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Posted: 6/26/2017 11:35:49 PM EDT
http://www.newsweek.com/older-fathers-geek-sons-study-627541

Older fathers appear to have geekier sons, scientists have discovered. In a study of over 30,000 twins, researchers found boys who had older fathers scored higher on the “geek index”—and that the older the father, the higher the score. (The geek effect was only seen in boys.)

By the age of 12, boys with older fathers were found to be more intelligent, more focused on their interests and were less concerned about whether or not they fitted in with their peers.

While there has been much research showing the negative impact having children later in life can have—including increased risk of autism and schizophrenia—little has been done into the potential benefits.

The latest study, published in the journal Translational Psychiatry on Tuesday, indicates there are evolutionary advantages for men having children later in life.

Scientists from the U.K and the U.S. collected cognitive and behavioral data on 15,000 sets of twins. At the age of 12, they completed tests measuring their “geeky” traits, including their non-verbal IQ, their focus on subjects of interest and their social aloofness. Parents were asked how they were perceived by their peers and if they had interests that dominated their time.

From this, the researchers were able to produce a “geek index score” for each child in the study and to compare it to the age of the parents.

Their findings showed a correlation between the age of the father and the geekiness of the sons, with a positive correlation between the two—the older the father, the geekier the son. They also noticed geek traits appeared more after the age of 45.

Geeky boys did better in school exams, especially STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths) subjects, suggesting they would be more successful in their careers as adults.

The authors say there are several limitations to the study. They were not able to determine whether the geek effect extended beyond secondary education and future success, adding it “remains possible that personality traits associated with GI [geek index] cease to be advantageous in later life.” For example, being flexible and socially aware rather than focusing on a single goal may provide more benefits in the work environment in the long-term.

They also said they could not verify whether geek traits were associated with things like poor emotional and social functioning.

However, they said the findings show there may be some benefits associated with having an older father.

Study author Magdalena Janecka tells Newsweek: “Our primary hypothesis is that higher levels of those ‘geeky’ traits in offspring of older men are mainly due is due to characteristics of the fathers themselves. Men who decide to delay fatherhood often do so due to their extended career and educational pursuits, and likely themselves display higher levels of ‘geekiness.’”

Another implication of the study is the link between autism and higher paternal age. The scientists were not able to measure the link directly, but say that some of the genes relating to geekiness and autism overlap, and that these genes may be more prevalent in older fathers.

If a child is only born with some of these genes, it may help them succeed in school, but if they get a “higher dose,” they may be more at risk of autism.

This link could also explain why the geek effect was only seen in boys. “We think the reasons for this may be similar to those why females seem protected from autism in general,” Janecka says. “For some reason, there could be a selective passage of those traits from fathers to son, but biologically, we still do not know how this could work.”
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:11:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Interesting. Since IQ increases with age, I wonder if that's a factor.

Oh, and there's definitely some crossover between high intelligence and the spectrum.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:18:31 AM EDT
[#2]
My dad was 37 when I was born, and I was always among the smartest in my classes back in school. I can also remember some of the other smarter guys also having older fathers.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:22:17 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:22:30 AM EDT
[#4]
I would posit there are several factors. The biggest I would think is that greater maturity means simply being a better parent and role model.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:28:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My dad was 37 when I was born, and I was always among the smartest in my classes back in school. I can also remember some of the other smarter guys also having older fathers.
View Quote
Mine was about the same age and I'm undoubtedly among the smartest here...

Far more so than the pitiful academics...

Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:30:28 AM EDT
[#6]
My dad's boss at his first job was a Civil War vet.  

....and I am about 40.


That might explain why I am such a huge geek.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:35:42 AM EDT
[#7]
My boys were born when I was 38 and 40..Both are in the National Junior Honor Society and nerdy as fuck
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:37:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Maybe dear old dad wasn't exactly a lady killer himself
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:40:30 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm 38. One of my two year old boys can fucking read.  No shit. He sounds out each letter first then puts the word together.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:42:21 AM EDT
[#10]
I suspect it is correlation.  The smarter fathers are late bloomers with the ladies, get married later, and have kids later.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:51:34 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm going to go with this.  Fucking smart people don't shit out kids until they know they can care for them.  

From the article:

"Study author Magdalena Janecka tells Newsweek: “Our primary hypothesis is that higher levels of those ‘geeky’ traits in offspring of older men are mainly due is due to characteristics of the fathers themselves. Men who decide to delay fatherhood often do so due to their extended career and educational pursuits, and likely themselves display higher levels of ‘geekiness.’” 
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 7:27:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Correlation does not imply causation.

And how many people say, "Yeah, I'm proud of my kid's 70 IQ!"  Everybody's kid is smart.  

Reading at two?  Big deal.  My son was writing the Greek alphabet on the driveway with sidewalk chalk when he was two.  He also just scored 1550 on the SAT.  So there.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 7:33:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Gives me hope. I'm 38 and we're working on our first. I have the iq of a deck chair. My wife is a grave robber and hella smart.  Maybe there is hope
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 7:36:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would posit there are several factors. The biggest I would think is that greater maturity means simply being a better parent and role model.
View Quote
Also slightly less active, a 20 something father more likely to play a lot of football, baseball with the kid, than a 40 something
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 7:42:17 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Interesting. Since IQ increases with age, I wonder if that's a factor.

Oh, and there's definitely some crossover between high intelligence and the spectrum.
View Quote
Crystallized intelligence (ability to apply knowledge to solving problems) can increase with age, but fluid intelligence (the ability to solve new problems) actually decreases with age. Unless you're saying that dumber people die off sooner.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 8:19:37 AM EDT
[#16]
I have to disagree, my kids go from oldest to youngest, from smart to not so smart...34, 28 and 19. The 19yo is loser incorporated
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 8:28:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Well I'm 22. I guess my kid is screwed
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 8:56:26 AM EDT
[#18]
I was 37 and 38 when my boys were born (13 months apart).
Nerdy? I don't know.
The social part? If they pick it up from me.... I'm age 50 and happily getting more antisocial every day.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 9:17:34 AM EDT
[#19]
I think there is a lot of truth to this theory.  I showed this article to my wife and she agrees with many of it's points too.


I had my first son when I was 43 y/o (wife and I tried for 10 years).  He is the smartest kid I know and I can see how he looks at things completely different than other kids his age and learn new subject very quickly...and he is a geek and he's proud of it.  His favorite reply to people who call him a geek is "be nice to a geek, one day you'll likely be working for one".   He learned sign language on his own by watching children TV show when he was less than 2 y/o.  When he was a little after 2 he started reading words and before he was 3 he memorized "Green Eggs and Ham" word by word and could recite the whole book.  He was reading at 7th grade level by the time he was in 1st grade and now as a 5th grader he reads at college level.  He's the science wiz kid in school and teachers depend on him to keep the class computers running.  Since 3rd grade he wants to be a NASA scientist...not astronaut because that's too risky and he feels he doesn't have the athletic physical skills or strength for the job.  

As an older parent (my wife was 35 y/o when he was born) we are financially much more secure and able to provide him with more opportunities to learn and expand his mind.  He likes space and NASA so we go visit Kennedy Space Center frequently, he's going to attend Space camp in 2 years, he's visited 12 different countries to learn about other cultures, he has most up to date computers and electronic devices, go to interesting science summer camps, etc...if he needs something to learn he'll get it.  Only thing that doesn't match his personality is his love of dancing...hip-hop dancing.  He's been going to a modern dance studio to dance hip-hop since he was 5 y/o.  During summer he attends their summer camp and he dances 3-5 hours a day.  His group performs publicly once in a while and he's really good dancer.  When I asked him why he likes to dance he replied that he wants a part of his to be completely different from his academic life so his life is balanced.
but he is
One small issue he has is social skills as he has very good social skills with adults but needs some help with other kids his age.  But it's not a big problem at this point and he has a child development psychologist he sees every 2 weeks to help him...and it's been a big help for him.  Basically his development level is way above most of his peers so he has some difficulty relating to them.  Good news is he has 2 very good school friends who relates to him at his level.  

I would love for him to have more interest like me but I know I can't force that upon him.  I love to hunt, fish, camp, basically I love everything outdoors and I'm very physical.  I take him out to our farm once in a while and we enjoy shooting together.  He loves to look up the ballistic calculator to calculate the bullet's path of travel...for a 22lr out of his AR.  I don't push him into it but I can see that he's developing some enjoyment being outdoors.

My son is totally different from me and my wife as we are both very social creatures and grew up being very physical and athletic but he is an amazing kid and I'm proud and love him very much and can't wait to see him as an adult.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 9:27:53 AM EDT
[#20]
I'd rather risk average intelligence than aspergers. You can keep your expired sperm.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 9:35:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd rather risk average intelligence than aspergers. You can keep your expired sperm.
View Quote

Oh yeah, it's men that have that ticking clock inside them. 
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 9:46:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Chicken : Egg 

Smarter / wealthier people wait longer to have kids.  Dumb people waiting to have kids will still (on average) will still have dumb kids. 
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 9:49:18 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:

Oh yeah, it's men that have that ticking clock inside them. 
View Quote
It appears we both do.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 9:53:56 AM EDT
[#24]
I was 41 when my son was born,

He is a straight A Honors student in a Pre-IB Program at a Technology Magnet High School, definitely a geek and seemingly unconcerned  about others opinion of him.

I was the opposite.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 9:59:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I suspect it is correlation.  The smarter fathers are late bloomers with the ladies, get married later, and have kids later.
View Quote
Or the fathers decided to put job/career first in their 20's and early 30's, and wait until they are better financially situated to start a family.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:04:34 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd rather risk average intelligence than aspergers. You can keep your expired sperm.
View Quote
Spermatogenesis....how does it work?
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:06:27 AM EDT
[#27]
I don't know about males but, (data point of one) my ex-boss had a girl when he was 56. Looks like him and finally flunked out of Jr College. Is set for life financially, so I guess it's a push.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:11:31 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


Spermatogenesis....how does it work?
View Quote
Meiosis and mitosis, but I was referring to all the studies lining older fathers with mental illness and disease in children.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:14:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Spermatogenesis....how does it work?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd rather risk average intelligence than aspergers. You can keep your expired sperm.
Spermatogenesis....how does it work?
http://genetics.thetech.org/older-dads%E2%80%99-kids-higher-risk-genetic-disease


The idea that only the mother's age matters died out long ago.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:14:34 AM EDT
[#30]
I think I am a better father being older because I am more stable and more patient than I was.  I was 40 when my first son was born. 
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:15:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Hmmm, I'd rather have what my "young sperm" produced...high IQ, athletic, and social.

Oldest son is in his senior year at one of the top 3 engineering schools in the country, getting his degree in Nuclear Engineering, played football, wrestled in high school, and wrestles in college.  I was 20 when he was born.

The other 4 boys are all well above average, intelligence-wise (although not MENSA or anything, mind you), athletic (2-3 sport athletes) and socially well adjusted.  I was 32 when the last one was born.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:16:56 AM EDT
[#32]
Hopefully this is true. I am 37 and our boy is due in 6 weeks.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:26:47 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My dad's boss at his first job was a Civil War vet.  

....and I am about 40.


That might explain why I am such a huge geek.
View Quote
That's crazy to think about. My dad's dad's older brother delivered ice for ice boxes on a horse drawn carriage, and it's entirely possible he worked with Civil War vets. My dad's dad was 17 when Wyatt Earp died.  That's amazing to think of all that's happened in the world from the time of my granddad's birth (1912) through the birth of my son (2013).

My dad was 37 when he had me, which may help explain my superior intelligence... I was 35 when I had my son, and he's clearly more advanced than the other Pre-K students in his class... 
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:29:32 AM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
I have to disagree, my kids go from oldest to youngest, from smart to not so smart...34, 28 and 19. The 19yo is loser incorporated
View Quote
LOL!
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:31:50 AM EDT
[#35]
I must be the exception to the rule...
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 10:49:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Maybe the older parents just wanted the kid.  We were in our thirties before having kids.  Unlike some of the younger parents we would rather stay home and read to our kids over partying.

My kids are straight A's and always score at least 30% over the mean on testing.  Smarter than me for sure.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 11:07:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Had my first at 37, he's 8 now. We put him in private school and he's a pretty damn smart kid so far. I can see his geekyness coming out from time to time.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 11:13:10 AM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:
I think I am a better father being older because I am more stable and more patient than I was.  I was 40 when my first son was born. 
View Quote
Yeah, that's true too in our case.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 11:50:43 AM EDT
[#39]
I think there is some truth to this.  My daughter was brought along older in age and excels academically at a college prep school.  Natural leader among her peers.

My sister's youngest son is borderline autistic.  Doesn't say much but when he does, it's deep.  Very serious and goal oriented.  Also academically gifted. Natural athlete as well.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 11:57:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That's crazy to think about. My dad's dad's older brother delivered ice for ice boxes on a horse drawn carriage, and it's entirely possible he worked with Civil War vets. My dad's dad was 17 when Wyatt Earp died.  That's amazing to think of all that's happened in the world from the time of my granddad's birth (1912) through the birth of my son (2013).

My dad was 37 when he had me, which may help explain my superior intelligence... I was 35 when I had my son, and he's clearly more advanced than the other Pre-K students in his class... 
View Quote
Yeah, the past is often closer than we think. (I am certainly an outlier though)

My dad was born prior to 1910. My dad was an adult during the great depression and when he was born, there were still people alive that had been alive when George Washington as alive.  

He was well into his 80's when I was in high school.

It is strange being a gen X having been raised by an someone on the older end of the G.I. Generation.  I walk through life seeing things much different than my cohort. It has been a touch isolating but at the same time, has served me well.  

I am married to a much younger woman and could end up having kids well into my 50's.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 11:58:55 AM EDT
[#41]
I'm 43 and with our first son expected to be born this December. I am kinda worried about autism, seems so widespread today.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 12:06:25 PM EDT
[#42]
I posit the converse of this is the salient point - young men (boys) raising children of their own pass on a large degree of immaturity (and the baggage associated with that).

There is no biologic reason that older men would produce smarter offspring.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 12:17:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Meiosis and mitosis, but I was referring to all the studies lining older fathers with mental illness and disease in children.
View Quote
Do those studies also include that older men tend to get lucky with older women as well? Because those eggs are made once and by age 40-45 they are starting to turn FAST... while guys still got a factory turning out new ones. (though the blue prints are getting faded after long enough).

That being said, humans are crappy experimental subjects. We drink poisons, don't always act in our best long term intrests, environmental pressures can influence physical traits,  and are widely genetically varied between siblings much less between random samples.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 12:25:36 PM EDT
[#44]
My dad was 41 when I was born. Explains why I'm so smart

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm 43 and with our first son expected to be born this December. I am kinda worried about autism, seems so widespread today.
View Quote
Just raise him without it
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 12:35:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Probably true. My dad was late 28 or 29 when I was born. So, leave me alone....im 'bating.


Oh, and I like mooneyy.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 12:39:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Huh.  I was 23 when I had my first.  32 for my last kid.  My girls are both straight A students, the youngest scored in the 99th percentile on her tests.  My oldest son was in the 93rd percentile and is pretty athletic.  He was riding dirt bikes by age 4 ( no training wheels), is the leading scorer in soccer and never used the tee this year in t-ball (first three pitches are coach pitch).  The youngest is only 2.5, but is sharp as a tack and is trying to ride his bike with no training wheels.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#47]
My dad made me at 40.  I made my youngest at 39.  I'm a geek, so is my youngest son.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:09:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I suspect it is correlation.  The smarter fathers are late bloomers with the ladies, get married later, and have kids later.
View Quote
this is my line of thinking as well. Smarter people tend to have kids later in life and heredity plays at least some part in intelligence.
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:13:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Correlation does not imply causation.

And how many people say, "Yeah, I'm proud of my kid's 70 IQ!"  Everybody's kid is smart.  

Reading at two?  Big deal.  My son was writing the Greek alphabet on the driveway with sidewalk chalk when he was two.  He also just scored 1550 on the SAT.  So there.
View Quote
You realize it goes to 2400 now, right?
Link Posted: 6/27/2017 1:16:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm 38. One of my two year old boys can fucking read.  No shit. He sounds out each letter first then puts the word together.
View Quote
That's cool as hell!
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