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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:07:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Look at it this way:
Quoted:
What say the hive... 2002 F250 4x4 with the 7.3L 150,000 miles = $12,500 = tow capacity of 12,000lbs Loaded mileage: 11-12 mpg 2017 F150 FX4 with the 3.5L V6 Brand New = $37,500 = tow capacity of 12,000lbs Loaded mileage: 6-7 mpg |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:08:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Towing capacity is a bullshit rating. Talk to me about GVWR, GCWR, and RAWR. Those are the numbers that matter. I'll take the 3/4-ton truck every day and twice on Sunday. It has bigger brakes, beefier frame, beefier transmission, stouter steering and heavier-duty suspension. Now with that said..if today's one ton is the only way to tow such a load..why not bigger still? Why not a ford SD450 or 550 since bigger is the only answer? What if you jump from 12k to 15 k..is the one ton now unsafe, just as the half ton was? Just curious why the Goverment has ratings that the vehicles have to meet to be safe on the road.....I think a smart person would weigh all of his options including rated weight, tow speed, tow distance and tow frequency and decide which platform best fills all his criteria..... |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:23:30 PM EDT
[#3]
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happily with only several thousand dollars in repairs along the way to 350K injectors high pressure oil pump turbo's (yes) I laugh at all the "diesel's run forever comments" I've been there and spent that money, they have their place that's for sure but not for everybody Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The 7.3 will happily tow that 12k for another 350k miles, where as that brand new v6 will limp to 100k regularly towing 12k. injectors high pressure oil pump turbo's (yes) I laugh at all the "diesel's run forever comments" I've been there and spent that money, they have their place that's for sure but not for everybody Maybe i am wrong here, but if the OP os planning on towing 12k behind an ecoboost regularly that drivetrain will be in a billion peices all over the highway before 100k. And i would bet a new ecoboost engine is just as costly as injectors, turbo, oil pumps etc. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:31:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
What say the hive... 2002 F250 4x4 with the 7.3L 150,000 miles = $12,500 = tow capacity of 12,000lbs 2017 F150 FX4 with the 3.5L V6 Brand New = $37,500 = tow capacity of 12,000lbs It will suck with either one. I have owned both. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:41:43 PM EDT
[#5]
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Just to piss of people that say you can't tow with a 150. This weighs 9k lbs loaded and I forget its back there. Equalizer hitch and plenty of pulling and stopping power. And has to have 18k lb plates to be legal. http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo131/quick1988/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_6258.jpg I have a 2016 Ram 3500 diesel dually, and I sure as shit know when even 5k is behind me... |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:49:58 PM EDT
[#6]
If you aren't towing all the time and don't want a daily driver, then look for a 1 ton Chevy with the 8.1.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:40:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at it this way: Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at it this way: Quoted:
What say the hive... 2002 F250 4x4 with the 7.3L 150,000 miles = $12,500 = tow capacity of 12,000lbs Loaded mileage: 11-12 mpg 2017 F150 FX4 with the 3.5L V6 Brand New = $37,500 = tow capacity of 12,000lbs Loaded mileage: 6-7 mpg |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:41:33 AM EDT
[#8]
This thread needs more Cummins
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:44:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not to single you out, but that is such a BS statement. I hear it all the time from every truck owner under the sun. I have a 2016 Ram 3500 diesel dually, and I sure as shit know when even 5k is behind me... The bigger issue is people with 1 ton trucks who think they will not benefit from a weight distribution hitch with sway control and a proper weight distributed trailer. 5 hour drives with auto cruise control at nothing but enjoyable n |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:56:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait til the VTEC kicks in yo  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
12K with a medium sized V6?   I am positive that wont work the way you think  no one say you CANT pull with a F150 .....there are better options. Your money do what you want. I will pass your happy ass pulling 15K smiling and waving with my Dmax 
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:09:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. A 2002 F250 CC LB diesel has a maximum payload of 816lbs. That's not a typo, eight hundred sixteen pounds. Including passengers. Four Arfcommers and nothing in the bed and it's already overloaded. Think about that while you're counting your nuts. Show me the payload sticker or GTFO. My two Jeep Wranglers have a higher payload rating than that. Here's what I found on the 2000 Superduty trucks. Show me where any of these variants has a payload of anywhere near 816 lbs. 
ETA: Source from Ford fleet website Oh, and you half-ton fanboys, show me your payload sticker that comes anywhere close to these numbers. And I still haven't heard anyone address semifloating vs fullfloating axles. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:11:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 7.3 will happily tow that 12k for another 350k miles, where as that brand new v6 will limp to 100k regularly towing 12k. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:12:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread needs more Cummins |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:14:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread needs more Cummins |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:29:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll take the 3/4-ton truck every day and twice on Sunday. It has bigger brakes, beefier frame, beefier transmission, stouter steering and heavier-duty suspension. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:09:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The proper GD spelling is Cummings
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:12:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. Total and complete bullshit. According to Ford, you're off by about 2400 lbs. Show me the payload sticker or GTFO. My two Jeep Wranglers have a higher payload rating than that. Here's what I found on the 2000 Superduty trucks. Show me where any of these variants has a payload of anywhere near 816 lbs. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/variseal/superduty%20payloads_zpsv4q5qowo.jpg ETA: Source from Ford fleet website Oh, and you half-ton fanboys, show me your payload sticker that comes anywhere close to these numbers. And I still haven't heard anyone address semifloating vs fullfloating axles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL. A 2002 F250 CC LB diesel has a maximum payload of 816lbs. That's not a typo, eight hundred sixteen pounds. Including passengers. Four Arfcommers and nothing in the bed and it's already overloaded. Think about that while you're counting your nuts. Show me the payload sticker or GTFO. My two Jeep Wranglers have a higher payload rating than that. Here's what I found on the 2000 Superduty trucks. Show me where any of these variants has a payload of anywhere near 816 lbs. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/variseal/superduty%20payloads_zpsv4q5qowo.jpg ETA: Source from Ford fleet website Oh, and you half-ton fanboys, show me your payload sticker that comes anywhere close to these numbers. And I still haven't heard anyone address semifloating vs fullfloating axles. Page 5. Eight hundred sixteen pounds. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:13:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 7.3 will happily tow that 12k for another 350k miles, where as that brand new v6 will limp to 100k regularly towing 12k. If you tow 12k 1x per year....thats different than towing 12k daily. Maintenance cost on the 7.3 is going to be a lot higher than the 3.5...... |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:17:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't knock the ecoboost until you have towed with one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
12K with a medium sized V6? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:17:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not a doubter of what you say, but imagine a 2000 lb Subaru with 800 WHP + oversized brakes + suspension system that auto levels. It exists, I have it & thinking I should unload. But, what do you think? The tranny (not gay) has straight cut gears & Quaife differentials. Nothing is going to break. Light vehicle + heavy load = easier for that load to drive you. Also psi on the truck tires is at least double that of your car, which means more traction. Longer wheelbase = better towing. If you tow heavy stuff a lot, get the heaviest framed truck you can afford. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:18:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
12K with a medium sized V6? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:26:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/2002_All.pdf Page 5. Eight hundred sixteen pounds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/2002_All.pdf Page 5. Eight hundred sixteen pounds. Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is
maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a passenger (150-lbs. per) at each available seating position
ETA: Try that with your half-ton and let me know how that works out for you. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:28:08 AM EDT
[#23]
I've learned in this thread that a lot of people believe rated towing capacity has everything to do with the engine hp/tq numbers.
V6 Tacoma is rated at 6500lbs though I don't like to tow above 4500. Tried with a steel car hauler+3300lb car and that taught me I wanted an aluminum trailer. Granted if I towed more than once a month I would just get a different truck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading is fundamental. Read right at the top of that page... So, in other words, you have 816 lbs of payload left if you have 6 people already in the truck, each weighing 150 lbs, for a total of 900 lbs.
ETA: Try that with your half-ton and let me know how that works out for you. At least to me, what are the payload capacities of other trucks comparatively? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:32:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading is fundamental. Read right at the top of that page... So, in other words, you have 816 lbs of payload left if you have 6 people already in the truck, each weighing 150 lbs, for a total of 900 lbs.
ETA: Try that with your half-ton and let me know how that works out for you. Same configuration F150 is ~ 1000 pounds higher. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:33:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't knock the ecoboost until you have towed with one. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 2:47:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. Total and complete bullshit. According to Ford, you're off by about 2400 lbs. Show me the payload sticker or GTFO. My two Jeep Wranglers have a higher payload rating than that. Here's what I found on the 2000 Superduty trucks. Show me where any of these variants has a payload of anywhere near 816 lbs. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/variseal/superduty%20payloads_zpsv4q5qowo.jpg ETA: Source from Ford fleet website Oh, and you half-ton fanboys, show me your payload sticker that comes anywhere close to these numbers. And I still haven't heard anyone address semifloating vs fullfloating axles. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 2:50:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading is fundamental. Read right at the top of that page... So, in other words, you have 816 lbs of payload left if you have 6 people already in the truck, each weighing 150 lbs, for a total of 900 lbs.
ETA: Try that with your half-ton and let me know how that works out for you. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 3:10:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Meh - I'd tow that without worries in a new(ish) half-ton of whatever flavor. And if in Ford flavor would definitely go with the EB, which makes better hp and torque over a wider RPM range than the 5.0.
In gooseneck or fifth wheel config I wouldn't even blink an eye. Bumper pull I would take extra time making sure the trailer was loaded to my satisfaction. But, if I knew I was going to be towing that ALL THE TIME I would perhaps choose a 3/4 ton truck. Of some flavor. After doing the cost vs benefit math. One thing is for certain - the '17 F150 is going to be WAY WAY more comfortable than the 7.3 F250. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 3:15:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't knock the ecoboost until you have towed with one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
12K with a medium sized V6?
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Posted: 5/23/2017 3:53:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading is fundamental. Read right at the top of that page... So, in other words, you have 816 lbs of payload left if you have 6 people already in the truck, each weighing 150 lbs, for a total of 900 lbs.
ETA: Try that with your half-ton and let me know how that works out for you. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 4:36:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So take my 1704 payload on my 150. Add 150 for the driver that's built in and it exceeds the payload of that super duty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Reading is fundamental. Read right at the top of that page... So, in other words, you have 816 lbs of payload left if you have 6 people already in the truck, each weighing 150 lbs, for a total of 900 lbs.
ETA: Try that with your half-ton and let me know how that works out for you.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:18:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So take my 1704 payload on my 150. Add 150 for the driver that's built in and it exceeds the payload of that super duty. So call it a wash. And that number is an absolute worst-case vehicle for the Super Duty. Crew cab, long bed, diesel. If you look at the graphic I posted a while back, the payload numbers for most versions of the Super Duty, even 17 years ago are well over 2000 lbs, and most are close to or above 3000 lbs. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:20:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Double tap
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:26:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The eco will get 9-11 towing unless you drive like a moron |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:16:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've learned in this thread that a lot of people believe rated towing capacity has everything to do with the engine hp/tq numbers. For comparison, in 1970 you could get a Kenworth W900 Semi-Tractor with a - wait for it - 290hp or 335hp Cummins 14L Diesel engine in it. That Kenworth tractor was rated to pull a whole bunch more than 12,000lbs. In fact, it essentially had the same capabilities as today's Class 8 trucks (33,000lbs + GVWR) for the sake of this discussion in terms of comparison. So how did a semi tractor truck with a measly 290 or 335 HP engine safely haul 33,000+ lbs? Well for starts, the engine had over 1000lb-ft of torque (but even now in 2500 and 3500 Dodge, Chevy and Ford Trucks you can get close to 9000lb-ft of torque form the high output diesels) but that isn't it either. What it did have was a very beefy transmission to apply that torque and power to the drive wheels, and a much beefier frame, brakes, and suspension to be able to control that weight safely. You definitely need a good engine to tow a heavy load, but that's only one part in a much bigger puzzle. Having the drive line, chassis, brakes, and suspension to handle the load is where it really counts. ETA, for anyone curious as to truck classifications, wiki has a nice summary table. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:29:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You definitely need a good engine to tow a heavy load, but that's only one part in a much bigger puzzle. Having the drive line, chassis, brakes, and suspension to handle the load is where it really counts. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:55:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When in tow mode other than the braking and accel which is still good, I get no sway and very little bounce. The bigger issue is people with 1 ton trucks who think they will not benefit from a weight distribution hitch with sway control and a proper weight distributed trailer. 5 hour drives with auto cruise control at nothing but enjoyable n When I see travel trailers, pulled behind SUV's and F150's, even with a WDH, they are subject to the dynamics of the system, which with a bumper pull hitch, suck. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:58:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I see travel trailers, pulled behind SUV's and F150's, even with a WDH, they are subject to the dynamics of the system, which with a bumper pull hitch, suck. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:09:07 PM EDT
[#39]
tag
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:11:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not a doubter of what you say, but imagine a 2000 lb Subaru with 800 WHP + oversized brakes + suspension system that auto levels. It exists, I have it & thinking I should unload. But, what do you think? The tranny (not gay) has straight cut gears & Quaife differentials. Nothing is going to break. How about when the guy in front of you on the highway comes to a screaming stop and your 12000 lbs trailer passes you?
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:17:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. But no reason you can't put a gooseneck hitch in a half-ton truck. I've pulled lots of stuff doing exactly that. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:22:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Oh nevermind.the stupid in this thread burns
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:26:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. I'd much rather see a 30 foot 12k 5th wheel behind a half ton than a 10k bumper pull. The half ton just doesn't have enough weight to control that kind of mass hanging off the bumper. '17 SCREW shortbed F150 is 5000 lbs. '16 SCREW shortbed F250 is 6500 lbs. 2002 single cab long bed Dodge Cummins is 5400 lbs. Weight-wise there isn't all that much difference between the heavier half-tons and the lighter 3/4 and 1 tons. Especially pre-aluminum body. Thus we get back to the crux of the discussion - what practical difference is there between newer half-tons and older 3/4 ton pickups, aside from engine choice? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:31:02 PM EDT
[#44]
OP has reached troll level, Trump. Well played OP, well played.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:36:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure I would go thaaat far, maybe 7k; certainty not 10k+. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure I would go thaaat far, maybe 7k; certainty not 10k+. Quoted:
Towing anything above 3k pounds with a half ton is a joke. I prefer not to base how far I push my equipment on what it can do when everything goes right. A light rain and someone pulling out in front of you and 7k is going to toss a half ton in the ditch like it's as heavy as a ping pong ball. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:39:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 7.3 will happily tow that 12k for another 350k miles, where as that brand new v6 will limp to 100k regularly towing 12k. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:39:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would go that far. I prefer not to base how far I push my equipment on what it can do when everything goes right. A light rain and someone pulling out in front of you and 7k is going to toss a half ton in the ditch like it's as heavy as a ping pong ball. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not sure I would go thaaat far, maybe 7k; certainty not 10k+. Quoted:
Towing anything above 3k pounds with a half ton is a joke. I prefer not to base how far I push my equipment on what it can do when everything goes right. A light rain and someone pulling out in front of you and 7k is going to toss a half ton in the ditch like it's as heavy as a ping pong ball. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:41:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would go that far. I prefer not to base how far I push my equipment on what it can do when everything goes right. A light rain and someone pulling out in front of you and 7k is going to toss a half ton in the ditch like it's as heavy as a ping pong ball. 7k is EASY in a half-ton. Especially in a half-ton equipped with towing package. Doubly so if the trailer is in good working order, with working brakes. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:41:52 PM EDT
[#49]
My Ford experience has always been you want cut about 40% of whatever capacity or spec. in question. tire pressure and the like you'll be adding about 40%.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:44:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My Ford experience has always been you want cut about 40% of whatever capacity or spec. in question. Mileage,tire pressure and the like you'll be adding about 40%. |
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