FL cop who killed woman during citizen police academy loses appeal to get his job back - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FL cop who killed woman during citizen police academy loses appeal to get his job back

Posted: 5/26/2017 6:45:33 AM EDT

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A Punta Gorda police officer fired after he shot and killed a woman during a citizen's academy will not get his job back.

The city manager on Thursday denied Lee Coel's appeal, saying his firing was justified.

Coel shot and killed 73-year-old Mary Knowlton in August when she was participating in a "shoot, don't shoot" scenario. He thought his gun was loaded with blanks when he fired, striking the librarian.

Coel is also awaiting trial on a manslaughter charge.

The city fired him for the incident in March. NBC2 obtained transcripts and audio from Coel's appeal hearing.

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https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1897465_Florida___Cops_shoots_and_kills_woman_during_gun_demonstration_at_police_headquarters

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1968712_-FL-cop-and-Chief-charged-in-death-of-woman-during-community-police-academy-shooting

Posted: 5/26/2017 6:56:48 AM EDT

[#1]

That's scary.

I guess there should have been tighter controls on weapons and ammo to ensure no live rounds were present.

Posted: 5/26/2017 6:59:15 AM EDT

[#2]

Sounds like a good firing to me.

Posted: 5/26/2017 7:02:35 AM EDT

[#3]

What a terrible incident.

Leo's on scene need to absolutely control the distribution of sim rounds and real rounds. There needs to be a clean room where every person is checked multiple times to make sure there's no live weapons.

Very sad.

also, there's no coming back from that. Bold move on the fired guys part by appealing.

Posted: 5/26/2017 8:09:05 AM EDT

[#4]

Being fucking retarded and killing someone at work sounds like a good firing anywhere. However, I'm sure he'll be acquitted and still get his job back.

Posted: 5/26/2017 8:14:51 AM EDT

[#5]

I'm ok with this.

Posted: 5/26/2017 8:18:12 AM EDT

[#6]

The fact that he thought he could get his job back shows something is very wrong with some in the law enforcement community.

Posted: 5/26/2017 8:20:36 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
The fact that he thought he could get his job back shows something is very wrong with some in the law enforcement community.

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Was going to post exactly this.

Posted: 5/26/2017 8:34:04 AM EDT

[#8]

Last I heard they had indicted the Chief of that Department for failure to train and supervise. Everyone is taking a bite of that big ole shit sandwich...

Posted: 5/26/2017 8:54:57 AM EDT

[#9]

The problem today, is that people have no shame.

Screw up that bad, you need to take a high dive off a parking garage, or move away and never show your face again.

It's disgusting that he would sue to get his old job back.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:02:06 AM EDT

[#10]

Guy was a hot head, was not very liked.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:04:18 AM EDT

[#11]

Wasn't me either, still have my job.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:06:49 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
The fact that he thought he could get his job back shows something is very wrong with some in the law enforcement community.

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Fantastic job at putting down an entire profession.

Good job.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:08:29 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's scary.

I guess there should have been tighter controls on weapons and ammo to ensure no live rounds were present.

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Like checking to make sure there are blanks in your weapon before firing it at someone? This is all on him and nothing or nobody else

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:10:58 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Last I heard they had indicted the Chief of that Department for failure to train and supervise. Everyone is taking a bite of that big ole shit sandwich...

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They should eat the whole thing . They own that sandwich 100% . In most places shooting the students in any class is frowned upon on.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:11:03 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Last I heard they had indicted the Chief of that Department for failure to train and supervise. Everyone is taking a bite of that big ole shit sandwich...

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Never heard of a "failure to train and supervise" criminal code.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:12:29 AM EDT

[#16]

Would the outcome have been different if she had not been a librarian?

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:12:52 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
The fact that he thought he could get his job back shows something is very wrong with some in the law enforcement community.

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Imagine if he got into a shooting in the future. What a shit show that would be in the press and courts.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:16:23 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

Fantastic job at putting down an entire profession.

Good job.

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His actions do reflect on the entire profession, though. What he did was idiotic, and having the balls to want his job back afterwards is fully retarded.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:18:30 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Fantastic job at putting down an entire profession.

Good job.

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Having spent a decent amount of time around the law enforcement community, I will say that he is not wrong... there is a strong since of entitlement in quite a few members of the community, which isn't surprising, they are after all, government employees.

Dude should have done everyone a favor and ate a bullet, that's one hell of a fuck up to make. Also, why the fuck aren't they using sim guns?

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:20:29 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Never heard of a "failure to train and supervise" criminal code.

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Chief was apparently charged with "culpable negligence"- stemming I would guess from his failure to train and supervise his officer. That would be the argument I would make, if the Chief had properly supervised and made sure the officer was trained, it wouldn't have happened. I think it's a good thing. Many in Law Enforcement Administration are very resistant to getting their officers adequate firearms training. Whether it's a matter of time/money or the idea that guns are icky and troublesome to deal with I dunno but they need to make it a priority.

I don't want a Goddamn social worker when I call 911. IF I call a cop, it's because there is a problem I can't deal with myself and that's likely a serious Hands On Melee or Gun Problem. If I simply need to file some insurance paperwork on a theft of something, fine, send me a Clipboard Cop, but if I dial 911, I want a Gunfighter to show up.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:33:21 AM EDT

[#21]

"All guns are always loaded...something something...". Why the hell were they doing this exercise with real guns rather than trainers? It's citzen's academy not hostage rescue team.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:33:39 AM EDT

[#22]

oops

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:40:50 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
Being fucking retarded and killing someone at work sounds like a good firing anywhere. However, I'm sure he'll be acquitted and still get his job back.

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Well...I mean, it WAS an accident.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:42:29 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's scary.

I guess there should have been tighter controls on weapons and ammo to ensure no live rounds were present.

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You check...control checks.....instead actors check....never use duty weapons have separate weapons

Have a sanitation point prior to training.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:49:31 AM EDT

[#25]

I don't understand how you even go home after doing something that stupid. I'm not saying the guy should off himself, but he should posses enough introspection to realize that he should, at the very minimum, never work in law enforcement again at any level. I have a conscience, perhaps he doesn't.

Posted: 5/26/2017 9:51:55 AM EDT

[#26]

Wow, what a piece of shit. No way no how does that guy belong anywhere nearhaving any type of law enforcement job. I wouldn't want him to me a mall security guard. WTF was this guy thinking.
He needs to take a long walk off of a short pier.

Posted: 5/26/2017 10:10:59 AM EDT

[#27]

Isn't this he same guy who had his K-9 maul a guy for not getting off his bicycle and walking back to him as commanded?

Posted: 5/26/2017 10:33:28 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Chief was apparently charged with "culpable negligence"- stemming I would guess from his failure to train and supervise his officer. That would be the argument I would make, if the Chief had properly supervised and made sure the officer was trained, it wouldn't have happened. I think it's a good thing. Many in Law Enforcement Administration are very resistant to getting their officers adequate firearms training. Whether it's a matter of time/money or the idea that guns are icky and troublesome to deal with I dunno but they need to make it a priority.

I don't want a Goddamn social worker when I call 911. IF I call a cop, it's because there is a problem I can't deal with myself and that's likely a serious Hands On Melee or Gun Problem. If I simply need to file some insurance paperwork on a theft of something, fine, send me a Clipboard Cop, but if I dial 911, I want a Gunfighter to show up.

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Can't find the old thread about this incident, but IIRC Culpable Negligence was one of the potential charges that I was saying may be sought. It is a minor charge (misdemeanor 1st or 2nd Degree), but it allows for people who commit culpable negligence and through their actions exposes a person to injury or inflicts injury to a person to be charged. I am actually surprised that who ever the other officers were that were actually participating in the demo did not get charged.

Posted: 5/26/2017 10:48:31 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

Fantastic job at putting down an entire profession.

Good job.

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If you read my post thuroughly you will see the qualifier "some" which by definition does not include "all". There is an entitlement problem and an enabler problem with many agencies.

Posted: 5/26/2017 10:59:36 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

Never heard of a "failure to train and supervise" criminal code.

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No, but you could probably work that up into a plausible Msltr or Accessory charge.

Posted: 5/26/2017 11:09:35 AM EDT

[#31]

Kill less people. Get fired less often. It's not a hard concept, well except for this guy.

Posted: 5/26/2017 11:10:19 AM EDT

[#32]

I can't see how he even thought he could get his job back. I would have been more worried about going to jail. He was in possession of his weapon and should have looked into it further prior to any training exercise. I don't know why departments don't have a simunition gun for situations like a public exercise.

Posted: 5/26/2017 11:18:33 AM EDT

[#33]

If they'd fired him for the dog incident the old lady would still be alive.

Posted: 5/26/2017 11:30:00 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
If they'd fired him for the dog incident the old lady would still be alive.

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This is the common theme with almost all of the shit-shows. They cover for and protect bad officers until they kill or maim. Its not only an entitlement problem there is an enabler problem with many agencies.

Posted: 5/26/2017 12:41:36 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
Never heard of a "failure to train and supervise" criminal code.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Last I heard they had indicted the Chief of that Department for failure to train and supervise. Everyone is taking a bite of that big ole shit sandwich...

Never heard of a "failure to train and supervise" criminal code.

Chief was charged with culpable negligence.

Posted: 5/26/2017 1:06:09 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:

You check...control checks.....instead actors check....never use duty weapons have separate weapons

Have a sanitation point prior to training.

View Quote

Been the safety officer for training several times. We always have a clean room after everyone gets frisked. No knives, keys, phones, anything. It all goes into the amnesty box.Anybody who leaves gets frisked again when they come back.

I'm shocked this FL department was using unmodified guns in training. Just asking for an accident. The 1990's called...

Posted: 5/26/2017 5:23:48 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

Been the safety officer for training several times. We always have a clean room after everyone gets frisked. No knives, keys, phones, anything. It all goes into the amnesty box.Anybody who leaves gets frisked again when they come back.

I'm shocked this FL department was using unmodified guns in training. Just asking for an accident. The 1990's called...

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We have used a M-16A1 in active shooter training. Of course it was blanks with a military issue blank adapter. Wasn't used in simulating shooting at officers, but was used by the training staff only to generate the sounds of gun fire for the responders to try to isolate where the shots were coming from. Simunitions give off an even weaker sound than blanks do. Schools and large buildings with a lot of hallways can be difficult to isolate where shots are coming from.

Posted: 5/26/2017 10:56:36 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Fantastic job at putting down an entire profession.

Good job.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
The fact that he thought he could get his job back shows something is very wrong with some in the law enforcement community.

Fantastic job at putting down an entire profession.

Good job.

You haven't been paying attention Fish. ChadJL isn't the one putting down the profession.

The Circle the Wagons mentality is to blame. You are your own worst enemy.

Posted: 5/26/2017 11:08:57 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The fact that he thought he could get his job back shows something is very wrong with some in the law enforcement community.

View Quote

Fantastic job at putting down an entire profession.
Good job.

View Quote

You haven't been paying attention Fish. ChadJL isn't the one putting down the profession.
The Circle the Wagons mentality is to blame. You are your own worst enemy.

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First off Chad said "some" and second almost every LEO I can think of on Arfcom in the original thread said the cop in question was a retard. It even went so far that some cops on Arfcom even agreed with @SmilingBandit.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FL cop who killed woman during citizen police academy loses appeal to get his job back

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