Why the F-22 Raptor Is Such a Badass Plane - Stealth, Speed, and Air Superiority

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why the F-22 Raptor Is Such a Badass Plane - Stealth, Speed, and Air Superiority (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:13:42 AM EDT

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a21232/why-the-f-22-raptor-is-such-a-badass-plane/?src=socialflowFB

On an otherwise unremarkable day in March 2013, an American MQ-1 Predator drone was flying in international airspace off Iran, conducting a routine surveillance flight over the Persian Gulf.
But the U.S. Air Force knew trouble might be lurking ahead.

Several months earlier, a pair of Iranian Sukhoi Su-25 attack planes had attempted unsuccessfully to shoot down another patrolling Predator.
After that, the Pentagon decided subsequent drone patrols would be escorted, either by F/A-18 Hornets from the USS John C. Stennis aircraft carrier or F-22s deployed to nearby Al Dhafra Air Base in the United Arab Emirates.
On this day, Lt. Col. Kevin "Showtime" Sutterfield was the escort, heading toward the drone in case of trouble.

"Showtime" was in a Raptor.

At the annual conference of the Air Force Association later that year, USAF Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh would tell the crowd what happened next:
As the Predator flew its pre-planned route, two Iranian F-4 Phantoms approached and acquired the drone on their radars.
One of the Phantoms got to within 16 miles of the MQ-1.
On another heading, Col. Sutterfield closed in on the F-4.

"Showtime is an Air Force Reservist … he flies the F-22.
He flies it really well," Welsh said.
"He flew under their [Phantom] to check out their weapons load without them knowing that he was there.
And then he pulled up on their left wing and then called them and said, 'You really ought to go home.'"

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:21:14 AM EDT

[#1]

I was in Vegas 2016 and got to see F-22's flying around. LOVED IT.
They are the sh*t and we need many ore of them!

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:21:23 AM EDT

[#2]

"He flew under their [Phantom] to check out their weapons load without them knowing that he was there.
And then he pulled up on their left wing and then called them and said, 'You really ought to go home.'"

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Posted: 5/28/2017 1:22:22 AM EDT

[#3]

I love stories like that

Murica

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:24:38 AM EDT

[#4]

It's a badass plane

Love hearing those stories too!

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:26:31 AM EDT

[#5]

After that, the Pentagon decided subsequent drone patrols would be escorted, either by F/A-18 Hornets or F-22s

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So now we have manned fighters flying interference for unmanned drones? Seems like a great plan.

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:37:15 AM EDT

[#6]

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So now we have manned fighters flying interference for unmanned drones? Seems like a great plan.

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After that, the Pentagon decided subsequent drone patrols would be escorted, either by F/A-18 Hornets or F-22s

So now we have manned fighters flying interference for unmanned drones? Seems like a great plan.

Fighter escorts - entirely new concept.

Posted: 5/28/2017 2:43:12 AM EDT

[#7]

Lol. Raptors showing up to escort RPAs?

Posted: 5/28/2017 3:02:52 AM EDT

[#8]

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Lol. Raptors showing up to escort RPAs?

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Can't waste that Academy education!

Posted: 5/28/2017 3:05:06 AM EDT

[#9]

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Lol. Raptors showing up to escort RPAs?

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Of there's a need over airspace with known hostile activity? Why not?

I bet the crew of the EP-3 that was forced to land in China would have liked such an escort.

Posted: 5/28/2017 3:07:06 AM EDT

[#10]

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Of there's a need over airspace with known hostile activity? Why not?

I bet the crew of the EP-3 that was forced to land in China would have liked such an escort.

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Quoted:
Lol. Raptors showing up to escort RPAs?

Of there's a need over airspace with known hostile activity? Why not?

I bet the crew of the EP-3 that was forced to land in China would have liked such an escort.

EP-3 =/= an RPA.

Beaides, I don't think an escort would have stopped an idiot child Chinese pilot from being a dickhead.

Posted: 5/28/2017 3:25:09 AM EDT

[#11]

Was he inverted?

Posted: 5/28/2017 3:36:45 AM EDT

[#12]

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EP-3 =/= an RPA.

Beaides, I don't think an escort would have stopped an idiot child Chinese pilot from being a dickhead.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Lol. Raptors showing up to escort RPAs?

Of there's a need over airspace with known hostile activity? Why not?

I bet the crew of the EP-3 that was forced to land in China would have liked such an escort.

EP-3 =/= an RPA.

Beaides, I don't think an escort would have stopped an idiot child Chinese pilot from being a dickhead.

Distinction without a difference. We're more and more depending on RPVs with elaborate sensor packages to do this kind of work, it makes sense to protect them where the threat assessment says they may be at risk, and where the political calculation causes it to make sense.

Flexibility.

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:48:31 AM EDT

[#13]

The Raptor is an awesome plane, but the price tag is huge. Perhaps Trump and get the price down, otherwise why not build a drone that can take care of itself. For crying out loud, F4's those things are antiques!!

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:01:44 AM EDT

[#14]

Honestly impressed that they had F4s that are still flying.
I wonder how their F-14s are fairing.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:06:41 AM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:

Of there's a need over airspace with known hostile activity? Why not?

I bet the crew of the EP-3 that was forced to land in China would have liked such an escort.

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MQ-1s don't come close to having the same tech or capabilities as a P-3. And at like $2M a copy, I doubt the pentagon wants to risk going to war with Iran over a remote control plane being phased out of the inventory anyway.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:10:58 AM EDT

[#16]

I remember reading about that incident. The Iranians were shocked to see the F22 pop up from "nowhere."

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:11:18 AM EDT

[#17]

I was at Langley AFB the first time they rolled in.
What a machine

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:11:40 AM EDT

[#18]

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Honestly impressed that they had F4s that are still flying.
I wonder how their F-14s are fairing.

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The Iranians are crafty bastards.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:14:59 AM EDT

[#19]

The kind of "fuck off" only we can deliver.
Have a safe Memorial Day.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:15:02 AM EDT

[#20]

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I remember reading about that incident. The Iranians were shocked to see the F22 pop up from "nowhere."

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I'm sure the incident had everything to do with demonstrating F22 capabilities, and almost nothing to do with protecting an MQ-1.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:15:25 AM EDT

[#21]

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Was he inverted?

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Damn you beat me to it!

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:17:48 AM EDT

[#22]

What a fucking waste,

using the greatest fighter in the world to protect rpa's against shit bag f-4s

why not, oh you mean i get a bronze star for that??

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:19:11 AM EDT

[#23]

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"He flew under their [Phantom] to check out their weapons load without them knowing that he was there.
And then he pulled up on their left wing and then called them and said, 'You really ought to go home.'"

That's hilarious.

On a serious note, think they used the F-22 for that exact outcome. Essentially a show of force to shove in their face the difference between our two countries air power. Makes a nice message... "piss off or you won't even see it coming"

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:20:30 AM EDT

[#24]

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I'm sure the incident had everything to do with demonstrating F22 capabilities, and almost nothing to do with protecting an MQ-1.

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And enforcing freedom of navigation in international airspace.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:25:37 AM EDT

[#25]

We stopped flying the F-4 Phantom off of Navy ships in 1984 ... and Iran is still using them.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:28:30 AM EDT

[#26]

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We stopped flying the F-4 Phantom off of Navy ships in 1984 ... and Iran is still using them.

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And F-5s and F-14s.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:32:52 AM EDT

[#27]

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I was at Langley AFB the first time they rolled in.
What a machine

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They are sexy machines no doubt. Getting an unrestricted climb for one after a visit then watching it climb out is one of my favorite days at work

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:35:34 AM EDT

[#28]

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So now we have manned fighters flying interference for unmanned drones? Seems like a great plan.

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Technique is known as "baiting" and works really good when hunting varmints .

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:36:23 AM EDT

[#29]

Why can't the Raptor do the recon since he's there anyway? The F4's would have never seen him.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:40:18 AM EDT

[#30]

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Why can't the Raptor do the recon since he's there anyway? The F4's would have never seen him.

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It's not about the recon, it's about sending a message

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:44:23 AM EDT

[#31]

Trouble is, America has 186 Raptors, only 123 of which are combat-capable.

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Is this an issue of vehicle readiness, lack of pilots, vehicle configuration, aircraft reserved for training, or what?

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:46:24 AM EDT

[#32]

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Is this an issue of vehicle readiness, lack of pilots, vehicle configuration, aircraft reserved for training, or what?

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shitty contract

the first 22s off the line could not be upgraded, like later models. They were never meant for combat

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:47:58 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
Technique is known as "baiting" and works really good when hunting varmints .

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nope- hunting is when you plan to kill something, they are just fucking around

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:51:30 AM EDT

[#34]

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I was in Vegas 2016 and got to see F-22's flying around. LOVED IT.
They are the sh*t and we need many ore of them!

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I saw one do a flight demo at an airshow. The things that jet can do makes me believe we really did acquire alien tech at Area 51.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:55:39 AM EDT

[#35]

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I saw one do a flight demo at an airshow. The things that jet can do makes me believe we really did acquire alien tech at Area 51.

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F-22 is early '90s technology. Damn near 30 years old.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:08:12 AM EDT

[#36]

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shitty contract

the first 22s off the line could not be upgraded, like later models. They were never meant for combat

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Quoted:
Is this an issue of vehicle readiness, lack of pilots, vehicle configuration, aircraft reserved for training, or what?

shitty contract

the first 22s off the line could not be upgraded, like later models. They were never meant for combat

If you are talking about SN 1-3, yes. Anything above SN 4, however, could be upgraded if desired.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:14:49 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

So now we have manned fighters flying interference for unmanned drones? Seems like a great plan.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

After that, the Pentagon decided subsequent drone patrols would be escorted, either by F/A-18 Hornets or F-22s

So now we have manned fighters flying interference for unmanned drones? Seems like a great plan.

There was reason to believe that they would try to intercept the drone on this mission. Thus, the F-22's were in the area.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:16:23 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

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nope- hunting is when you plan to kill something, they are just fucking around

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Technique is known as "baiting" and works really good when hunting varmints .

nope- hunting is when you plan to kill something, they are just fucking around

Correct. A better term would be "strategic communications".

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:31:36 AM EDT

[#39]

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Why can't the Raptor do the recon since he's there anyway? The F4's would have never seen him.

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Because then you don't get to scare the shit out of some F-4 pilots, and shake their confidence.

That was the point of this.

Posted: 5/28/2017 10:56:29 AM EDT

[#40]

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Fighter escorts - entirely new concept.

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For unmanned aircraft? I think so.

Realistically, it does sound as though the drone was used as bait.

I suppose the drone only needs an escort until it get's to a certain area where it can do it's mission on it's own and might only need escort on it's way back. Otherwise, why use it?

Posted: 5/28/2017 11:10:36 AM EDT

[#41]

Is it reasonable or idiotic for me to suggest/ask if a Raptor successor is already in the works?

I've heard everyone but Obama thinks we needed more, but it's going to cost a ton to restart F22 production.

So why not just dump that money into Gen 6?

Is the F/A-XX or equivalent still on paper or do we maybe have some test jets?

Posted: 5/28/2017 11:25:12 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
EP-3 =/= an RPA.

Beaides, I don't think an escort would have stopped an idiot child Chinese pilot from being a dickhead.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Lol. Raptors showing up to escort RPAs?

Of there's a need over airspace with known hostile activity? Why not?

I bet the crew of the EP-3 that was forced to land in China would have liked such an escort.

EP-3 =/= an RPA.

Beaides, I don't think an escort would have stopped an idiot child Chinese pilot from being a dickhead.

Sure it woukd have. The problem is one of asset management though. MPRA are out flying these kinds of surveillance flights all the time. Are you going to,escort all of them? If that's the case, you'll have to also protect the tanker that will be necessary for the fighters to be there. So, 1 x 6 hour P-8A mission now is also a 2 x 6 hour F-22 and 1 x 6 hour KC-XX mission.

If you're going to do that, you might as well just use a B-1 to do the job since it can get itself out of trouble if necessary.

Posted: 5/28/2017 11:27:03 AM EDT

[#43]

Intercepting an F4 while not being observed.

Sounds hard to do

NOT

Posted: 5/28/2017 11:39:19 AM EDT

[#44]

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F-22 is early '90s technology. Damn near 30 years old.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I saw one do a flight demo at an airshow. The things that jet can do makes me believe we really did acquire alien tech at Area 51.

F-22 is early '90s technology. Damn near 30 years old.

And what is it's combat record if any?

Posted: 5/28/2017 12:31:45 PM EDT

[#45]

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For unmanned aircraft? I think so.

Realistically, it does sound as though the drone was used as bait.

I suppose the drone only needs an escort until it get's to a certain area where it can do it's mission on it's own and might only need escort on it's way back. Otherwise, why use it?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Fighter escorts - entirely new concept.

For unmanned aircraft? I think so.

Realistically, it does sound as though the drone was used as bait.

I suppose the drone only needs an escort until it get's to a certain area where it can do it's mission on it's own and might only need escort on it's way back. Otherwise, why use it?

1) pretty sure a dedicated surveillance platform can do a better recon than an air supremacy fighter.
2) random measures are great other side never knows if and when they'll be in place. You don't need Air Marshalls on every flight or an F-22 escorting every RPV to deter hostile behavior. You just have to demonstrate that you do, on occasion, have such measures in place.

Posted: 5/28/2017 12:39:27 PM EDT

[#46]

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And what is it's combat record if any?

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To my knowledge, just testing and exercises.

I've never read of an F22 scoring an air to air kill except in training. (Where apparently they're limited to number of kills by ordinance)

They've dropped bombs but I don't think there's been any air to air combat.

Posted: 5/28/2017 12:43:58 PM EDT

[#47]

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The Raptor is an awesome plane, but the price tag is huge. Perhaps Trump and get the price down, otherwise why not build a drone that can take care of itself. For crying out loud, F4's those things are antiques!!

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Maybe, but not compared to the F-35.

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:41:44 PM EDT

[#48]

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Maybe, but not compared to the F-35.

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Quoted:
The Raptor is an awesome plane, but the price tag is huge. Perhaps Trump and get the price down, otherwise why not build a drone that can take care of itself. For crying out loud, F4's those things are antiques!!

Maybe, but not compared to the F-35.

You're right, they're significantly more expensive.

Posted: 5/28/2017 2:09:22 PM EDT

[#49]

Since this thread is awesome I'd thought I'd dig up a photo from an Edwards AFB air show circa 2006.

Posted: 5/28/2017 2:21:30 PM EDT

[#50]

The addition of AIM-9X will make the F-22 very difficult to defeat at short range (though the continued lack of a helmet-mounted sight limits the weapon's full potential).

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What is JHMCS for $1000, Alex.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why the F-22 Raptor Is Such a Badass Plane - Stealth, Speed, and Air Superiority (Page 1 of 2)

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