Dash cam of Michigan Cop Shattering Car Window After Driver Refused To Give ID - Page 4

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dash cam of Michigan Cop Shattering Car Window After Driver Refused To Give ID (Page 4 of 12)

Posted: 5/25/2017 1:56:32 PM EDT

[#1]

This is not how I conduct myself when pulled over.

With that said, if he committed no crime, he's under obligation to provide ID right? So shouldn't they have to explain why they pulled him over before he's forced to give ID?

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:01:46 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
Properly applied violence has a long and confirmed history of solving problems. Has our society improved or degenerated since deescalating and transformative social justice became the words of the day? Have we become more or less like a third world country?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nope. It's scary when folks accept that the officer could probably have deescalated the situation so that physical violence wasn't needed but who cares because he doesn't have to.

One would think that given the risk of injury to one's self alone that officers would avoid force if it's practical, but I guess that doesn't get you disability retirements.

Properly applied violence has a long and confirmed history of solving problems. Has our society improved or degenerated since deescalating and transformative social justice became the words of the day? Have we become more or less like a third world country?

By what metric are you calling us like a third world country? Our generally decreasing murder rates? Our expanding gun rights (with the exception of a few notable communist shit holes, don't you work in one of them?)?

And if you think we really are becoming a third world country you think that it's because we, especially our government agents, don't use extrajudicial violence enough?

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:02:53 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Drivers License, Registration, Proof of Insurance.... It isn't really that hard of a concept to understand.
Has anyone ever won an argument with a cop on the side of the road?

View Quote

Yes, I can actually say that I have. I came to a t-intersection in a housing area with a yield sign. As I approached the intersection, I slowed, saw it was clear and made a right turn. I saw the cop sitting down the street and wondered why he took off after me. He makes the stop and immediately lets me know that he is stopping me for running the stop sign back at the intersection. I told him that the sign was a yield and not a stop. He looked back, tossed me my documents and took off. Granted this was a base cop, but I still say it counts!

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:09:04 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
"Oh ok so you stopped me for going through a stop sign? Well thank you for telling me officer, here's my ID and I will now comply with you for the rest of the stop."

Hahahah no.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Of course not, but since the cop is the one who made the choice to initiate a situation (the traffic stop) where there otherwise would not have been a situation, the least he can do is tell the person why they were pulled over. Why insist on "winning the moment", as it were? Tell the guy why he was pulled over, then at that point he's exhausted his one reasonable demand.

"Oh ok so you stopped me for going through a stop sign? Well thank you for telling me officer, here's my ID and I will now comply with you for the rest of the stop."

Hahahah no.

Well then why even ask twice? Just bust the window right away.

COMPLY!

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:17:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:

No. Go watch a few more videos on the internets. Reasonable suspicion is the correct legal threshold for a traffic stop, not probable cause.

View Quote

I understand the difference. I mentioned probable cause because it is in the Constitution. Reasonable suspicion was created from probably cause so an officer does not have to get a warrant to enforce the law. It does require that an officer be experienced so an officer with 15 years of experience would make a better judgement of an event rather than a rookie right out of the academy.

An experienced officer would not let someone get under his skin just because the driver wants to know why he was stopped.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:24:31 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Maybe you should read the 4th amendment. That is the foundation to protect citizens from unreasonable searches and seizures. I dont have to pick up your can because you tell me to. I dont have to ID myself until you have told me what law I have violated.

If you stop me for a traffic stop, I have a right to know what I did before I ID myself. If I do not comply after you tell me my offense, THEN you have the right to arrest me and take to before a magistrate or lock me in the jail. I am not contesting the reason for the stop. I just want to know what was your reason for the stop. You do know about FREEDOM dont you?

View Quote

Good luck with that 4th amendment argument in court.

After you get hooked and booked.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:31:40 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Ran a stop sign. Driver needlessly escalated the situation.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why was he stopped.

Ran a stop sign. Driver needlessly escalated the situation.

So did the cop. If it's so easy to hand over an ID, isn't it just as easy to say "You ran a stop sign, now show me your license"?

The cop just wanted to fight and be a dick. Look at how they treated the woman. What did she do wrong? She has to put her phone down because why?

It's amazing that any of these cops are able to hold steady relationships.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:33:03 PM EDT

[#8]

Cops like this are why I just laugh when they have to deal with the BLM nonsense. It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:37:07 PM EDT

[#9]

Anytime I have ever been pulled over, the officer usually begins with, "Hey, sir. How's it going? Do you know why I pulled you over? You were speeding/weaving/going too slow/whatever..."

I've never had them demand my ID without telling me why I'm being stopped first. Ever.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:37:29 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Drivers License, Registration, Proof of Insurance.... It isn't really that hard of a concept to understand.
Has anyone ever won an argument with a cop on the side of the road?

View Quote

Sort of.

Got pulled over one night on the interstate, had my cruise at 72 (70 speed limit). Trooper said he clocked me doing 83. I was like, uh, no, you didn't. Takes my license and registration back to his car, comes back and repeats again that he clocked me doing 83. I said, "I'm not calling you a liar so maybe you gunned someone else, I have no idea, but there's no fucking way in hell you gunned me at 83. I've had my cruise set for the past 45 miles at the same exact speed. I'm in no hurry to get where I'm going so no, you did not clock me going 83 mph. So, yeah." He was like, "well, just make sure we're going the speed limit, have a good night."

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:38:04 PM EDT

[#11]

Guy was obviously in the wrong, but the Taylor cops are some of the biggest jerks on the planet.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:42:28 PM EDT

[#12]

LOL. To serve and protect....

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:47:20 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

"Oh ok so you stopped me for going through a stop sign? Well thank you for telling me officer, here's my ID and I will now comply with you for the rest of the stop."

Hahahah no.

View Quote

Yep, and when the video comes out afterward, NO ONE gets to wonder why the cop couldn't just tell the guy the reason for the stop. NO ONE has any reason to question the cops' actions after the reason for the stop was given. The citizen would then be expected to "hold up his end of the deal", as it were, by handing over his ID and POI. That's all I'm saying-- giving the reason for the stop only makes the cops look better when these sorts of videos hit the news.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:55:36 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
I understand the difference. I mentioned probable cause because it is in the Constitution. Reasonable suspicion was created from probably cause so an officer does not have to get a warrant to enforce the law. It does require that an officer be experienced so an officer with 15 years of experience would make a better judgement of an event rather than a rookie right out of the academy.

An experienced officer would not let someone get under his skin just because the driver wants to know why he was stopped.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

No. Go watch a few more videos on the internets. Reasonable suspicion is the correct legal threshold for a traffic stop, not probable cause.

I understand the difference. I mentioned probable cause because it is in the Constitution. Reasonable suspicion was created from probably cause so an officer does not have to get a warrant to enforce the law. It does require that an officer be experienced so an officer with 15 years of experience would make a better judgement of an event rather than a rookie right out of the academy.

An experienced officer would not let someone get under his skin just because the driver wants to know why he was stopped.

LOL this was even better than your previous post.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:59:32 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't know why the fuck people do this. I got stopped the other day was polite provided all requested information. the office came back we had a nice discussion about NOT speeding and be let me go with a verbal warning and release. no Dags were shot no windows broken. I was pleasantly surprised

View Quote

The reason people do this is to get paid. They also do it because they have a certain attitude towards the police and want to exercise their "values". If you look at the picture of the wife when she was in cuffs and close to the camera you can see that her shirt says something about melanin making people uncomfortable, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if she and the family jumped in the car and intentionally committed minor traffic infractions in front of police in order to precipitate a traffic stop so they could escalate it and see if they could get a cop to snap and use force so they could get paid/internet famous. Your time is probably valuable, so it makes sense for you to be cooperative and go about your day. Their time is probably not valuable, which is why they do stuff like this.

Posted: 5/25/2017 2:59:43 PM EDT

[#16]

Cop: Are you a lawyer?
Driver: Well, right now I'm representing myself.

<after an awkward silence>
Driver: So...am I free to go?

That part of the interaction was funny as hell. That's about all I've got to say about that little comedy of errors.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:04:57 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cop: Are you a lawyer?
Driver: Well, right now I'm representing myself.

<after an awkward silence>
Driver: So...am I free to go?

That part of the interaction was funny as hell. That's about all I've got to say about that little comedy of errors.

View Quote

I don't know why the officer answered that question but refused to answer the reason for the stop.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:10:08 PM EDT

[#18]

A think a thorough investigation was already done. It's all on video. Good smash.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:11:06 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is

window licking.

Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____".

And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap.

View Quote

Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:11:45 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

By what metric are you calling us like a third world country? Our generally decreasing murder rates? Our expanding gun rights (with the exception of a few notable communist shit holes, don't you work in one of them?)?

And if you think we really are becoming a third world country you think that it's because we, especially our government agents, don't use extrajudicial violence enough?

View Quote

Our generally decreasing murder rate is primarily due to hospitals and emergency medical care making leaps and bounds. Not to mention oh-so-maligned police officers beginning to carry things like tourniquests and quick clot and preventing gunshot wound recipients from bleeding out on scene before EMS arrives.

If you think street criminals haven't been emboldened to act however they please by the Obama administration, the BLM movement, and the focus on deescalation and social justice, your head is stuck in the sand, or you live in farm country far from any public transit hub.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:12:08 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

Get the law changed to " the officer shall state the offense BEFORE asking for ID" if you think it is going to make one bit of difference in a traffic stop/change the outcome. WTF? Think you are going to argue and win at the side of the road? Until then , follow the law or get treated like this dude did.

In the couple of times I have been stopped in 43 years of driving, it has always been " license and registration" and then " do you know why I stopped you " then " because you were speeding" or " you have a burned out tail light."

I was able to contain my desire to know why I was stopped for the 30 seconds it took for the officer to get to it.

View Quote

If I were a police officer, I'd rather get the ID & papers up front before you give them something else to focus on. I'd imagine that people produce documents a lot faster when they aren't actively trying to talk their way out of a ticket.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:12:33 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is

window licking.

Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____".

And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap.

Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

Indeed the outcome isn't known, but the course of action he was on was rather evident what was going to happen when he continued it.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:13:11 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

Maybe you should read the 4th amendment. That is the foundation to protect citizens from unreasonable searches and seizures. I dont have to pick up your can because you tell me to. I dont have to ID myself until you have told me what law I have violated.

If you stop me for a traffic stop, I have a right to know what I did before I ID myself. If I do not comply after you tell me my offense, THEN you have the right to arrest me and take to before a magistrate or lock me in the jail. I am not contesting the reason for the stop. I just want to know what was your reason for the stop. You do know about FREEDOM dont you?

Look at your response....STFU....that is the typical "contempt of public" that gets cops in trouble. You are probably just like the cop in that video. All he had to do was say I stopped you because you failed to stop at a stop sign, or what ever the problem is. Instead the cop see "contempt of cop, I'll show this asshole." Look at your next response...."when the cop shows you the fucking ticket." Sounds like you have some anger because you even admit "it might be rude and it might be out of a department professionalism policy". You like being rude? You like working outside of your depts policy?

Each state has its own laws, but the foundation is the Constitution.I know the law and I am a student of the Constitution and I am a retired officer. Sounds like you need to stop your "contempt of the public" and it will make your job a little easier.

Back to the video...The officer should have said I stopped you because you did not stop at a stop sign. I need your license. If he does not comply, he goes to jail. If he complies, he gets a ticket and drives away. But no! Contempt of cop got in the way...pick up that can citizen.

View Quote

You're right. I'm wrong. Next time you get pulled over/detained please refuse to comply until they explain things to your satisfaction.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:14:42 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Why did they take the woman?

View Quote

This is my question as well. Why are they arresting the passengers. What did they do other than ride with someone the cops arrested?

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:15:53 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
YOU have the right to know why an officer stopped you, driving, walking, biking, etc. You are not required to identify yourself unless you are being accused of a crime, including traffic offenses.

The video does not show any traffic violation. If there was a violation, the officer needs to tell the driver what his probably cause is, and then if the driver is not cooperative, the officer can drag his sorry ass out of the car. I would not show the officer my ID until I know the reason for the stop.

The officer should have said I saw you do this and that is the reason for the stop, I need to see you license. Instead he had a contempt of public face on, and he forced the event into a physical one. The driver asked several times what the stop was for.

Cop is going to suffer. Dept is going to suffer. Tax payer is going to suffer.

View Quote

Nope

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:16:21 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

Our generally decreasing murder rate is primarily due to hospitals and emergency medical care making leaps and bounds. Not to mention oh-so-maligned police officers beginning to carry things like tourniquests and quick clot and preventing gunshot wound recipients from bleeding out on scene before EMS arrives.

If you think street criminals haven't been emboldened to act however they please by the Obama administration, the BLM movement, and the focus on deescalation and social justice, your head is stuck in the sand, or you live in farm country far from any public transit hub.

View Quote

Have you actually been to a third world country?

And our criminals are emboldened by a legal system the quickly puts them back on the streets. Their actions have no consequences, even more so when professionals depolice.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:16:23 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't know why the officer answered that question but refused to answer the reason for the stop.

View Quote

I guess he wanted the dude to know that if he didn't whip his ID out right now, he was REALLY going to jail.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:18:44 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Their actions have no consequences, even more so when professionals depolice.

View Quote

The expectation displayed in this thread that the police are responsible for deescalating someone else's behavior and refusal to comply with a law is a prime example of actions having no consequences.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:19:06 PM EDT

[#29]

Reading some of these replies it is a wonder we don't have more threads like this. "So GD I just got my ass kicked by a cop." "Can you believe I got tased for going 15 mph over the limit." "I'm going to be buying hookers and blow after I sue the PD"

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:19:32 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Both are shitbirds but more the cop.

"Why are you pulling me over?"

"You ran a stop sign"

/scene

If there's a escalation beyond then, then fuck that driver. As is, fuck that cop. This is why people tend not to like the cops. This is an example of why black people don't like cops. It was a reasonable question. "Why am I being pulled over? Tell me why and I will give you my info". Now whether he would have or not is a new debate.

View Quote

Sometimes it doesn't matter what the officer says to the person getting pulled over. Some people just like to argue and make it harder for the LEO no matter what. There is no guarantee that if the officer had told the guy he got him running a stop sign that the guy would not have continued to argue or refuse to provide his ID or info.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:19:57 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

Nope. It's scary when folks accept that the officer could probably have deescalated the situation so that physical violence wasn't needed but who cares because he doesn't have to.

One would think that given the risk of injury to one's self alone that officers would avoid force if it's practical, but I guess that doesn't get you disability retirements.

View Quote

Sometimes it doesn't matter what the officer says to the person getting pulled over. Some people just like to argue and make it harder for the LEO no matter what. There is no guarantee that if the officer had told the guy he got him running a stop sign that the guy would not have continued to argue or refuse to provide his ID or info.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:22:06 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm sure that happens plenty.

And if that happened in this video you'd have the entire thread about fuck that driver getting what he deserved and the thread would probably have dead ended at about .75 pages.

Instead, the cop was an asshole, and most of the reasonable people around here know what an asshole looks like. Yes, the driver was an asshole too, but there's a non-zero chance that this whole thing would have turned around on "you ran a stop sign" and none of this shit would have happened.

I get it, a lot of you think any excuse to use force means it's a good idea. People don't agree with you, and that's why you can't understand the reactions of people calling the cop an asshole here. You think you're being logical saying "the law doesn't require me to do that", but nobody cares. And so you're probably thinking "ugh these idiots just don't get the law".

View Quote

You don't know that.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:25:35 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
The expectation displayed in this thread that the police are responsible for deescalating someone else's behavior and refusal to comply with a law is a prime example of actions having no consequences.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Their actions have no consequences, even more so when professionals depolice.

The expectation displayed in this thread that the police are responsible for deescalating someone else's behavior and refusal to comply with a law is a prime example of actions having no consequences.

Still not surprised at your position.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:26:13 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is

window licking.

Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____".

And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap.

Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

You're right. But the thing is it would have cost the cop nothing to tell him why he was being pulled over and then he would be completely beyond reproach for anything else that happened.

But apparently giving in and not being stubborn about it was too high a cost to pay to his ego and we ended up with an "assholes collide" instead of "asshole gets what he deserved when cop's patience runs out", which is what this would have been. And the court of public opinion goes grey instead of bleach white.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:26:51 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:

I dont have to ID myself until you have told me what law I have violated.

If you stop me for a traffic stop, I have a right to know what I did before I ID myself.

View Quote

Ummm...the officer doesn't have to tell you anything before you have to ID yourself when he requests your info on a legal traffic stop.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:27:25 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Our generally decreasing murder rate is primarily due to hospitals and emergency medical care making leaps and bounds. Not to mention oh-so-maligned police officers beginning to carry things like tourniquests and quick clot and preventing gunshot wound recipients from bleeding out on scene before EMS arrives.

If you think street criminals haven't been emboldened to act however they please by the Obama administration, the BLM movement, and the focus on deescalation and social justice, your head is stuck in the sand, or you live in farm country far from any public transit hub.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
By what metric are you calling us like a third world country? Our generally decreasing murder rates? Our expanding gun rights (with the exception of a few notable communist shit holes, don't you work in one of them?)?

And if you think we really are becoming a third world country you think that it's because we, especially our government agents, don't use extrajudicial violence enough?

Our generally decreasing murder rate is primarily due to hospitals and emergency medical care making leaps and bounds. Not to mention oh-so-maligned police officers beginning to carry things like tourniquests and quick clot and preventing gunshot wound recipients from bleeding out on scene before EMS arrives.

If you think street criminals haven't been emboldened to act however they please by the Obama administration, the BLM movement, and the focus on deescalation and social justice, your head is stuck in the sand, or you live in farm country far from any public transit hub.

lol

This is one of the most profoundly wrong things I've ever read on this site. Medical care has almost nothing to do with the violent crime rate in this country. Murders are down because people are trying to kill people less, not because their attempts have been frustrated by newly badass doctors.

If what you said were true, it would be shown in a sharp spike in "attempted murder" and "aggravated assault" numbers (spoiler: it's not).

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:28:35 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
There was an intriguing article in the Oklahoma Law Review regarding the 5th.

Based on the article, the 5th applies in court but not when you are asked to identify yourself. IOW, identification is mandatory.

View Quote

I believe that you must identify yourself, but you don't need to produce an ID card if you are a pedestrian. In a car, it's your license to operate a motor vehicle, so the document itself is necessary.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:28:44 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sometimes it doesn't matter what the officer says to the person getting pulled over. Some people just like to argue and make it harder for the LEO no matter what. There is no guarantee that if the officer had told the guy he got him running a stop sign that the guy would not have continued to argue or refuse to provide his ID or info.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nope. It's scary when folks accept that the officer could probably have deescalated the situation so that physical violence wasn't needed but who cares because he doesn't have to.

One would think that given the risk of injury to one's self alone that officers would avoid force if it's practical, but I guess that doesn't get you disability retirements.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what the officer says to the person getting pulled over. Some people just like to argue and make it harder for the LEO no matter what. There is no guarantee that if the officer had told the guy he got him running a stop sign that the guy would not have continued to argue or refuse to provide his ID or info.

The only guarantee was that not answering the simple question was going to result in the same outcome he was witnessing. The only reason to continue the path he was on was to get to use force, which seems to make sense since he waited for backup to ratchet it up when he could have answered the question while he waited for them to arrive.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:29:07 PM EDT

[#39]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Not going to read the article but I hope they beat the piss out of that guy.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:29:26 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yep, and when the video comes out afterward, NO ONE gets to wonder why the cop couldn't just tell the guy the reason for the stop. NO ONE has any reason to question the cops' actions after the reason for the stop was given. The citizen would then be expected to "hold up his end of the deal", as it were, by handing over his ID and POI. That's all I'm saying-- giving the reason for the stop only makes the cops look better when these sorts of videos hit the news.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

"Oh ok so you stopped me for going through a stop sign? Well thank you for telling me officer, here's my ID and I will now comply with you for the rest of the stop."

Hahahah no.

Yep, and when the video comes out afterward, NO ONE gets to wonder why the cop couldn't just tell the guy the reason for the stop. NO ONE has any reason to question the cops' actions after the reason for the stop was given. The citizen would then be expected to "hold up his end of the deal", as it were, by handing over his ID and POI. That's all I'm saying-- giving the reason for the stop only makes the cops look better when these sorts of videos hit the news.

Why should the cop have to say or do anything more than what he is legally required to when other civilians interacting with police don't have to say or do anything other than what they are required to do?

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:30:32 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Why should the cop have to say or do anything more than what he is legally required to when other civilians interacting with police don't have to say or do anything other than what they are required to do?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
"Oh ok so you stopped me for going through a stop sign? Well thank you for telling me officer, here's my ID and I will now comply with you for the rest of the stop."

Hahahah no.

Yep, and when the video comes out afterward, NO ONE gets to wonder why the cop couldn't just tell the guy the reason for the stop. NO ONE has any reason to question the cops' actions after the reason for the stop was given. The citizen would then be expected to "hold up his end of the deal", as it were, by handing over his ID and POI. That's all I'm saying-- giving the reason for the stop only makes the cops look better when these sorts of videos hit the news.

Why should the cop have to say or do anything more than what he is legally required to when other civilians interacting with police don't have to say or do anything other than what they are required to do?

Wow.

Why should the cop have to say or do anything more than what he is legally required to

Is your standard of what you expect from cops really that low?

Can I just go with a real simple one? How about: it's their jobs? One is a professional and the public has way higher expectations of them (well, except for some of the posters in this thread, like you, I guess) than of the everyday people they run into and are expecting to be policed.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:32:46 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Indeed the outcome isn't known, but the course of action he was on was rather evident what was going to happen when he continued it.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is

window licking.

Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____".

And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap.

Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

Indeed the outcome isn't known, but the course of action he was on was rather evident what was going to happen when he continued it.

How many traffic stops had the officer done in the past in that same exact routine? How many of those traffic stops ended the way this one did or in a similar fashion?

When I do a traffic stop I have a routine of what I say.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:32:46 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
You don't know that.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm sure that happens plenty.

And if that happened in this video you'd have the entire thread about fuck that driver getting what he deserved and the thread would probably have dead ended at about .75 pages.

Instead, the cop was an asshole, and most of the reasonable people around here know what an asshole looks like. Yes, the driver was an asshole too, but there's a non-zero chance that this whole thing would have turned around on "you ran a stop sign" and none of this shit would have happened.

I get it, a lot of you think any excuse to use force means it's a good idea. People don't agree with you, and that's why you can't understand the reactions of people calling the cop an asshole here. You think you're being logical saying "the law doesn't require me to do that", but nobody cares. And so you're probably thinking "ugh these idiots just don't get the law".

You don't know that.

Yeah and you don't know that he would have kept on escalating. I guess you think it's ok to body slam someone who's open carrying because you think he or she is probably going to do something illegal?

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:33:22 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
How many traffic stops had the officer done in the past in that same exact routine? How many of those traffic stops ended the way this one did or in a similar fashion?

When I do a traffic stop I have a routine of what I say.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is

window licking.

Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____".

And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap.

Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

Indeed the outcome isn't known, but the course of action he was on was rather evident what was going to happen when he continued it.

How many traffic stops had the officer done in the past in that same exact routine? How many of those traffic stops ended the way this one did or in a similar fashion?

When I do a traffic stop I have a routine of what I say.

Does it include saying why you pulled the person over?

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:33:45 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
The arrest itself was fine, but would it kill him to tell him why he pulled him over?

View Quote

Yeah I have no idea why so secret. I'd rather tell the guy than fight him.

Even though I know he'd want to argue the charge. Then I'd request his license again or at least get his name and DOB and run that fit fucks sake.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:36:35 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
You're right. But the thing is it would have cost the cop nothing to tell him why he was being pulled over and then he would be completely beyond reproach for anything else that happened.

But apparently giving in and not being stubborn about it was too high a cost to pay to his ego and we ended up with an "assholes collide" instead of "asshole gets what he deserved when cop's patience runs out", which is what this would have been. And the court of public opinion goes grey instead of bleach white.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is

window licking.

Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____".

And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap.

Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

You're right. But the thing is it would have cost the cop nothing to tell him why he was being pulled over and then he would be completely beyond reproach for anything else that happened.

But apparently giving in and not being stubborn about it was too high a cost to pay to his ego and we ended up with an "assholes collide" instead of "asshole gets what he deserved when cop's patience runs out", which is what this would have been. And the court of public opinion goes grey instead of bleach white.

The guy is legally required to provide ID. Thousands of people do it every day and don't end up like this scenario. Don't put this on the cop for the arrested guy's dumb decision.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:37:09 PM EDT

[#47]

Seems to me like the cop was on private property, hunting over bait

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:38:08 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
The guy is legally required to provide ID. Thousands of people do it every day and don't end up like this scenario. Don't put this on the cop for the arrested guy's dumb decision.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is

window licking.

Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____".

And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap.

Except for all those times where when you do tell people why they are being pulled over they still argue and refuse because they don't agree with why you pulled them over, or that they think you are wrong, or are sovereign nut jobs and still refuse to ID themselves even when lawfully required to.

Now could the officer have just told the guy sand seen what happens? Yes.

Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not.

You're right. But the thing is it would have cost the cop nothing to tell him why he was being pulled over and then he would be completely beyond reproach for anything else that happened.

But apparently giving in and not being stubborn about it was too high a cost to pay to his ego and we ended up with an "assholes collide" instead of "asshole gets what he deserved when cop's patience runs out", which is what this would have been. And the court of public opinion goes grey instead of bleach white.

The guy is legally required to provide ID. Thousands of people do it every day and don't end up like this scenario. Don't put this on the cop for the arrested guy's dumb decision.

That has nothing to do with anything I said. It would have cost the cop nothing to just say "you ran a stop sign" and it would have saved all of this second guessing and extremely shitty press that the department is getting. Unless he's just trying to create a situation where he gets to use force, why do that? It's unprofessional and unproductive.

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:38:09 PM EDT

[#49]

Going to say does not matter what you were stopped for that's what court is for.

When you refuse to provide ID that's when the shit show will start. If a cop let some one get away with "I don't have to show you my ID I did nothing wrong"
It will not end well

Posted: 5/25/2017 3:39:15 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
The only guarantee was that not answering the simple question was going to result in the same outcome he was witnessing. The only reason to continue the path he was on was to get to use force, which seems to make sense since he waited for backup to ratchet it up when he could have answered the question while he waited for them to arrive.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nope. It's scary when folks accept that the officer could probably have deescalated the situation so that physical violence wasn't needed but who cares because he doesn't have to.

One would think that given the risk of injury to one's self alone that officers would avoid force if it's practical, but I guess that doesn't get you disability retirements.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what the officer says to the person getting pulled over. Some people just like to argue and make it harder for the LEO no matter what. There is no guarantee that if the officer had told the guy he got him running a stop sign that the guy would not have continued to argue or refuse to provide his ID or info.

The only guarantee was that not answering the simple question was going to result in the same outcome he was witnessing. The only reason to continue the path he was on was to get to use force, which seems to make sense since he waited for backup to ratchet it up when he could have answered the question while he waited for them to arrive.

I disagree. The officer could have easily stood his ground, which he is allowed to do, and the guy who was pulled over could have realized that he wasn't getting out of the situation by refusing and could have given his info. However, that would require the pulled over guy to get his head out of his ass.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dash cam of Michigan Cop Shattering Car Window After Driver Refused To Give ID (Page 4 of 12)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us