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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:50:29 AM EDT
[#1]
He had funky ideas on hardware (like I said in the other thread, stuck in a 1928 time warp), but he probably moved the "software" side of fighting with handguns ahead more than any other 2-3 people.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:57:19 AM EDT
[#2]
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To be fair, Cooper pioneered and helped invent the "niche competition" from which those techniques were taken... that puts him ahead of somebody like Costa. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you tell me, which one became popular by taking existing techniques from niche competition, and popularizing it with media and turned it into success over the years with tons of fans hanging onto what they said to the point of having the same gear they used which was predicated on concepts... and which one did the exact same thing just with video's instead of print magazines? Look how many of the magpul generation are out shooting multi-gun and buying AR's? Also, to be more specific; "At the beginning of The Movement it could be said that the best shots were those who were winning in practical competition. Since the loss of practicality in practical competition, who can say what technique is best? The original lifesaving technique was invented by Jack Weaver, perfected by Elden Carl and Ray Chapman, codified by John Plahn, and promulgated by me." -Cooper |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:58:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Reading assignments: Coopers Corner and The Art of Rifle.
Hint: they are not what your expecting. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:58:50 AM EDT
[#4]
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Well it will take further study but current data shows that each universe is overrun with Mosin fanboys. They do not stem from any single universe. I believe they are part of an omnipotent evil entity hell bent on propagating shitty rifles throughout the multiverse. That's the only explanation I can think of that explains why there's so many mosins and idiots that think they're sniper rifles. Mosin owners are minions of the Great Dark Rifle Gods of Chaos. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:59:24 AM EDT
[#5]
The idea has already been done...SMLE. Add a few decades or so, add some full auto.... carM16...add some optic wizardry....SAHZAMM we are there.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:02:04 AM EDT
[#6]
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COSMOLINE FOR THE COSMOLINE GOD! BE PURGED IN THE NAME OF THE GOD EMPEROR!!!! |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:10:45 AM EDT
[#7]
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Better than detachable mags if you aren't blocking the loading port. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"Stripper clips" is getting up there with "1 button mouse." |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:18:00 AM EDT
[#8]
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Let's go pig hunting in California. Do you have a gun for that? Or bear hunting in Canada. Or hunting in Namibia. That's the problem with the "scout rifle" concept. It's predicated on the "one rifle" idea, when even its inventor had a safe full of guns. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:19:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Mover over scout rifle. There's a new multi-purpose light weight rifle put together by a Marine who also started a niche action shooting competition that's grown into a multi-state phenomenon and also created a modern shooting school, and has print work in gun rags, in town.
That's right. Richard Driver is the new Cooper... |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:30:09 AM EDT
[#10]
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How many people do you know can afford to travel the world hunting, but can't afford to buy more than one rifle? I mean, your first two could be done with any given hunting rifle. Your last one is a luxury hunt that only the richest people can afford, or people with the discipline to save up a lot of money. That's the problem with the "scout rifle" concept. It's predicated on the "one rifle" idea, when even its inventor had a safe full of guns. I hunted in Namibia without being wealthy. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:38:07 AM EDT
[#11]
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When I was in Coopers gun room I saw seven guns. Three were rifles. I hunted in Namibia without being wealthy. Did you do it with the same rifle you use to hunt bears in Canada and hogs in California? |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:50:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mover over scout rifle. There's a new multi-purpose light weight rifle put together by a Marine who also started a niche action shooting competition that's grown into a multi-state phenomenon and also created a modern shooting school, and has print work in gun rags, in town. http://i58.tinypic.com/nb6azc.jpg That's right. Richard Driver is the new Cooper... |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 4:58:16 AM EDT
[#13]
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The Modern Technique was developed over time through his study of what worked in competitions that he put together for that purpose. These competitions led directly to the creation of IPSC. Gunsite was the first of its kind. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's still a good idea, if you get what it's about. The Modern Technique was pretty avant garde back then, and schools like Gunsite were not exactly all that common. From what I understand, today's Isosceles technique is an amalgamation of the original Isosceles and his Modern Technique. IIRC, he also played a role in the creation of the IPSC and practical shooting in general. After leading the way for a while, he did seem to get set in his ways to a large extent, becoming somewhat stagnant, but he also got injured around that time on his last hunt in Africa. I don't think he was able to do a lot of practical shooting work after that and had also sold Gunsite and been pushed out of it around the same time, IIRC. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 5:43:11 AM EDT
[#14]
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Honestly at this point I'm more worried about your multiverse theory. I mean do all the knuckle draggers who think mosins are great guns for shtf come from some weird stalinverse? |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 5:49:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
A fast action hunting rifle sounds dumb. What else did this guy revolutionize? Seems like that Clap guy who sells metal guns with the police chalk outline already made on the grips. A fast action hunting rifle is a great idea. A forward mounted scope so you can use stripper clips to repel boarders is dumb. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 6:16:56 AM EDT
[#16]
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A fast action hunting rifle is a great idea. A forward mounted scope so you can use stripper clips to repel boarders is dumb. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A fast action hunting rifle sounds dumb. What else did this guy revolutionize? Seems like that Clap guy who sells metal guns with the police chalk outline already made on the grips. A fast action hunting rifle is a great idea. A forward mounted scope so you can use stripper clips to repel boarders is dumb. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 6:23:35 AM EDT
[#17]
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And yet that's not what the scout rifle is about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A fast action hunting rifle sounds dumb. What else did this guy revolutionize? Seems like that Clap guy who sells metal guns with the police chalk outline already made on the grips. A fast action hunting rifle is a great idea. A forward mounted scope so you can use stripper clips to repel boarders is dumb. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 6:40:51 AM EDT
[#18]
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Not really. The idea was seriously discussed in the '80's & a commercial offering wasn't made until the late 90's. By then there were plenty of lightweight, reliable semi autos, making the bolt action unnecessary. They all came with detachable box magazines, making the stripper clips unnecessary. The scout rifle would have been great in the early 1900's. Not so much after. The cooper scout rifle made still today is just a detachable mag variant that doesn't accept stripper clips. The stripper clips idea was for older mil rifles to be converted to scout rifles as most/some accept strippers. The long eye relief scope allows you to shoot with both eyes open and the rifle also has flip up sights, the forward mounting design was also a plus because you can use stripper clips without a offset mount. These are a big plus with hunting large and dangerous game as you want peripheral vision at all times and if needed you can chunk the scoe and have decent sights if damaged. Don't get me wrong, a semi rifle with detachable mag is the bee's knees but if you can only have a bolt guns then it's a great setup. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 6:54:29 AM EDT
[#19]
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Everything I ever read was that it was supposed to be a rifle that could hunt and fight. But it wasn't about stripper clips or forward-mounted scopes. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 7:03:32 AM EDT
[#20]
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The scout rifle idea was also based on a fact that it may be illegal to hunt game with a semi and they seem popular in states/countries that have this law. The idea for stripper clips was because detachable mag bolt guns were not popular/wide spread pre 2000. The cooper scout rifle made still today is just a detachable mag variant that doesn't accept stripper clips. The stripper clips idea was for older mil rifles to be converted to scout rifles as most/some accept strippers. The long eye relief scope allows you to shoot with both eyes open and the rifle also has flip up sights, the forward mounting design was also a plus because you can use stripper clips without a offset mount. These are a big plus with hunting large and dangerous game as you want peripheral vision at all times and if needed you can chunk the scoe and have decent sights if damaged. Don't get me wrong, a semi rifle with detachable mag is the bee's knees but if you can only have a bolt guns then it's a great setup. There is no "Cooper Scout Rifle" sold as such today. The Ruger Gunsite Scout veers off farther than other rifles that he did not consider scouts. Long, protruding mags that could not be topped off were definitely not the sort of thing he would have favoured. He liked the forward-mounted scope, and for a time promoted it as the only suitable optic, because of its features and how they served the end purpose of the scout rifle endeavour. As you say, part of it was peripheral vision. Another was speed. Very important were that it did not interfere with grasping the piece at the balance for carrying in the field and that it allowed for eyes-off reloading with individual cartridges. A happy coincidence was that it also allowed rifles equipped with chargers to be loaded with them, but again, this was not the object. Irons-only with irons that could be acquired quickly enough for snap-shooting (like the ghost ring sight) were acceptable as the primary sight (and mandatory as the back-up to optics), and he considered other optics. Only a few years before he died he stated that the sighting system had the biggest room for future improvement. For large and dangerous game, he developed the medium scout, and for the largest, most dangerous game, he preferred heavy rifles, with his rifle "Baby" being his fsavourite by far (and it was a custom build). It definitely was no scout rifle. He wasn't a huge fan of optics for the really dangerous stuff, either (which is why "Baby" always was an irons-only rifle). |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 7:13:18 AM EDT
[#21]
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Cooper read a lot about, and part of the idea of the scout rifle as mentioned was based on Burnham. Burnham was the progenitor of the boy scouts. What if these boy scout rifle advocates are advanced scouts from the Rhodesiaverse coming to take back saigamantx who clearly escaped to come live in our world? |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 8:08:22 AM EDT
[#22]
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Who is Burnham? Baden-Powell was the founder of Boy Scouts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cooper read a lot about, and part of the idea of the scout rifle as mentioned was based on Burnham. Burnham was the progenitor of the boy scouts. What if these boy scout rifle advocates are advanced scouts from the Rhodesiaverse coming to take back saigamantx who clearly escaped to come live in our world? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Russell_Burnham |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 8:46:04 AM EDT
[#23]
I have a pseudo-mini-scout rifle. its a 16" NRA mini14. I put on an Ultimak rail and a 2X7 Burris pistol scope. both eyes open at 2X, use like a red dot.
close the off eye at 7X for longer shots. it handles well and balances well, cheek weld is great. tried conventional scopes, way too high on the rifle for me. no stripper clip guide and it ain`t a .308. but its short fun and fast. everyone who has shot it really liked it. would I take it into battle? only if I had to, but thats not what its for. I have read all I know of on the Scout concept and thats not my rifle. I think the scout idea is like boxer shorts or chili dogs or anything else. it either makes sense to you and you can use it, or it don`t and you ignore it. If it were my only rifle I would be well-armed, but not best_armed. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:10:34 AM EDT
[#24]
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Read up on a genuine American badass: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Russell_Burnham Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cooper read a lot about, and part of the idea of the scout rifle as mentioned was based on Burnham. Burnham was the progenitor of the boy scouts. What if these boy scout rifle advocates are advanced scouts from the Rhodesiaverse coming to take back saigamantx who clearly escaped to come live in our world? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Russell_Burnham |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:12:35 AM EDT
[#25]
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More hunt than fight, but above all be able to carry around all day, when you weren't shooting it. But it wasn't about stripper clips or forward-mounted scopes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Everything I ever read was that it was supposed to be a rifle that could hunt and fight. But it wasn't about stripper clips or forward-mounted scopes. 
In which case, like I said in my first post. A light weight, fast handling rifle for hunting is a great idea. Most of my hunting rifles are light and fast. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:16:20 AM EDT
[#26]
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On the bright side OP, you and the COL are both currently putting out the same number of new, insightful ideas. 
Morons gonna mo, #amiright? |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:23:53 AM EDT
[#27]
This is crazy.
I suspect this is pretty damned close to the how this all went down. Col Cooper thinks to self; "What can I come up with to sell to all these people who listen to me? I have had a few ideas to kick around that no one else is doing. Hey, this magazine is paying me by the word for an article, I could talk about my new innovations and get some guys together and sell the rifle I talk about. " AND y'all are still arguing about it. 
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:30:27 AM EDT
[#28]
I agree, the Scout sucks. I much prefer the AWP.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:34:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Your handgun caliber needs to start with a ".4". Not anymore.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:36:24 AM EDT
[#30]
The purse swinging is bizarre
- there is a time the Scout rifle made sense- ironically I think it would have been around the time Cooper was in combat and prior. Before he developed it - there are people who enjoy firearms beyond their functionality. We don't all own Glocks and Camerys. Sometime you marry a red-head and buy a Hellcat, because 'Merica - long eye relief scopes are unusual, 2nd best, and dated, but they stil work. - bolt actions are dated, but they still work. I enjoy shooting a bolt gun. I enjoy shooting iron sights. I like a light rifle as I spend far more time walking than shooting when I have a gun. I'd like a gun bigger than 223 (243 does an southern Arizonan nicely). Not everything in the real world is a 3-gun match. this thread makes me want a scout rifle. Ill admit, I think in Southern Arizona an AR in 6.5 Grendel is about the most logical gun for wandering the desert and hunting...but sometimes I don't want to shoot an AR |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:40:11 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The purse swinging is bizarre - there is a time the Scout rifle made sense- ironically I think it would have been around the time Cooper was in combat and prior. Before he developed it - there are people who enjoy firearms beyond their functionality. We don't all own Glocks and Camerys. Sometime you marry a red-head and buy a Hellcat, because 'Merica - long eye relief scopes are unusual, 2nd best, and dated, but they stil work. - bolt actions are dated, but they still work. I enjoy shooting a bolt gun. I enjoy shooting iron sights. I like a light rifle as I spend far more time walking than shooting when I have a gun. I'd like a gun bigger than 223 (243 does an southern Arizonan nicely). Not everything in the real world is a 3-gun match. this thread makes me want a scout rifle. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:57:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
A fast action hunting rifle sounds dumb. What else did this guy revolutionize? Seems like that Clap guy who sells metal guns with the police chalk outline already made on the grips. It may seem like a dumb idea, but that's because you've never had to manage farm/ranch property, or travel long distances with a rifle that you won't shoot very much, I suspect. The Scout concept is a really good one. It's just outdated. Same with the Bren Ten. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:03:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Eugene stoners rifle?
You know, the one that pushed the bolt open with the burnt propellant? Cause it won't ever get dirty |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:18:30 AM EDT
[#34]
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I think Sonny Crockett had the only Bren Ten magazine in existence
I had one on order back then but got my money back after I found out the first few were shipping without mags.... 
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:26:05 AM EDT
[#35]
I think in his day he was a pioneer
4 rules of firearms safety IPSC shooting school that was about defensive shooting yes, he was dated in his thinking. Like my father, an old Marine officer who liked .30 cal better than that dammed M16 mouse gun In the 1960's 1970's a good 1911 was better than a 9mm this was before polymer hicaps and HST ammo God bless him even if he was wrong about the AR15 Overall, he was a positive thing for the gun community 
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:28:50 AM EDT
[#36]
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I used to cringe watching those drop on the ground....I always hoped those were fake Bren mags...
I had one on order back then but got my money back after I found out the first few were shipping without mags.... |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:31:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Holding anyone as an icon whose ideas are 100% timeless and beyond reproach is a bit of an iffy way to go through life but one needs to remember that this was once the proper way to use a handgun and modern methods would have been entirely wrong.
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:32:23 AM EDT
[#38]
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Mover over scout rifle. There's a new multi-purpose light weight rifle put together by a Marine who also started a niche action shooting competition that's grown into a multi-state phenomenon and also created a modern shooting school, and has print work in gun rags, in town. http://i58.tinypic.com/nb6azc.jpg That's right. Richard Driver is the new Cooper... But for some reason people were stuck on low capacity bolt guns. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:41:05 AM EDT
[#39]
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Do we get a reward for turning him in? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cooper read a lot about, and part of the idea of the scout rifle as mentioned was based on Burnham. Burnham was the progenitor of the boy scouts. What if these boy scout rifle advocates are advanced scouts from the Rhodesiaverse coming to take back saigamantx who clearly escaped to come live in our world?
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:50:31 AM EDT
[#40]
I read Coopers Corner fanatically. I still miss it to this day.
You have to understand.....EVERYTHING he considered regarding firearms was about putting 1 or 2 shots in the right place and moving on. He derided the "spray and pray" mentality in every column. Ever read his comments on the "Social Shotgun"? No extended magazines for the Colonel. Why the recent infatuation with tearing down his opinions....written fucking YEARS ago? I promise if he were still alive his thoughts would have evolved to match what he would consider the best of modern gear. Ever read Elmer Keith? He did awesome things for handgunning, and yet some of his ideas are now dated. So? 2 things jump out at me....dogging Cooper is another symptom of some of the cyber commandos on here infatuated with the unreal scenario of defending themselves against a swarming horde of attackers. Not unrelated to the "shotguns suck" mentality. Cooper had an actual grasp of reality, something lacking in many of you Rambo wannabes. All of that said, 2 things I disagree with Cooper on....I think a peep sight is easier, quicker, and just as accurate as a low power (2x?) forward mount scope. And the Yaqui holster is a shitty holster. When do we start shredding Charlie Askins and Bill Jordan?
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:50:36 AM EDT
[#41]
A lot of what the Col said was true.
I never warmed to the scout rifle concept, though. To purposefully limit yourself to a 5 shot, bolt action rifle with all the other options out there is retarded. Watch 5 minutes of the LA riots and tell me you want to have a scout rifle instead of an AR. AR rifles are light enough, reliable enough, rugged enough and powerful enough while giving vastly superior round count and follow up shots. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 11:36:46 AM EDT
[#42]
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Mover over scout rifle. There's a new multi-purpose light weight rifle put together by a Marine who also started a niche action shooting competition that's grown into a multi-state phenomenon and also created a modern shooting school, and has print work in gun rags, in town. http://i58.tinypic.com/nb6azc.jpg That's right. Richard Driver is the new Cooper...
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Posted: 6/29/2017 11:48:55 AM EDT
[#43]
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Didn't he take a single action revolver into combat when he could have had a 1911? Firearms genius I tell you! "I used to think the single action army was a perfectly sufficient sidearm. The first time I had to reload in the dark, under pressure, I changed my mind." But please don't let me de-rail your hatred for someone who had far more knowledge and experience than you do. 
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Posted: 6/29/2017 11:53:12 AM EDT
[#44]
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Single stack full size handguns.  (Hint: FBI stats say the average gunfight sees about 3 or 4 rounds fired)
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:21:07 PM EDT
[#45]
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Well it will take further study but current data shows that each universe is overrun with Mosin fanboys. They do not stem from any single universe. I believe they are part of an omnipotent evil entity hell bent on propagating shitty rifles throughout the multiverse. That's the only explanation I can think of that explains why there's so many mosins and idiots that think they're sniper rifles. Mosin owners are minions of the Great Dark Rifle Gods of Chaos. 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1669630_Mosin_Nagant_Enthusiasts_are_the_lowest_form_of_gun_owner.html |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:24:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Well it will take further study but current data shows that each universe is overrun with Mosin fanboys. They do not stem from any single universe. I believe they are part of an omnipotent evil entity hell bent on propagating shitty rifles throughout the multiverse. That's the only explanation I can think of that explains why there's so many mosins and idiots that think they're sniper rifles. Mosin owners are minions of the Great Dark Rifle Gods of Chaos.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1669630_Mosin_Nagant_Enthusiasts_are_the_lowest_form_of_gun_owner.html |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:30:17 PM EDT
[#47]
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What if you can only afford a type 53? Oddly enough had a Type 53 come in the shop couple weeks ago |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:39:15 PM EDT
[#48]
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IIRC you were in on the first page of that thread Oddly enough had a Type 53 come in the shop couple weeks ago Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What if you can only afford a type 53? Oddly enough had a Type 53 come in the shop couple weeks ago
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:48:17 PM EDT
[#49]
So, a scout rifle is a magazine fed bolt action rifle? I thought the Lee-Enfield already accomplished that in 1895. Who is this Johnny come lately Cooper guy?
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Posted: 6/29/2017 12:51:31 PM EDT
[#50]
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On the bright side OP, you and the COL are both currently putting out the same number of new, insightful ideas. |
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