The best writing I've seen on the Philando Castile shooting:

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-philando-castile-shooting-and-some-advice-for-my-cop-readers

and guaranteed to annoy everyone

In before Colion Noir.

"Sir I have a firearm"

My typical responses

"Cool me too.."
"What kind ?"
"Don't reach for yours and won't reach for mine"

And the more common

"Ok, license and insurance "

Good article. I dont beleive he had any harmfull intent. Nobody tells a cop they have a gun if they plan to use it on said cop. But, his actions were a little dumb, and the officer was way too on edge.

Ever since I have been driving, whenever I get pulled over my hands stay 10-2 and before reaching for my wallet I say, Ok, Im going to get my wallet.

The answer is usually "Yeah yeah, go ahead".

And it seems the officer usually appreciates this or acts like there is no need, which Im cool with either way.

Only got my truck tossed once and that was in Jersey.

You can get tossed for anything  in Jersey.

Smile and wave

That is you and I commend you for that attitude. But it isn't the same one I have encountered at check stations, as a passenger in traffic stops, being ticketed myself, or being questioned by an officer when I give them notice.
Whether you were trained in Ada or a big department academy must make a difference. I know of OCPD officers disarming a person on his own doorstep just because they were asking questions. No arrest was made and the neighbor disarmed was not a suspect, just a possible witness. He gave then notice when he answered the door.
You and I both know that is against state law. But it happened anyway.
I have seen too many OK officers' alert level jump at the mention of a gun. Hands to the holster, flipping retention device off, just an inch from going into attack mode.
Frankly that scares the shit out of me.
Yeah, there is a problem and I don't want to see cops killed.
Nor do I want to see innocent, legally carrying citizen shot by a dumb ass with a gun and badge,
There is a problem and it is going to be continued to be denied by those in LE.

In AZ:  

Cop: Sir, do you have any firearms in the vehicle?  Response:  No.  Cop:  Why not?  



That article is steaming bullsht.  Many, many stops for minor violations have resulted in felony arrests and have taken some real bad actors off the streets.    

Utter bullshit.


ETA: Article was stupid. Cops shouldn't do anything, that way mistakes won't be made. Derp.

Even if you don't give them permission they will lie about having probable cause.  You MUST call them out on their bullshit or you will be a victim every time.

+1

What the author refers to as, "chasing minor scofflaws." is also called police work.  To suggest that police should just ignore warrants, or ignore vehicle equipment or traffic infractions, is to suggest that traffic cops should do nothing at all.

The problem is the training. Police come out of training with a us against them mentality. After a couple of years on the job most out grow that and become human beings again

I'm not a cop but from what I saw, the cop handled the situation the best that he could at the time.

Agreed. Thus why Yanez is unfit for a career in law enforcement. Too bad a fella had to die for it.

And a tax paying citizen, I see it is the lowest form of laziness.

How many cases does your burglary division close? That's police work, but it's too hard to actually take prints, track down burglars, and recover stolen goods.

QFT.

This is a great article, thanks for posting it.   His points about hassling poor people are on the money in my opinion.   I'd like to think people are questioning the police a little more, but personally in my upper middle class area I don't see it.

Traffic stops/terry stops are one of the primary way, to use your example, burglary suspects are identified. Burglars drive around in cars, and if the officers are paying attention, frequently are transporting stolen goods in those cars.

People with warrants for burglary also ride around in cars.

What you refer to as "laziness" is one of the most effective means of interdicting all manner of criminal activity.

Police go where the crime is, which is typically lower income areas.

This.

Bullshit!  Every CHL/LTC/CCP class I've attended teaches you not to reach around when you have been stopped by L.E., it's stated more than once that you wait for the Officer's instructions, and follow any given commands. To not reach for I.D. unless you are instructed to do so. This may not be taught in every state, but it should be.

Have you forgot that this formerly living POS was driving high, with his kid in the car. Sorry, I feel for him as much as I do for Otto Warmbier. Not a fucking thing, play stupid games, get ghosted.

Sure would be nice if that's how things actually work. But they don't.

For example, of the dozen or so bank robberies I prosecuted, usable prints were found in ONE case. Me, the detective, and the defense attorney were all shocked. Because prints are usually not usable for a variety of reasons.

And what good does recovering stolen goods do? Tells me, maybe, who sold the goods. Maybe who pawned the goods. If the pawn shop took a good thumb print that we could use. Sometimes there are cameras. And maybe half the time the video from those cameras actually helps.

So let's say we catch the guy who pawned the stolen goods. How do I prove he knew the goods were stolen? A huge chunk of prosecutions for Dealing in Stolen Property (F2 here in FL) are rolls of the dice. Is the defendant going to admit it (they do a lot because they are dumb).

What if he invokes his right to remain silent? What if--as in the vast majority of cases--there is zero usable physical evidence at the burglary scene? Even if he admits he knew the items were stolen, how do you convict him of burglary if he then clams up (oddly enough, they usually do at this point--they have this notion that the F2 Dealing in Stolen Property is less bad than the F3 Burglary to a Structure from when they broke into the store to steal the DVD player)? You don't.

Police work has a heck of a lot of hunches and random chance built into it. Patrolmen who have been on patrol on a certain side of town for five or ten years known when something just isn't right. If they can find PC to do a traffic stop, they will. The vast majority of the time they find nothing at all. Sometimes they find a guy with an AK a bunch of reloads heading to his ex-GF's house to kill her (that happened a few years back here in town). In your world, the good police work wouldn't be allowed to start until after the murder, right?

I have seen a lot of truly bad people go away for a long time due to the "lowest form of laziness." I have seen lives saved due to that laziness.

ETA: My division chief once told me the biggest problem in today's world is that juries think real life is like CSI. "They think there is semen covering every crime scene." It was always interesting watching juries go from having that belief during voir dire to actually seeing the world for what it is by the time they returned their verdict.

As I read that article, I couldn't help but think "damn, I could've written this!"

I was the same way as the author. Gung ho, pulling everything I could looking for warrants, chasing down drivers when they rolled through a stop sign, that sort of stuff.

That was 23 years ago. I'm a lot more mature and have a shit ton more experience.


A few years ago Knoxville was having a spate of bank robberies. For a while it seemed like every other day. Meanwhile there are the motorcycle cops, sitting on 40, waiting to pull somebody over in heavy traffic for doing 10 over. How do you think that went over with the general public? KPD got raked over the coals about it. But hey, revenue.

Related, I've never understood how a police officer decides to pull someone over for speeding "because its a public safety issue" and end up creating a mile long backup with people trying to move over and rubbernecking.

Derp.

Nationwide the average is 17%......but they can write the fuck out of tail light tickets and they win ALL those at trial don't they? And they wonder why people hold them in low regard?

Meh, we were ordered not to write equipment violations.

I guess whoever was doing the ordering in that case bought the "derp" as some posters might suggest.....

Look, it really pisses people off being hassled for penny ante shit- especially when they have the impression that REAL CRIME is going unpunished..... Even people who aren't directly affected feel this way. That's the long and short of it. If people think the underlying stop was a chickenshit stop- you damn well better find a case of Ak's and a ton of Coke or they are going to look at you as an asshole. I'm sorry, that's the way it is.

Ignorant, you are.  Who do you think is riding around with the stolen property in their trunk?  The guy with the suspended license, duh.  We solve more burglary cases by recovering stolen property than with do with AFIS hits.  Everybody knows to use gloves or socks, now, and the smarter ones are using latex gloves to avoid DNA.

I have no duty to inform.

Look officer in eyes as I maintain 10-2.  

Notify officer dumbshit who pulled me over for no reason as I don't speed, tags are up to date ect... that I'm reaching in console for my wallet/liscense ect.  registration and insurance is in glovebox.

hand officer dumbshit my license, and CCW card.

brace myself to be shot, repeatedly.

How is he full of shit? You think cops should be people who are easily excited and prone to over reaction or that they don't deserve decent training that many civilians acquire themselves despite the fact that the officers EVERY DAY JOB puts them in a position of being more likely to need such training?

I'd be kind of excitable too if someone said they had a gun and kept reaching into an area any reasonable person would think there was gun. If after being told numerous times to stop reaching and they kept reaching any reasonable person would shoot.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't because they wanted to do the public any favors.

Ohh good....we get to have this conversation again for the 6th time this week.....

Castile was compliant, but when you get such a jumpy cop, you really need to be extra careful.  Still no reason for him to have half a mag dumped into him.  However, some outed themselves here as willing to kill over pettiness.  American LE very much has real problem......themselves.  I hate that LEOs get thrown under the bus often for actual justified shoots, but the revealing JBTs let know there are A LOT of cops that should not have badges and a purging of these reckless bullies is needed.

Wait for the officers instructions???...bolderdash, I say. I read it right here on AR15.com, that heck, as long as you don't intend any harm, you can do a mag change sitting in your car during a traffic stop, and the cop cant do a darn thing about.

Beside, again, according to the same critics, there's a rule that's always followed, and its if you tell a cop you have a gun, you can not therefor after use said gun on that cop!

Another insight.. that cop is lazy and was a scared...it matters not one bit that he was proactive and following up on a lead to an armed robbery, and that he worked at an agency that he could just as likely get by with rattling some doorknobs, saying hello to a few business owners and writing a parking ticket, still make a days pay, and go up the promotional ladder.

"STOP HASSLING PEOPLE!  
...
Don’t hunt minor scofflaws."

But they are the easiest.  

I once had ONE unpaid parking ticket in Grosse Pointe, simply for parking in the street in front of my friend's house beyond the hours that it was allowed (just pointing out here that it was a very minor ticket).  Nothing prior, ever.  I lost the ticket - it was $15, I figured I'd get something in the mail and have to pay $40 or $50.  No, instead, they put out a warrant for my arrest, called and visited my place of work stating there was a warrant out for me but wouldn't say it was for a parking ticket, called and visited my apartment, banging on all adjacent doors, called my landlord, telling everyone there was a warrant out for me.  The then called my mother at the house I grew up in as a child and hadn't lived in for 20 years, telling her there was a warrant out for me.  At the time, I was camping.  When I finally got cell service and the flood of voicemails from the police and everyone that they had contacted I freaked out!  I called the Grosse Pointe police dept, assuming something was in error and the lady told me "nope, this is for your ticket".  I was floored.  I told her I was up north and would pay it immediately when I got back to SE Mich and she replied "Well I hope nobody runs your plates on the way, you have an open warrant."  Fucking insane.  The amount of time and effort they put into coming after me for a single, unpaid $15 parking ticket is mind boggling.

I don't know...he sounds like he's reached Ninja Master at his department.

In all fairness to this guy, I attended training where cops are supposed to square off with the guy before they draw and fire...oh, wait, my bad that was the season finale of Justified!

eye roll.

Burglaries get solved through traffic stops. Burglars use cars to get around. Sometimes they even have stolen goods in their cars.

I love when he says hunting criminals. They should put that on the patrol cars.

Protecting Serving and Hunting Criminals

A guy selling training advocating more training. 




As to his traffic stop philosophy, somebody remind me how Timothy McVeigh got caught. 

Its STUPID to say "gun", "weapon, "firearm" or anything like it to a cop on a traffic stop.  Academy training scenarios I participated in usually triggered when one of the participants yelled "GUN". Its a reptile brain issue.

Here's how you endure a traffic stop while armed.  Night stop is assumed.  

Pull over and signal that you are going to do so if you cant pull over right away.   Car in park, engine off, dome light on, windows down, hands STAY on the wheel at 10 and 2 (windshield screams too much wrong side of arrest experience).  I dont move until the cop says he wants me to get or do something.  Before I take my hands off the wheel, I tell them that my license is in my back left pocket, and I make them affirmativelty tell my it is OK to reach for it.  When I get my DL out, I hand them my CCW, and I tell them "You need to read both of these".  If he wants insurance info, its in the visor and I tell him where it is.  I make him tell me he wants me to reach for the items.  

If you put the other guy's hat on, and acknowledge that its hairy walking up to a strange car at night to give them a ticket, its easy to make them feel comfortable enough to not be on edge.

Y'all need to learn how to disagree without calling names (I know, I know....this is GD).

The author stated an opinion that was, in essence, minor traffic violation stops while occasionally productive are more often than not more trouble than they are worth to the routine patrol cop who will have to contend with an increasingly high wave of negative public opinion, among other problems, should something go wrong during the stop. 

That's a fair point, based in part his policing experience.  I didn't read him as saying to never make a pretext stop, but rather to think hard about whether it was worth it under the circumstances. 

You would be amazed at what crimes are often discovered, solved, or prevented during routine traffic stops...everything from burglary to homicides.

Of course it is my responsibility.  And their out of proportion response was a complete waste of time and manpower.  

See, it can be two things.