitting wide open one day when they left.

They typically show up late and leave early. We have a 700sqft 2bed 1 bath house and my wife has been staying with friends for now going on 9 days. I'm here dealing with the bullshit and our pets and haven't got laid in over a week. They're telling me its going to be the end of next week now. 3 FUCKING weeks for a 6x8 bathroom renovation is retarded.
How many bids did you get?  How did you find the contractors?  What were the bids, and which was his?  

4 days is rather ambitious for a complete remodel, anyway.  I'm not a bathroom guy, but I have done a few in years past working for someone else and doing my own.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:26:29 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
McMansions pay 100% up front or I won't bother even talking to them, McMansionland is chocked full of tier one deadbeats that don't have two quarters to rub together.
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lol, who would have guessed that?
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:27:13 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:


You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard.
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Right? 2 threads?

There is literally no shortage of people doing this kind of work in your area.  Upper Bucks is chock filled with everyone from landscaping contractors to stone work contractors.  

You complained in your other thread that estimates you received were surprisingly high in your opinion, so if you're going to be a price-conscious consumer, why on earth would you be so concerned that a one-guy operation doesn't have the time or know-how or want to go through the expense to make a pretty website?

I know a very good stone guy in Richlandtown. He did the stonework for our farm on Rt 212.  I can show you his work and I would recommend him.  If you decide not to use the guy you're talking about and want another, let me know.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:35:40 AM EDT
[#24]
@ 200 sq ft, I would only be worried about underlay and drainage. Ask those questions and go from there.

Ask about

Lic and bond

Underlay and barrier

Drainage

Filler

If I remember from previous posts that you are in PA. You may want to consider the fact that it's sloped a certain degree for drainage from rain and snow melt off. If in a area that will drain to a low spot or a place that stays damp, think about a French drain so there is no washout of the underlay from from saturation ect.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:35:47 AM EDT
[#25]
That's a pretty small paver job, shouldn't be very complicated.  Will you be around while the work is being done to double check the base work?  That is the most important part, 3-4" min. gravel base compacted and graded to drain away from the house.  After that it's just a little sand and laying pavers.  

What does your gut say?  Do you want a good landscaper or a good marketing guy.  Those guys with the good reputation had to start somewhere and I bet they don't even need a Facebook page to fill their summer schedule.  Also, if the paver supply co doesn't have anything bad to say, good chance he is responsible and paying his bills.  The shady types tend to owe money to all their suppliers.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:40:39 AM EDT
[#26]
He doesn't sound as bad as the house painter that was referred to me. The guy showed up to give me an estimate with his helper. He was wearing flip flops and a filthy t-shirt and torn shorts. Within the first 5 minutes he tells me how they were out drinking the night before and that they are very hungover. Thanks, we're done here.

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First, HA is a scammy organization.
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The landscaping company I used to use is listed on their website with glowing reviews. Within the first two months I caught them lying and overbilling twice. You'd think they be smart enough to see the camera in the window and then not lie about being there when they weren't.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:41:10 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
The only issue I have had with HA is tire kickers "estimate collectors" who want Me and 5 other contractors (all of whom Home Advisor charges for the 'lead')all give that customer quotes or estimates to do the work and 3 months later they have you come out and give them and estimate on something else and they never did the first job and then have you "estimate" a third job and its like --these people are never going to do anything or they don't actually have any money they are just lonely.
But seriously You do get some customers who think cause home Advisor is "free" they can just use it willy nilly to find a lowballer. We did away with free estimates and charge a small fee which we credit the customer if we wind up doing the work --covers the lead fee and overhead so we don't go broke giving "estimates".
I have gone on estimates for sewer excavations where homeowners seem surprised its going to be several thousand dollars --they really though it was going to be $250 tops to replace a 75ft sewer line 15 ft deep in the Forrest they call a "yard"
I have not had any issues with them owning names or likeness or advertising in perpetuity --maybe that is something they do now but I have had them for 5 years or so and we are generally happy with them.
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I know the type.  They usually have an oak or hemlock towering in the 15' gap between them and their neighbors house, and the look on their face when I drop them a 4 or 5k but is priceless.  The last job I did I was somewhere between shooting myself or pushing the old lady off of it the whole time.  It got to the point where I told my guys to break my no headphones rule because she couldn't shut up.

Do you have a website?  Wait until you decide you no longer require their services, your website is probably burried already and you just don't know it. Do some reading into it.  If they are your business model, you don't have to worry as much.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:46:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:

3) how bad can someone (who isn't me) screw up a paver install??
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Let me tell you how bad.

15K job that should have taken two weeks took a month.

They wreked shit and almost took out my new front bay window and when I told him his reply way, "Thats what we have insurance for".

They tore out the front steps and landing, the same landing that was supporting the stone on the front of the house. I actually had to point out to him that the facia was falling down and..........He got in the truck and left.

His buddy decided to rewire the truck they were using in my shady lawn and left all the wiring bits for me to pick up. I still have them in a bag on a nail in the garage.

They tore out the driveway light wiring, wiring that I told them was there, then wanted me to pay an additional $280 for the electrician to fix it. I paid as I didnt want the electrician to get stiffed.


Oh, did I mention them wanting me to pay more.....Much more than the quoted price?


How does $2800 hit ya?

Wanted me to pay for:

Electrician.

Extra length to the steps that made their job easier and saved them mucho cuts and time.

Pay for their repairs to their shitty backhoe attachment on their skid steer that I had to help him fix.

Asphalt patch for the huge 2x4' gouge they took out of the driveway being morans on said skid steer.

Somehow there was a plumber involved.

Oh, the guy who did the wiring passed out one day at home on Xanax and forgot to pick up the contractors kid at school. That cost a day as apparently the police were involved.

I know theres more, but my left eye is starting to twwitchh and Im losing feeling in my face, so Ill stop.


So far we have had two different company's out to fix different fuckups at different times and the fucking pavers are still wavy where we havent had them fixed.

BBB cert.

Angies lisp.

EP Henry school cert.

All the right credentials. Still they were massive fuckups.

Get on that waiting list stat!


Id give you this guys number, but they went under.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:51:35 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
He doesn't sound as bad as the house painter that was referred to me. The guy showed up to give me an estimate with his helper. He was wearing flip flops and a filthy t-shirt and torn shorts. Within the first 5 minutes he tells me how they were out drinking the night before and that they are very hungover. Thanks, we're done here.

The landscaping company I used to use is listed on their website with glowing reviews. Within the first two months I caught them lying and overbilling twice. You'd think they be smart enough to see the camera in the window and then not lie about being there when they weren't.
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Quoted:
He doesn't sound as bad as the house painter that was referred to me. The guy showed up to give me an estimate with his helper. He was wearing flip flops and a filthy t-shirt and torn shorts. Within the first 5 minutes he tells me how they were out drinking the night before and that they are very hungover. Thanks, we're done here.

Quoted:
First, HA is a scammy organization.
The landscaping company I used to use is listed on their website with glowing reviews. Within the first two months I caught them lying and overbilling twice. You'd think they be smart enough to see the camera in the window and then not lie about being there when they weren't.
I know a guy locally that "buys" his reviews, but HA doesn't a lot of control over it.  He gets his friends and family to put in requests for bids on things they have no intention of doing, says that he did it with cover from his friends, and gets false good reviews.

Gaming reviews is a big thing across the board, it's not limited to contactors.  I'm all fairness, a lot of us start by doing work for people we know and get out first reviews from them.

I bet your landscaper was running a similar hustle.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:51:57 AM EDT
[#30]
the guy who did my driveway about (2500 sq feet of pavers)
had a flip phone and no idea of how to use the computer 
old school guy work ethic and ability even though fairly young
when i told him my plan he smiled and said that would be shit this is the right way and then told me his plan
hired him on the spot could not be more pleased
was not the low bid but very fair price actually very cheap for the quality job he did
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:52:34 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:
If it was me I would walk away from your project. A 200 sq ft patio is not worth putting up with customers such as yourself. I've owned a construction company for many years, sometimes it's best to to let problem customers find someone else to aggravate..
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Spoken like a true deadbeat.


To add to what I posted above, we just completed a 50K remodel.


There were issues, beam in the wrong spot that had to be moved to fit with the plan, electrical, floors had to be done twice, etc.

And on a 50K job these guys were over by 2K with the above included.

We were very happy.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:57:14 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:


You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard.
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Yep. remove sod, level with sand, lay down pavers.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 8:58:23 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:


Yep. remove sod, level with sand, lay down pavers.
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Irish traveler?
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:02:57 AM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
I can't say much about the contractor but screwing up pavers is hard, screwing up what they are laid on and the drainage is what I learned is more important.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/33324/IMG-2534-241101.JPG
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Yeah.

The previous owners had somebody (or more likely themselves, based on other shit I've seen) laid a little walkway to the side of the garage. That drains into the garage in heavy rain. And is rusting out the side door at the bottom.

I got a book on how to properly set patios and walks. Some of the shit involving making sure your base is properly laid and graded and all that is kinda complex in the way where for me it would take days to fuck it up and a seasoned pro an hour to do it right.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:04:35 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:
Spoken like a true deadbeat.


To add to what I posted above, we just completed a 50K remodel.


There were issues, beam in the wrong spot that had to be moved to fit with the plan, electrical, floors had to be done twice, etc.

And on a 50K job these guys were over by 2K with the above included.

We were very happy.
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Not sure what makes him a deadbeat. Anybody who has ever owned or operated a small business knows 90% of the trouble comes from 10% of the customers, and those 10% will also nickel and dime you to boot. A 200 sq ft paver job does not seem like it would be worth dealing with an irritating customer, especially if there was other work in the area.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:04:58 AM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


Yep. remove sod, level with sand, lay down pavers.
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No.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:08:07 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:
Not sure what makes him a deadbeat. Anybody who has ever owned or operated a small business knows 90% of the trouble comes from 10% of the customers, and those 10% will also nickel and dime you to boot. A 200 sq ft paver job does not seem like it would be worth dealing with an irritating customer, especially if there was other work in the area.
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Spoken like a true deadbeat.


To add to what I posted above, we just completed a 50K remodel.


There were issues, beam in the wrong spot that had to be moved to fit with the plan, electrical, floors had to be done twice, etc.

And on a 50K job these guys were over by 2K with the above included.

We were very happy.
Not sure what makes him a deadbeat. Anybody who has ever owned or operated a small business knows 90% of the trouble comes from 10% of the customers, and those 10% will also nickel and dime you to boot. A 200 sq ft paver job does not seem like it would be worth dealing with an irritating customer, especially if there was other work in the area.
However, if you're an easy going nice customer it's the kind of job a guy could fit in somewhere in between jobs.

How I got some interior work that wasn't a big deal done. Guy with a good rep just fit it in during his slow season when the weather was screwing up a big job he was working on. Since I didn't much care when it got done or how long it took, he fit it in and it was done very well.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:08:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:13:20 AM EDT
[#39]
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If it was me I would walk away from your project. A 200 sq ft patio is not worth putting up with customers such as yourself. I've owned a construction company for many years, sometimes it's best to to let problem customers find someone else to aggravate..
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This.

You sound like a pain in the ass that I wouldnt work for...
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:13:28 AM EDT
[#40]
Why are you paying anything up front.   If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him.

Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount.

AR15-SBR
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:15:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Half up front is to much. 10-15% tops is your down payment.  Negotiate a draw schedule if you like but never get ahead of the labor or material costs .

Myself I am booked out until September right now.  Most people are willing to wait for a known quality and unless you are in dire needs of this right now I would wait. Reviews mean very little, I have been doing my trade almost 25 years now and I don't think I have 1 review out there in the wide world. I don't advertise and I turn down thousands in work weekly.

All my jobs are referral based and I very seldom talk a cold call for work anymore.

I just did a roof for a an arfcommer and I didn't take a cent until the job was complete, and I never do on any of my jobs.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:16:28 AM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
Why are you paying anything up front.   If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him.

Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount.

AR15-SBR
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so you want the contractor to finance you interest free

contractor buys material on his dime     yeaaaaaaaaaaaa
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:19:26 AM EDT
[#43]
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so you want the contractor to finance you interest free

contractor buys material on his dime     yeaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Why are you paying anything up front.   If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him.

Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount.

AR15-SBR
so you want the contractor to finance you interest free

contractor buys material on his dime     yeaaaaaaaaaaaa
Actually yeah, most will have a revolving door type account at the supply house with terms usually in the 30-45 day range .I haven't taken money up front not even down payments for over 20 years. I am financially sound and don't need the next jobs down payment to finish out my current work.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:27:28 AM EDT
[#44]
IMHO, he looks like he does decent work.........just emphasize to him you want the drainage handled properly and you should be fine.

The supplier said he buys a lot of stuff from them so he probably does this quite a bit.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:34:02 AM EDT
[#45]
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No.
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You can add pack if you want, but it truly is not that complicated.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:35:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:37:19 AM EDT
[#47]
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Let me tell you how bad.

15K job that should have taken two weeks took a month.

They wreked shit and almost took out my new front bay window and when I told him his reply way, "Thats what we have insurance for".

They tore out the front steps and landing, the same landing that was supporting the stone on the front of the house. I actually had to point out to him that the facia was falling down and..........He got in the truck and left.

His buddy decided to rewire the truck they were using in my shady lawn and left all the wiring bits for me to pick up. I still have them in a bag on a nail in the garage.

They tore out the driveway light wiring, wiring that I told them was there, then wanted me to pay an additional $280 for the electrician to fix it. I paid as I didnt want the electrician to get stiffed.


Oh, did I mention them wanting me to pay more.....Much more than the quoted price?


How does $2800 hit ya?

Wanted me to pay for:

Electrician.

Extra length to the steps that made their job easier and saved them mucho cuts and time.

Pay for their repairs to their shitty backhoe attachment on their skid steer that I had to help him fix.

Asphalt patch for the huge 2x4' gouge they took out of the driveway being morans on said skid steer.

Somehow there was a plumber involved.

Oh, the guy who did the wiring passed out one day at home on Xanax and forgot to pick up the contractors kid at school. That cost a day as apparently the police were involved.

I know theres more, but my left eye is starting to twwitchh and Im losing feeling in my face, so Ill stop.


So far we have had two different company's out to fix different fuckups at different times and the fucking pavers are still wavy where we havent had them fixed.

BBB cert.

Angies lisp.

EP Henry school cert.

All the right credentials. Still they were massive fuckups.

Get on that waiting list stat!
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Quoted:

3) how bad can someone (who isn't me) screw up a paver install??
Let me tell you how bad.

15K job that should have taken two weeks took a month.

They wreked shit and almost took out my new front bay window and when I told him his reply way, "Thats what we have insurance for".

They tore out the front steps and landing, the same landing that was supporting the stone on the front of the house. I actually had to point out to him that the facia was falling down and..........He got in the truck and left.

His buddy decided to rewire the truck they were using in my shady lawn and left all the wiring bits for me to pick up. I still have them in a bag on a nail in the garage.

They tore out the driveway light wiring, wiring that I told them was there, then wanted me to pay an additional $280 for the electrician to fix it. I paid as I didnt want the electrician to get stiffed.


Oh, did I mention them wanting me to pay more.....Much more than the quoted price?


How does $2800 hit ya?

Wanted me to pay for:

Electrician.

Extra length to the steps that made their job easier and saved them mucho cuts and time.

Pay for their repairs to their shitty backhoe attachment on their skid steer that I had to help him fix.

Asphalt patch for the huge 2x4' gouge they took out of the driveway being morans on said skid steer.

Somehow there was a plumber involved.

Oh, the guy who did the wiring passed out one day at home on Xanax and forgot to pick up the contractors kid at school. That cost a day as apparently the police were involved.

I know theres more, but my left eye is starting to twwitchh and Im losing feeling in my face, so Ill stop.


So far we have had two different company's out to fix different fuckups at different times and the fucking pavers are still wavy where we havent had them fixed.

BBB cert.

Angies lisp.

EP Henry school cert.

All the right credentials. Still they were massive fuckups.

Get on that waiting list stat!
Holy shit, I kind of feel bad for laughing at your expense.  He's right about the insurance, but a professional will usually preface with an apology.  Shut happens.

I had a Bobcat mini skid steer go down on my on a job once.  It was my former bosses job, and the idiot driving the machine kept burrying himself because he would make really sharp turns in soft mud.  Boss started freaking out because the machine wouldn't throttle up and we were boned without it

While the debated his options, the homeowner asks me what's going on.  I asked him if he had a socket set and if I could use it, which he affirmed.  I got into the engine bay and after a cursory glance I noticed that the ground terminal had sheared while retard was digging himself a home to the Indian ocean.  I had to improvise, but 15 minutes and a zip tie later I had the machine fully functioning for the duration of the job.

I got a $1000 bonus that week.  The funny thing is that the other laborers were busting my balls thinking I wasn't going to accomplish anything.  That's also when my boss started showing me the ins and outs of business.

Anyway, at least my boss was considering renting a replacement and eating the loss as opposed to asking the customer to help.  He was just lucky to have me on hand, although he wasn't thrilled when I took the liberty to ask for tools.  However, everyone involved was happier than a lark once the machine was back to normal operation.  Idk how you feel about a quick loan of tools in that situation.

I never bill more.  I buy off more than I could chew a few times early on where I made nothing and finished a week late. I was honest with the customer about my mistakes and blamed no one but myself.  I got a lot of follow up work and referrals from them when I did complete the job.  I have also had customers slide things into the job that isn't in the contract, and I was green enough to not stop and alter the contract.

I would have fired Xanax guy as the boss, or would have told the contractor that Xanax guy wasn't welcome on my property had I been you.

Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy.  But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job.  It's an image, or branding thing.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:39:34 AM EDT
[#48]
I wouldn't sweat it. I'm not on Angie's list either. I have 13-15 full time employees year round.   We are booked till fall as well, I take half up front to reserve a spot in line too.  The pic looks good.  Your job is small. Pavers aren't hard to do. Watch him and make sure he compacts the soil, then base material at proper depths. Then it's just a matter of making it level.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:41:55 AM EDT
[#49]
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Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing.
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One of the company workers on a crew I recently hired threw the garbage from his lunch in my front bushes.
Link Posted: 6/29/2017 9:48:39 AM EDT
[#50]
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One of the company workers on a crew I recently hired threw the garbage from his lunch in my front bushes.
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Quoted:
Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing.
One of the company workers on a crew I recently hired threw the garbage from his lunch in my front bushes.


What job did they do for you?
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