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Posted: 6/26/2017 8:48:16 PM EDT
[#1]
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Oh well, insurance isn't a right. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:40:12 AM EDT
[#2]
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Which is what needs to happen. Make Darwin great again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is that counting the tens of thousands it would kill?  Make Darwin great again. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:42:56 AM EDT
[#3]
A large number of people with "insurance" right now have a deductible that's so high they might as well not have insurance.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:51:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A large number of people with "insurance" right now have a deductible that's so high they might as well not have insurance. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:20:56 AM EDT
[#5]
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For most young healthy people a catastrophic policy should cover anything they need. If they need a $1500 procedure they should pay for it like they would anything else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A large number of people with "insurance" right now have a deductible that's so high they might as well not have insurance. My family plan costs almost $1K/mo in premiums, with a $12K deductible. Effectively I have to pay $24K out of pocket before I get any benefit from insurance, and even then they only pay 60%. We don't go to the doctor unless is a life-threatening emergency. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:28:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$1500 is not a "high" deductible. My family plan costs almost $1K/mo in premiums, with a $12K deductible. Effectively I have to pay $24K out of pocket before I get any benefit from insurance, and even then they only pay 60%. We don't go to the doctor unless is a life-threatening emergency. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A large number of people with "insurance" right now have a deductible that's so high they might as well not have insurance. My family plan costs almost $1K/mo in premiums, with a $12K deductible. Effectively I have to pay $24K out of pocket before I get any benefit from insurance, and even then they only pay 60%. We don't go to the doctor unless is a life-threatening emergency. ETA: my parents raised 8 kids with no fucking insurance, and no we never used Medicaid. We payed cash for stiches and casts, and payed off our larger debts for long hospital stays, even if it was painful financially. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:01:25 AM EDT
[#7]
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I never said it was, a $10-20k deductible should be fine for young healthy adults. An HSA in conjunction would be a good idea as well. You get cancer or have a major accident? You aren't automatically bankrupt. ETA: my parents raised 8 kids with no fucking insurance, and no we never used Medicaid. We payed cash for stiches and casts, and payed off our larger debts for long hospital stays, even if it was painful financially. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A large number of people with "insurance" right now have a deductible that's so high they might as well not have insurance. My family plan costs almost $1K/mo in premiums, with a $12K deductible. Effectively I have to pay $24K out of pocket before I get any benefit from insurance, and even then they only pay 60%. We don't go to the doctor unless is a life-threatening emergency. ETA: my parents raised 8 kids with no fucking insurance, and no we never used Medicaid. We payed cash for stiches and casts, and payed off our larger debts for long hospital stays, even if it was painful financially. HSA's sound great on paper, but too many are reluctant to put money into "just in case" things for them to really work, IMHO. It's really just another form of insurance in the end, and this whole mess came about because most aren't smart enough to put money away - or in insurance premiums - if they're not forced to do it. (and no, I'm not saying forcing them to do it is the answer) I don't recall a lot of expensive medical treatment when I was growing up either, but I suspect part of that is because there was a day when you could actually afford to do it out of pocket. That was before the day of $26 Advil tablets and $75 rolls of gauze. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:08:28 AM EDT
[#8]
Fucking healthcare isn't a god-damn right. Shove that bill up their asses like they did to us.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:39:15 AM EDT
[#9]
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The DNC is claiming that tens of thousands will die under the GOP plan. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:41:38 AM EDT
[#10]
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Those are the same people who only have insurance because under Obamacare, there is a penalty/fine for NOT having it. Without that penalty, these people never would have signed up for the insurance they will "lose". So it's a bit like going back to square one. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:49:29 AM EDT
[#11]
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Oh well, insurance isn't a right. Neither is having your healthcare subsidized. You have the right to walk into a hospital and not be turned away, but that is where it ends. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:55:09 AM EDT
[#12]
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I agree 100% Neither is having your healthcare subsidized. You have the right to walk into a hospital and not be turned away, but that is where it ends. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh well, insurance isn't a right. Neither is having your healthcare subsidized. You have the right to walk into a hospital and not be turned away, but that is where it ends. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 8:11:04 AM EDT
[#13]
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No. But the chances of the health-care bill passing now just took a big nose dive. NO, lol. Deficit reduction is a boom to conservatives and they know that most of the 26M is those that don't want insurance. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 8:17:47 AM EDT
[#14]
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I wish they'd just either let Obamacare die, or repeal it. Screw a bunch of replacing it. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 8:55:37 AM EDT
[#15]
Why would I believe anything that the CBO says?
Or anyone else up there. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 9:29:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No able-bodied adult's insurance should be subsidized, and I don't care how many that puts in the 'uninsured' category. I've always paid for my own, and never had too much trouble doing it until I started having to pay for everybody else's too. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 9:38:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A large number of people with "insurance" right now have a deductible that's so high they might as well not have insurance. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 9:41:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree 100% Neither is having your healthcare subsidized. You have the right to walk into a hospital and not be turned away, but that is where it ends. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 9:44:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Before my country showed its ass and put that Muslim fuck in office ( twice for the love of God) I truely considered myself a good Christian. I man with passion and respect towards my fellow man. A man who raised his family with good Christian values and an attempt to walk the path that our lord showed us that was right and good...
...8 years later, Fuck the entire lot of them. Get a job, become a productive member of society or fuck off and die! |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 9:55:47 AM EDT
[#20]
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Foxnews DEVELOPING ... Senate Republicans’ health care bill would reduce the federal deficit and eventually lead to lower premiums, but would result in millions more Americans being uninsured a decade from now, according to a fresh analysis from Capitol Hill’s nonpartisan budget scorekeepers. Why 27 million are still uninsured - Bloomberg Since when is it the business of the CBO to tell us who is going to be insured and who isn't. Screw the government bean counters. Their interest is in their own interest, not ours. Their numbers reflect what the government's cost is going to be, not what it is going to cost the average joe. Repeal the dumbass stupid law known as obamacare. Pass free market reforms(whatever that might be, it doesn't matter). Get the government out of our damn healthcare. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 10:00:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote History Pass free market reforms(whatever that might be, it doesn't matter). Get the government out of our damn healthcare. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 10:05:38 AM EDT
[#22]
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CBO is talking 22,000,000 without insurance by 2026? |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 10:09:40 AM EDT
[#23]
The Senate bill won't pass. And it wouldn't lower the deficit anyway. Nothing Congress does lowers the deficit.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 10:17:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Unless you work for a business with enough employees to comprise a separate group, our insurance system is truly fucked, and I don't see either version of this bill making it better.
I own my own business, and have been fortunate enough to bring in a top 1% income for many years. As such, I'm not really even bitching about the costs of a private plan, which in my area have more than doubled for me since the beginning of Obamacare. What I am bitching about is that my choices of different plans have practically evaporated over the same time period. Essentially, in my area, the choices dwindled down to exactly one plan that offered any reasonable coverage regardless of cost. One... If that number dwindles further, I'm not really sure what to do. The wife and I have seriously discussed her getting the stupid easiest, least stressful job she could find just to qualify us for insurance through an employer group. This is very frustrating, as there is absolutely no other reason she would need to hold down a job and take time away from raising our children. I fear this issue will be death of the Republican majority. Whether we agree or not, I believe the majority of voting age Americans believe people are "entitled" to healthcare. Putting a Republican stamp on a bill that further increases cost, and raises the number of uninsured citizens will not bode well for them. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 10:35:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Report
So, an average of 11.4 million people are expected to be in Obamacare policies during 2017. Some 10.4 million people were enrolled as of June, the most recent figures available. The Obama administration is encouraging people to sign up to show Trump and Congressional Republicans how important Obamacare is to Americans.Dec 21, 2016 There is roughly 330 million people in the United States and only 11.4 million people are expected to be in Obamacare policies during 2017 and they are saying 22-27 million will not be on insurance under the new program. Well how many will be on insurance under the new program lets be fair here. Will there be more than 11.4 million people that are expected to be on Obamacare ask the same questions Why aren't these Senators looking at the same information I am, it's common sense thinking. The numbers are looking at from two different angles. One shows positive and one negative. There are 11.4 million people on obama care hypothetically. Under the new insurance program would that number increase. I've not heard this. Plus you can't subtract 22-27 million from 11.4 million someone lieing. These Senators that are against this based off of this report are Never Trumpers or are just plain stupid. The current program is imploding. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 10:42:08 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CBO is talking 22,000,000 without insurance by 2026? |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:39:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No able-bodied adult's insurance should be subsidized, and I don't care how many that puts in the 'uninsured' category. I've always paid for my own, and never had too much trouble doing it until I started having to pay for everybody else's too. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:40:17 AM EDT
[#28]
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If you have employer provided insurance, you are subsidized. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No able-bodied adult's insurance should be subsidized, and I don't care how many that puts in the 'uninsured' category. I've always paid for my own, and never had too much trouble doing it until I started having to pay for everybody else's too. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:41:33 AM EDT
[#29]
To maintain his campaign promise, Trump better veto it.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:41:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They added a provision to the new bill that says if you are uninsured for longer than 63 days you have to wait 6 months before buying insurance again. If I want to buy something available on the market and the government says I can't for an arbitrary period of time, how is that free market or better than ocare? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pass free market reforms(whatever that might be, it doesn't matter). Get the government out of our damn healthcare. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:42:58 AM EDT
[#31]
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No it's not. It's part of my compensation package. In other words, I earned it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No able-bodied adult's insurance should be subsidized, and I don't care how many that puts in the 'uninsured' category. I've always paid for my own, and never had too much trouble doing it until I started having to pay for everybody else's too. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:50:03 AM EDT
[#32]
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Wrong. Tax code provides a subsidy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No able-bodied adult's insurance should be subsidized, and I don't care how many that puts in the 'uninsured' category. I've always paid for my own, and never had too much trouble doing it until I started having to pay for everybody else's too. They should do away with that too. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:58:03 AM EDT
[#33]
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Point taken. They should do away with that too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No able-bodied adult's insurance should be subsidized, and I don't care how many that puts in the 'uninsured' category. I've always paid for my own, and never had too much trouble doing it until I started having to pay for everybody else's too. They should do away with that too.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 12:09:38 PM EDT
[#34]
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heard it from Bernie Sanders and Chuck Schumer so I know it's true Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The DNC is claiming that tens of thousands will die under the GOP plan. Most of the dead and dying would probably be FSA and Dems, so... |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 12:49:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A large number of people with "insurance" right now have a deductible that's so high they might as well not have insurance. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 12:50:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said it was, a $10-20k deductible should be fine for young healthy adults. An HSA in conjunction would be a good idea as well. You get cancer or have a major accident? You aren't automatically bankrupt. ETA: my parents raised 8 kids with no fucking insurance, and no we never used Medicaid. We payed cash for stiches and casts, and payed off our larger debts for long hospital stays, even if it was painful financially. retarded argument there. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 12:52:12 PM EDT
[#37]
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ok, how about having a kid? How about ACL surgery? retarded argument there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I never said it was, a $10-20k deductible should be fine for young healthy adults. An HSA in conjunction would be a good idea as well. You get cancer or have a major accident? You aren't automatically bankrupt. ETA: my parents raised 8 kids with no fucking insurance, and no we never used Medicaid. We payed cash for stiches and casts, and payed off our larger debts for long hospital stays, even if it was painful financially. retarded argument there. retarded argument indeed |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 12:54:24 PM EDT
[#38]
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Why should I pay for your kid or torn ACL? retarded argument indeed
If I pay for insurance premiums every month, why would I not expect to get help from my insurance when I run into a 20k + hospital bill? Your argument makes sense if I was on medicaid. blows my mind that hard working americans, like myself, have zero incentive to have children right now, meanwhile, poor / minority families are pretty much getting paid to crank fucking kids out. Creates an evolving and never ending welfare burden on the working. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 12:55:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fucking healthcare isn't a god-damn right. Shove that bill up their asses like they did to us. That's the fundamental difference between the old rights and new "rights". |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:03:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They added a provision to the new bill that says if you are uninsured for longer than 63 days you have to wait 6 months before buying insurance again. If I want to buy something available on the market and the government says I can't for an arbitrary period of time, how is that free market or better than ocare? Free market reforms are laws that do not coerce or prohibit people into/from buying insurance plans or choosing hospitals or doctors they deem to be fit for their ailment. Edit: The reason why they added that provision to the law, to my knowledge, is because of the pre existing condition clause. Get rid of pre existing conditions and you can drop that added provision as well. It is a way to keep people from gaming the system. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:03:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistorySenate health care bill would lower deficit, increase number of uninsured, estimate says |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:08:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why have insurance then?
If I pay for insurance premiums every month, why would I not expect to get help from my insurance when I run into a 20k + hospital bill? Your argument makes sense if I was on medicaid. blows my mind that hard working americans, like myself, have zero incentive to have children right now, meanwhile, poor / minority families are pretty much getting paid to crank fucking kids out. Creates an evolving and never ending welfare burden on the working. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why should I pay for your kid or torn ACL? retarded argument indeed
If I pay for insurance premiums every month, why would I not expect to get help from my insurance when I run into a 20k + hospital bill? Your argument makes sense if I was on medicaid. blows my mind that hard working americans, like myself, have zero incentive to have children right now, meanwhile, poor / minority families are pretty much getting paid to crank fucking kids out. Creates an evolving and never ending welfare burden on the working. Get an HSA Me paying for your baby is no different than you paying for some minority families kids Both are wrong if .fed mandated |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:09:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why have insurance then?
If I pay for insurance premiums every month, why would I not expect to get help from my insurance when I run into a 20k + hospital bill? Your argument makes sense if I was on medicaid. blows my mind that hard working americans, like myself, have zero incentive to have children right now, meanwhile, poor / minority families are pretty much getting paid to crank fucking kids out. Creates an evolving and never ending welfare burden on the working. Should an ACL tear be covered under insurance? Well, I would argue no since it isn't life threatening and it can be done through same day/outpatient surgery centers. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:14:01 PM EDT
[#44]
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The segment of a population that depends on other peoples money ( outside of Family ) will be the death of a nation, that segment continues to grow along with the size of the government it expects to support them, it is simply not sustainable, never was sustainable. That's true. More than half of the current generation is being brought into the world on welfare. That is fucking terrifying. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:19:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Great, people who cant afford something will finally not be breaking the law or incurring fines if they don't have it.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:30:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Insurance these days is a bit of misnomer...it isn't actually insurance when it pays for every minor or major injury or illness. When you pay premiums and use insurance for every doctor visit, it becomes a pre payment plan instead of insurance. Should an ACL tear be covered under insurance? Well, I would argue no since it isn't life threatening and it can be done through same day/outpatient surgery centers. Last year, my wife had our first child and she was required to have a C-section. Up to that point in the past 10 years, I hadn't used a penny of my insurance. Totally healthy... we walked out of the hospital with around a 15k bill which hurt alot. Fast forward to this year, my deductible is 8k again, torn ACL... can't play sports / no hunting season / no hiking etc. Im totally out of pocket for it (10-12k). Where has my 10 years of premiums gone? It is a corrupt and un-just system and fucking pisses me off that Im paying for jobless slackers to literally have better insurance than my family and cannot get the help I need when the time arises. Adding a decent sized co-pay to medicaid might be a start to eliminate the abuse or just abolish medicaid all together and work to reduce deductibles for those that actually contribute to their healthcare costs. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:34:17 PM EDT
[#47]
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I overheard an argument yesterday... The person claimed that we needthe expansion of national healthcare because more than half of babies are born on medicaid. That's true. More than half of the current generation is being brought into the world on welfare. That is fucking terrifying. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The segment of a population that depends on other peoples money ( outside of Family ) will be the death of a nation, that segment continues to grow along with the size of the government it expects to support them, it is simply not sustainable, never was sustainable. That's true. More than half of the current generation is being brought into the world on welfare. That is fucking terrifying. There's no fixing this problem without millions of people dying in one way or another. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:34:40 PM EDT
[#48]
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I agree. You can't trust the CBO figures. There may have been a time in history that the CBO was impartial, that's no longer true. I would bet that "22 million uninsured" figure is including illegals and college aged adults. Illegals don't get insurance - that shit needs to stop now. College aged adults generally don't need insurance. Maybe colleges should provide health insurance to their students. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:38:32 PM EDT
[#49]
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http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/06/26/pelosi-gop-heath-care-bill-hundreds-thousands-people-will-die-bill-passes/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The DNC is claiming that tens of thousands will die under the GOP plan. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 1:41:42 PM EDT
[#50]
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According to the left there will be twice that many dead from it by then, so it's all good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CBO is talking 22,000,000 without insurance by 2026? 
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