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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:28:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Ummm the highlander has always been a crossover and are very similar in size to the 4Runner now.
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:29:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that's precisely why most of the old body on frame SUVs are history and crossovers and pickups rule the auto industry. Nobody wants a vehicle that rides like a Conestoga wagon and sucks fuel at under 20 MPG when you're pretty much never going to leave pavement or tow anything. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:30:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that's precisely why most of the old body on frame SUVs are history and crossovers and pickups rule the auto industry. Nobody wants a vehicle that rides like a Conestoga wagon and sucks fuel at under 20 MPG when you're pretty much never going to leave pavement or tow anything. I got the tow package on the Explorer, but only because it was just a little more money. I don't actually have plans to use it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:31:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4Runner is the only way to go. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:34:37 PM EDT
[#5]
I hate crossovers
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:35:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara that was sort of the last of these smaller, true SUV's....great little truck. Absolute beast in the snow and had decent hauling capabilities and a good AWD system. They were really affordable, too. Mine was under $20k, new. http://www.rocky-road.com/media/peru_gv.JPG Then, Suzuki pulls out of the US...so I'm in the same boat, looking at too-expensive, too big options or fucking cars that sit up high. Fuck the car market, I fucking hate what it's become. Screw it. I'll just drive it until it becomes too much of a PITA to keep. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:38:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara that was sort of the last of these smaller, true SUV's....great little truck. Absolute beast in the snow and had decent hauling capabilities and a good AWD system. They were really affordable, too. Mine was under $20k, new. http://www.rocky-road.com/media/peru_gv.JPG Then, Suzuki pulls out of the US...so I'm in the same boat, looking at too-expensive, too big options or fucking cars that sit up high. Fuck the car market, I fucking hate what it's become. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:38:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
F3PNI I'm in my second 4Runner. 2000 & 2008. This one is almost paid off. Can't really think of anything else I'd like except full size, maybe. I have noticed that the highlander does seem to be getting bigger, just like every other Toyota product. I'd like to have one of the old small pick-ups but they aren't made/imported anymore. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:40:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cmon OP....the pathfinder screams rugged off road durability https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/134638/IMG-0495-216589.JPG What the fuck. 
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:42:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just had to go to the website because didn't believe it. What the fuck. https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/nissan/vehicles/suvs/pathfinder/2017/colors-photos/exterior/2017-nissan-pathfinder-roof-rails.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/THUMBNAIL.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cmon OP....the pathfinder screams rugged off road durability https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/134638/IMG-0495-216589.JPG What the fuck. https://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/nissan/vehicles/suvs/pathfinder/2017/colors-photos/exterior/2017-nissan-pathfinder-roof-rails.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/THUMBNAIL.jpg |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:43:15 PM EDT
[#11]
CAFE bullshit and gov regulations did it. They have to sell weenie cars now to meet the fleet fuel economy standards.
http://www.businessfleet.com/news/story/2017/01/carbon-pollution-standards-remain-unchanged-through-2025.aspx |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:43:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tahoe/Yukon |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:47:13 PM EDT
[#13]
It is 27 years old:
But it is mine (and paid for). 
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:47:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As long as you aren't tall. I'm 6'3" and my head is right at the ceiling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
4Runner is the only way to go. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:49:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I'm not mistaken, the 4runner and Tacoma got an updated engine a year or so ago. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:50:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CAFE bullshit and gov regulations did it. They have to sell weenie cars now to meet the fleet fuel economy standards. http://www.businessfleet.com/news/story/2017/01/carbon-pollution-standards-remain-unchanged-through-2025.aspx The free market is why crossovers are thriving and BOF SUVs are mostly gone. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:53:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Definitely some like souls here.
In realistic pricing, I think the Wrangler and 4Runner are pretty much your options for a true body on SUV. Other real ones like the XTerra and FJ Cruiser have gone away or like the Pathfinder have been downgraded and keep the name. There are a few unibody SUVs with true low 4WD available like the Grand Cherokee. And some other unibody SUVs that have pretty sophisticated AWD systems like the MDX. But the fuk ton of Car-UVs is disgusting. And I am sick of the styling. Decent stuff like rear doors and rear mounted spares get replaced by hatch backs. Thanks soccer moms and teenage girls. Slightly boxy, rugged looks get gayified into the crap you have now. LR4s get replaced by discovery sports. Crv s and rav4s loose their spares and doors. Vehicles with good potential like the Toyota Prado get brought here as a Lexus with some retarted front end grille nobody likes. It happens elsewhere to. Look what a Nissan patrol used to look like compared to now. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:53:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You DO understand that you just articulated exactly why the market is going all crossover, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah. It's more truck than I need. Family is shrinking and I don't need the passenger or cargo room that it provides. But I might have to go there. because everything else is apparently turning into a FUCKING CROSSOVER. SHIT. When I was younger, and I needed a big truck to haul around a wife and 4 kids when we went on road trips, I bought a truck that could do that. The Suburban was that truck. Yukon/Tahoe size wouldn't have cut it. All the seating, with less cargo room, and not much price difference. Had to be the Suburban. And as the kids got older, and the truck got older, I replaced it with another Suburban. And so it went. Then, kids started moving out. And my Suburban got traded in for something smaller. But it still had to look like a truck. The Pathfinder was that truck. It looks like a truck. It drives like a truck. And if you think the looks of a vehicle doesn't figure into why someone buys a vehicle, well, you're just plain foolish. 
Now, I will drive my wife's RAV4 when we take it on trips. But I don't enjoy. Why? Because there is not a single fucking spot on the damned door too rest your left elbow while you're steering. And the there's the fact that it's a DAMNED CROSSOVER. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:55:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just bought this. It isn't a crossover, but it isn't a brodozer either. They tried to talk us into an Edge. 
[url]http://build.ford.com/dig/Ford/Explorer/2017/HD-FULL/Image[|Ford|Explorer|2017|1|1.|202A.K8D..N1..88B.64C.LEA.99H.AWD.XLT.89W.]/EXT/1/vehicle.png[/url] |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:58:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definitely some like souls here. In realistic pricing, I think the Wrangler and 4Runner are pretty much your options for a true body on SUV. Other real ones like the XTerra and FJ Cruiser have gone away or like the Pathfinder have been downgraded and keep the name. There are a few unibody SUVs with true low 4WD available like the Grand Cherokee. And some other unibody SUVs that have pretty sophisticated AWD systems like the MDX. But the fuk ton of Car-UVs is disgusting. And I am sick of the styling. Decent stuff like rear doors and rear mounted spares get replaced by hatch backs. Thanks soccer moms and teenage girls. Slightly boxy, rugged looks get gayified into the crap you have now. LR4s get replaced by discovery sports. Crv s and rav4s loose their spares and doors. Vehicles with good potential like the Toyota Prado get brought here as a Lexus with some retarted front end grille nobody likes. It happens elsewhere to. Look what a Nissan patrol used to look like compared to now. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 10:58:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, that's a crossover. Hate to break it to you buddy... Front wheel drive, sideways engine, fugly bulbous design... Checks all the boxes. 
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:00:07 PM EDT
[#22]
As gas economy standards tighten up it's only going to get worse
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:00:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, that's a crossover. Hate to break it to you buddy... Front wheel drive, sideways engine, fugly bulbous design... Checks all the boxes. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:00:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. I thought the 4Runner engine was over 10 years old. Not that it's a bad engine, probably more reliable than anything I looked at. I like my twin turbo though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. I thought the 4Runner engine was over 10 years old. Not that it's a bad engine, probably more reliable than anything I looked at. I like my twin turbo though. As expected, fuel economy figures are improved compared to last year's numbers. V6 models reach up to 19 miles per gallon in the city and 24 mpg on the highway, a big increase over last year's top figures of 17 mpg city/21 mpg hwy. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:01:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the looks and it's 4WD. What's the low range reduction like in that thing? |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:02:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nobody wants a vehicle that rides like a Conestoga wagon and sucks fuel at under 20 MPG when you're pretty much never going to leave pavement or tow anything. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:03:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disagree on the design. I think the Explorer is one of the best-looking SUVs out right now. As much as I love the 4Runner's function and reliability...the front end looks downright weird. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:03:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definitely some like souls here. In realistic pricing, I think the Wrangler and 4Runner are pretty much your options for a true body on SUV. Other real ones like the XTerra and FJ Cruiser have gone away or like the Pathfinder have been downgraded and keep the name.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:03:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A crossover is an SUV built on a unibody car platform. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:06:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is a XJ Cherokee a crossover? It is unibody. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A crossover is an SUV built on a unibody car platform. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:08:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I'm not mistaken, the 4runner and Tacoma got an updated engine a year or so ago. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just picked up a 17 Sport. I prefer body-on-frame but these are perfect for two kids and my work gear. Pretty damn quick too... ETA: These are crossovers. If the 4Runner had an updated engine, it would've been a tougher choice. ETA: The engine in the current 4R is unique to the 5th gen (2010+). While the Taco and FJ also had the 1GR, the 4R's is dual vvt-i, as opposed to the regular vvt-i of the FJ and Taco. This is why a direct s/c swap between the three platforms was not possible, to my knowledge. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:10:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...As much as I love the 4Runner's function and reliability...the front end looks downright weird. 
And 5.1 gen (2014-2017) facelift is for shuttling kids to the math tutor and hot yoga at noon: 
Luckily, you can convert it back. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:12:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have a freakishly long torso then. I'm 6'4" and have a couple inches of headroom in my 2017 Runner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
4Runner is the only way to go. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:13:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Taco did, 4Runner still has the 1GR. There is an elusive third party supercharger for the 4R (courtesy of Underdog Racing), but it may never hit the street. TRD scrapped the s/c for the 4R after too many failed 100-hour stress tests. Kept deforming bearings or something.. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:18:31 PM EDT
[#35]
I'll be going the Jeep Cherokee route soon.
Most people driving mini vans seem to really just suck at driving. THink they get a van so they feel they have an excuse to drive the way they do. But SUV's are common now just so the people that need minivans don't have to drive mini vans. Hence all these 4 cylinder mini SUVs. That, and Asians getting more into the 'SUV' offerings. They clearly don't get the point of an SUV, especially with their competition to try to put the smallest engine in them. What's the point if you can't tow anything at all? Or can't sleep comfortably in the back with the seat folded down? Or haul on the roof? |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:19:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Id rather have the 1GR. I had one, it'll crawl. The new guy has to see higher RPM to make power. But hell, my project has a rebuilt 3.0 in it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:22:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryGreat job proving the OP's point.
2017 Land Cruiser What you asked for (and available in Australia mate): 
What you got: 
fuckin horseshit |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:27:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryAnd that would be a fantastic option as a 40k, realistically priced Toyota Prado.
But they brought it to the US as a I was going to buy my wife one, in 55k Lexus trim just a week or two ago. i could have convinced her a few years ago, but that new grille was a deal breaker. When we went to look. And the land cruiser was too big for what she wanted. She has drifted bigger to smaller. I have stayed about same sizes. She went Acura again. I have done 5th Gen US Hilux AWD, 4Runner, XTerra, Grand Cherokee. She has done Expedition, ExPedition, MDX, RDX. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:36:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Some of it is that they are neither mid-sized, nor trucks anymore.
Giant, overstuffed, bloated bags of safety equipment and creature comforts designed to take little Johnny and his 87 lbs of helicopter parent accoutrements back and forth to no-score soccer practice. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:37:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the people who DO want something to leave the pavement with have fewer and fewer options Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nobody wants a vehicle that rides like a Conestoga wagon and sucks fuel at under 20 MPG when you're pretty much never going to leave pavement or tow anything. Of all the people who want to go off-roading and are willing to put their money where their mouths are to do it, how many... 1) Choose to do so in a brand new vehicle And... 2) Don't want a pickup truck. And... 3) Want to do something that can't be done in a Subaru. Suddenly, we're looking at a very niche market. Vehicles like the Subaru Forester are actually pretty capable vehicles. If I as a guy of average financial means wanted to go somewhere that a Forester (or the F-150 I actually drive) can't safely go, I'm not going to buy a $35k+ 4x4 SUV to do it. I'd drive some beater Craigslist project vehicle, a SxS, a quad, or a pair of boots and a ruck. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:38:49 PM EDT
[#41]
I was a Ford man, but I switched to the 4Runner mafia for that exact reason.
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:39:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As long as you aren't tall. I'm 6'3" and my head is right at the ceiling. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:42:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The new one being that Atkins-cycle junk they put in the new Taco? |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:42:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How you feel about looks doesn't keep it from being a crossover. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:46:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great job proving the OP's point. 2017 Land Cruiser What you asked for (and available in Australia mate): http://www.northpointtoyota.com.au/-/toyota/lib/Images/images_1600/ToyotaLC70Tray.jpg What you got: http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/1437/7e8fbc7108e840f89fee3782d59c5a78.jpg fuckin horseshit  Attached FileShould have kept this but once your over 300k probably better to offfload. The new GX is fine though - I keep shit in good shape a long time.  Attached FileBut yea running these when I spend time in the Eastern Cape, I dig. They have their uses - just not for what most Americans need. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:51:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great job proving the OP's point. 2017 Land Cruiser What you asked for (and available in Australia mate): http://www.northpointtoyota.com.au/-/toyota/lib/Images/images_1600/ToyotaLC70Tray.jpg What you got: http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/1437/7e8fbc7108e840f89fee3782d59c5a78.jpg fuckin horseshit  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:52:48 PM EDT
[#47]
4Runner owner here. I really like it, I went with a limited since it has a much better grill and some other niceties I wanted.
Previous was an an 03 Pilot. It was a crossover but a decent enough one. Had a lot of room, drove well, and did ok in the snow. Not great off road but handled but I got by with it. Very reliable, kept it for 13 years and sold it to my Dad. He drove it cross country and back and it did fine, not bad for a 13 year old crossover. I too liked the older style Pathfinder. My neighbor bought one of the new ones and many that is a fugly piece of crap. Also, the new Pilots look like they got squished in the same easter egg mold as the new Pathfinder. Someong needs to bring the International Scout back. My 74 Scout II was my first SUV love and I still miss it all the time. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 11:57:37 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 5/26/2017 12:00:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure, didn't say it did. I don't have any fixation on whether a vehicle is or isn't a "crossover". I'm a function over form guy. I'd get the 4Runner with its Japanese-robot grill if I were still venturing into remote places. Given that I drive a lot for work now, I enjoy the turbos more. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 12:01:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does that prove the OP's point? The LC 200 is no more a crossover than the 70. It's just styled differently. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/450793/20170519-4517-216713.JPG Add in the GX, some Rovers, theres more choices. Better choices in most cases, but admittedly fewer than before. |
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