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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:01:52 PM EDT
[#1]
I might've missed it but did the officer ask the driver to step out of the vehicle and he refused? I know he refused to produce id. But did he refuse to open the door and get out too?
If that never happened then it's the only hangup in what was otherwise a good arrest. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:02:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of that could have easily been avoided. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:04:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup, rol through a stop and then play "who is the bigger dickhead" with the cop, and this is what happens....... With that said, the cop was also out of line.... a simple "I observed you roll through a stop sign, and need your license to issue a citation" would have put him in the right, but he decides to go full cartman..... I hope that Sgt and Cpl got a tune up also, as they backed up a dick move, instead of deescalating & finding a peaceful solution. I aint got no time for assholes, but I got even less time for cops who abuse their authority..... It might be a huge headache for a pissant violation, but it is not an abuse of authority, and if everyone in this country refused to put up with fuck fuck games like that cop did our society wouldn't be so full of pussies who sit around thinking about how things could be 'deescalated.' |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:04:59 PM EDT
[#4]
My armchair quarterbacking is that cops cannot demand ID from people for shits and giggles, but if you are suspected of a crime, like running a stoplight, then they can demand it.
Also, and this probably makes me a police bootlicker, but I get some kind of satisfaction from watching idiots getting dragged out of their car and cuffed while screaming about self-inflicted police "brutality". Also, I kind of wish they tossed that obnoxious woman on the ground for being uncooperative. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:06:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
looks like one to the right, just as the video begins.... kia rolls through, and then stops/slows when he sees the popo.... stop signs in an apartment complex are still fair game are they not? (not being a smartass, i dunno) |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:07:58 PM EDT
[#6]
LOL
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:08:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not gonna lie, I usually side away from SJW but that was fucked up. I don't think it's going to end well for the department Hope he enjoys his new career as a security guard. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:08:32 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:08:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My armchair quarterbacking is that cops cannot demand ID from people for shits and giggles, but if you are suspected of a crime, like running a stoplight, then they can demand it. Operating a vehicle on public roads and failing to produce ID, reg, and insurance when detained for a traffic violation is either a separate crime from the violation, or in some state's the violation itself is technically a crime so if you fail to produce ID they will take you to jail to identify you and let you go before a judge. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:10:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed the officer could have de escalated this by just telling him why he was stopped. I would guess there was no valid reason. so officer friendly became not so friendly. I would probably aquit the defendant if I was on the jury as the officer went aggressive way too early in the stop. just fucking tell the guy when he still wont produce the documents cuff and stuff |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:11:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not an "abuse of authority" to lawfully require a traffic violator to produce their driver's license then not play fuck fuck games with them because they watched too many youtube sovereign citizen videos and mistakenly think they can put their own made up conditions on complying with the law. It might be a huge headache for a pissant violation, but it is not an abuse of authority, and if everyone in this country refused to put up with fuck fuck games like that cop did our society wouldn't be so full of pussies who sit around thinking about how things could be 'deescalated.' Ill add that I am not by any means "anti cop", they have a tough job and don't need crappy citizens to make it harder..... but the few that let their authority go to their head make the majority look like jerks, and that does no good for anyone. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:11:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was an intriguing article in the Oklahoma Law Review regarding the 5th. Based on the article, the 5th applies in court but not when you are asked to identify yourself. IOW, identification is mandatory. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:14:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is indeed an octagonal shaped sign in the intersection the Kia rolled thru. However, it is facing the direction of travel of cars coming up to the "T" at that intersection and not thru traffic.  My eyes aint so sharp anymore.....
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:15:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please, point to the section of ANY state's legal code that requires police to deescalate. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:18:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please, point to the section of ANY state's legal code that requires police to deescalate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
agreed the officer could have de escalated this by just telling him why he was stopped. I would guess there was no valid reason. so officer friendly became not so friendly. I would probably aquit the defendant if I was on the jury as the officer went aggressive way too early in the stop. just fucking tell the guy when he still wont produce the documents cuff and stuff Two adults refusing to answer each others questions is fucking childish, having a badge doesn't make it any better. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:20:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is indeed an octagonal shaped sign in the intersection the Kia rolled thru. However, it is facing the direction of travel of cars coming up to the "T" at that intersection and not thru traffic. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:21:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You never have to identify yourself to the police. It is your 5th amendment right to remain silent. Operating a vehicle on public roads and failing to produce ID, reg, and insurance when detained for a traffic violation is either a separate crime from the violation, or in some state's the violation itself is technically a crime so if you fail to produce ID they will take you to jail to identify you and let you go before a judge. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:22:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Everyone knows you don't go full retard.
That said use of force starts with tactical verbal skills, not ripping the window out and yanking him out of the car. Maybe start with step out of the vehicle, you are under arrest. And tactical verbal skills is not saying the easy way or the hard way. If someone asked why I pulled them over, I would just tell them. Goes both ways. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:22:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Papers please.
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:22:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Made me cringe when he did the stop without calling it in on the radio  |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:23:29 PM EDT
[#21]
It's funny..I always knew this place was filled with closeted liberals. You all talk a good game, however.
Was it your time in law school, your experience in the courtroom or on the street? 
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:24:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW: Here in MI it's a misdemeanor to fail to provide ID to an LEO when asked, when the Officer has RS that a crime has been committed. I believe you that law exists, but if the law allows arresting for failure to ID on a RS based Terry stop with no PC for a specific crime, it will not survive court challenges. Just a matter of a lawyer being tenacious enough to keep after it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:25:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please, point to the section of ANY state's legal code that requires police to deescalate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please, point to the section of ANY state's legal code that requires police to deescalate. lol @ you thinking this is some sort of defense for being an asshole. Quoted:
RS or PC? I believe you that law exists, but if the law allows arresting for failure to ID on a RS based Terry stop with no PC for a specific crime, it will not survive court challenges. Just a matter of a lawyer being tenacious enough to keep after it. Hiibel says RAS. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:26:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
May have updated his position/status and the tag number though the computer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Made me cringe when he did the stop without calling it in on the radio Doubt he put anything into his MDT |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would it have killed the driver to have handed over his ID as requested (and required) before finding out why he was stopped? |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:28:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed the officer could have de escalated this by just telling him why he was stopped. I would guess there was no valid reason. so officer friendly became not so friendly. I would probably aquit the defendant if I was on the jury as the officer went aggressive way too early in the stop. just fucking tell the guy when he still wont produce the documents cuff and stuff |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:29:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Good smash.
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:30:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Letting the driver control the stop doesn't de-escalate things. Letting the driver play the "I am not cooperating until the officer answers my questions " game gives control to the driver. The driver thinks he can argue and fight the stop right there. That makes everything worse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
agreed the officer could have de escalated this by just telling him why he was stopped. I would guess there was no valid reason. so officer friendly became not so friendly. I would probably aquit the defendant if I was on the jury as the officer went aggressive way too early in the stop. just fucking tell the guy when he still wont produce the documents cuff and stuff  window licking.
Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____". And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:31:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha. Well in my experience, if they want to continue an argument after you politely told them that you would let them know everything as soon as they handed over their ID, they're most likely going to go around in circles and argue about other shit once you answer their questions. It's probably a safe bet that in this case, if the cop entertained the driver's reason request before handing his ID, the driver would have then started to complain about the reason and would refuse to hand over his ID anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The arrest itself was fine, but would it kill him to tell him why he pulled him over? It's probably a safe bet that in this case, if the cop entertained the driver's reason request before handing his ID, the driver would have then started to complain about the reason and would refuse to hand over his ID anyway. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:33:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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The arrest itself was fine, but would it kill him to tell him why he pulled him over? It's probably a safe bet that in this case, if the cop entertained the driver's reason request before handing his ID, the driver would have then started to complain about the reason and would refuse to hand over his ID anyway. Good thinking. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:33:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a legal requirement on the police to de-escalate people who refuse to obey the law, or is there a legal requirement for people to obey the law in the first place and de-escalate their own unlawful behavior when confronted by the police? I'll give you a hint, the former doesn't exist except in the mind of the ACLU and some idiotic department policies. The latter has been the law of the land since longer than you've been alive. If you commit a traffic violation you don't get to put conditions on when you produce your documents. You stopped being in control of the interaction when you violated the law and got pulled over. The officer doesn't owe you an explanation before you produce the documents you are required to carry when operating a vehicle. The interaction can consist entirely of "Give me your license and registration" and "Here is your ticket for xxx." Explaining the reason for the stop is just the polite thing to do, not a legal requirement, and you most certainly do not get to play the "You have to tell me what I did" game. I have the added requirement of having to slip "I am a concealed handgun license holder" into that mess. Americans have rights in court. Not on the street. You make the point well. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:33:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha. Well in my experience, if they want to continue an argument after you politely told them that you would let them know everything as soon as they handed over their ID, they're most likely going to go around in circles and argue about other shit once you answer their questions. It's probably a safe bet that in this case, if the cop entertained the driver's reason request before handing his ID, the driver would have then started to complain about the reason and would refuse to hand over his ID anyway. It's a good arrest |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:34:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He'll just start arguing the ticket, and still refuse to give his ID. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Would it have killed the driver to have handed over his ID as requested (and required) before finding out why he was stopped? |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:35:39 PM EDT
[#34]
The careful application of a little hickory would have sped up the process.
Good arrest. 
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:36:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is window licking.
Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____". And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:37:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Law review articles advocate a position. You know this, right? They're a journal of ideas, not absolute fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There was an intriguing article in the Oklahoma Law Review regarding the 5th. Based on the article, the 5th applies in court but not when you are asked to identify yourself. IOW, identification is mandatory. Original point being that depending on the 5th in regards to self identification just might not hold up in court. The difference between knowledge and wisdom is this. Knowledge says that you might be right. Wisdom says that you don't want to be the court case. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:37:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Telling him why he was being pulled over would have definitely de-escalated things. To think continuing to be standoff-ish is somehow less likely to cause escalation is window licking.
Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____". And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
agreed the officer could have de escalated this by just telling him why he was stopped. I would guess there was no valid reason. so officer friendly became not so friendly. I would probably aquit the defendant if I was on the jury as the officer went aggressive way too early in the stop. just fucking tell the guy when he still wont produce the documents cuff and stuff window licking.
Every PD around me in fact requires by policy that the first few things a driver hears when he's pulled over is "I'm ____ with ____ department, the reason I'm contacting/stopping you today is ____". And for good reason. Stops any of this "why are you stopping me?" crap. 
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:38:37 PM EDT
[#38]
"I'll tell you what the deal is, you're probably suspended so you don't want to give me your license"
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:39:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Why did they take the woman?
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:40:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Driver was an asshole. But why did they cuff the wife at the end of that shit show? It didn't seem that she did anything except sit there.
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:41:14 PM EDT
[#41]
If you drive on public roads you must have a drivers license and provide that information to police when requested, failure to do so is an arrestable offense. Failure to provide identification.
We have no legal obligation to inform a driver why they were stopped, it's a courtesy. He could of told the driver why he was stopped and then an argument could of happened if how he didn't violate whatever traffic code. Some cops conduct traffic stops the way the cop in the video do and some don't. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:41:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I'll tell you what the deal is, you're probably suspended so you don't want to give me your license" |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:43:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I'll tell you what the deal is, you're probably suspended so you don't want to give me your license" |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:44:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Driver was an asshole and got just what he deserved. Just walking down the street minding your own business you do not have to produce your papers. When you are driving you do have to produce your drivers license and registration.
The law as far as I know doesn't say " you will produce drivers license and registration AFTER the officer informs you why you were stopped." The officer is probably sick and tired of listening to jail house and shit house lawyers trying to enforce THEIR version of the law on him. Driving a car? Give the officer your license and registration when asked or go to jail for identification. Real simple. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:45:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The arrest itself was fine, but would it kill him to tell him why he pulled him over? |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:46:00 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:48:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a legal requirement on the police to de-escalate people who refuse to obey the law, or is there a legal requirement for people to obey the law in the first place and de-escalate their own unlawful behavior when confronted by the police? I'll give you a hint, the former doesn't exist except in the mind of the ACLU and some idiotic department policies. The latter has been the law of the land since longer than you've been alive. If you commit a traffic violation you don't get to put conditions on when you produce your documents. You stopped being in control of the interaction when you violated the law and got pulled over. The officer doesn't owe you an explanation before you produce the documents you are required to carry when operating a vehicle. The interaction can consist entirely of "Give me your license and registration" and "Here is your ticket for xxx." Explaining the reason for the stop is just the polite thing to do, not a legal requirement, and you most certainly do not get to play the "You have to tell me what I did" game. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
agreed the officer could have de escalated this by just telling him why he was stopped. I would guess there was no valid reason. so officer friendly became not so friendly. I would probably aquit the defendant if I was on the jury as the officer went aggressive way too early in the stop. just fucking tell the guy when he still wont produce the documents cuff and stuff I'll give you a hint, the former doesn't exist except in the mind of the ACLU and some idiotic department policies. The latter has been the law of the land since longer than you've been alive. If you commit a traffic violation you don't get to put conditions on when you produce your documents. You stopped being in control of the interaction when you violated the law and got pulled over. The officer doesn't owe you an explanation before you produce the documents you are required to carry when operating a vehicle. The interaction can consist entirely of "Give me your license and registration" and "Here is your ticket for xxx." Explaining the reason for the stop is just the polite thing to do, not a legal requirement, and you most certainly do not get to play the "You have to tell me what I did" game. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:52:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a legal requirement on the police to de-escalate people who refuse to obey the law, or is there a legal requirement for people to obey the law in the first place and de-escalate their own unlawful behavior when confronted by the police? I'll give you a hint, the former doesn't exist except in the mind of the ACLU and some idiotic department policies. The latter has been the law of the land since longer than you've been alive. If you commit a traffic violation you don't get to put conditions on when you produce your documents. You stopped being in control of the interaction when you violated the law and got pulled over. The officer doesn't owe you an explanation before you produce the documents you are required to carry when operating a vehicle. The interaction can consist entirely of "Give me your license and registration" and "Here is your ticket for xxx." Explaining the reason for the stop is just the polite thing to do, not a legal requirement, and you most certainly do not get to play the "You have to tell me what I did" game. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
agreed the officer could have de escalated this by just telling him why he was stopped. I would guess there was no valid reason. so officer friendly became not so friendly. I would probably aquit the defendant if I was on the jury as the officer went aggressive way too early in the stop. just fucking tell the guy when he still wont produce the documents cuff and stuff I'll give you a hint, the former doesn't exist except in the mind of the ACLU and some idiotic department policies. The latter has been the law of the land since longer than you've been alive. If you commit a traffic violation you don't get to put conditions on when you produce your documents. You stopped being in control of the interaction when you violated the law and got pulled over. The officer doesn't owe you an explanation before you produce the documents you are required to carry when operating a vehicle. The interaction can consist entirely of "Give me your license and registration" and "Here is your ticket for xxx." Explaining the reason for the stop is just the polite thing to do, not a legal requirement, and you most certainly do not get to play the "You have to tell me what I did" game. 
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:53:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I am required to hand over an ID to an officer when stopped, the law should require for police to identify the reason for the stop as well. Fuck that. In the couple of times I have been stopped in 43 years of driving, it has always been " license and registration" and then " do you know why I stopped you " then " because you were speeding" or " you have a burned out tail light." I was able to contain my desire to know why I was stopped for the 30 seconds it took for the officer to get to it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2017 12:54:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Driver was an asshole. But why did they cuff the wife at the end of that shit show? It didn't seem that she did anything except sit there. |
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