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2/23/2017 5:55:53 PM
Posted: 5/3/2001 11:43:06 AM EST
Just curious on this one after seeing the 3-round burst kit in the bushmaster catalog. Unfortunately, I would have to a NFA license to buy such a thing. I don't really see why though. Full-auto can be pretty dangerous, but a three round burst reduces alot of the spray and pray that would do on with full-auto. Can anybody tell me why three rounds for one pull of the trigger would be more dangerous than semi-auto fire?
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 11:45:29 AM EST
a 3 round burst is full auto well atleast ATF think its is full auto more than round fired per pull of the trigger perosnly i think all the gun laws are BS
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 11:45:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2001 11:44:43 AM EST by vicg1]
That 3 round burst kit doesn't make your semi rifle fire in 3 round bursts. It's a conversion to make a full auto only AR into a semi/3 round burst gun. 3 round burst is not dangerous and neither is full auto. The government has simply decided that you and I as citizens shouldn't have very easy access to such items.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 11:50:44 AM EST
3 round burst kits are dumb anyway. Anybody can do 3 round bursts from a full auto gun.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 11:53:30 AM EST
First, auto should not be illegal, if you want to chop down trees that is your business. Second, three round burst has a higher hit probability than semiauto, but is more efficent than hosing. Third, the ATF is a goon squad for the Schumer Reich "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future! - Adolf Hitler, 1935 Scary huh! Ice
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 11:53:57 AM EST
I agree that the gun laws are a stupid, but what I want to know is why 3 round is "bad", what is so dangerous about it? Why can't I walk into my gun store and walk out with an ar with 3 positions on the selector instead of two?
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:06:52 PM EST
"Second, three round burst has a higher hit probability than semiauto, but is more efficent than hosing." This is what millions of dollars of military testing found and the lawmakers got scared. Ban criminals not guns. Ice
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:12:16 PM EST
if you have a selective fire weapon you are violating interstate commerce laws. the gun control act of 1934 restricted full-weapons from this back door. selective fire weapons should be legal. whats the difference in shooting a three round burst vs buchshot with 12 pellet that can cause multiple wounds in a single pull of the trigger. at leat with three shot burst you'd have better range and could place all three rounds into target. think of it as a long range shotgun blast with super duper full choke [shotgun] single pellet shooting lib
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:16:15 PM EST
Of course 3 shot burst should be legal without registration. Sport utility rifles should be legal without registration, machine guns too.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:20:30 PM EST
think of it as a long range shotgun blast with super duper full choke LOL!!!
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:22:50 PM EST
eh. I've fired two full-auto Bushmasters,and even first time off,it was easy to make three/four round bursts.If you can,it's neat,but don't go head over heels trying to get a class3 weapon.You can have just as much fun with semi-auto,save ammo,save your gun's life,and you can shoot as fast as you want:) it promotes real fire disipline
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:40:44 PM EST
Sure they should but don't plan on it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:47:05 PM EST
It is within your inalienable 2nd Amendment rights to own whatever your want wherever you want. A right cannot be licensed as then it becomes a priviledge which is subject to revocation by the government.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:50:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Darin Marple: Just curious on this one after seeing the 3-round burst kit in the bushmaster catalog. Unfortunately, I would have to a NFA license to buy such a thing. I don't really see why though. Full-auto can be pretty dangerous, but a three round burst reduces alot of the spray and pray that would do on with full-auto. Can anybody tell me why three rounds for one pull of the trigger would be more dangerous than semi-auto fire?
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This is not a flame. THere is no "NFA license", a magical card or permit that allows for unlimited purchase of c3 hardware. This is a common misconception. With the exception of c2 manufacturers, LE Agencies, Government Agencies, and a handful of other exceptions, Photo, Fingerprints, CLEO sig, and $200.00 must accompany EVERY NFA transfer. There is no "Permit" system in place. McUZI
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:51:38 PM EST
if you have a selective fire weapon you are violating interstate commerce laws. the gun control act of 1934 restricted full-weapons from this back door.
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WTF are you talking about? Thats the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. First off, there are no "interstate commerce laws" regarding the mere possession of full autos. Its a tax matter; see title 26 of the US Code. May have been enacted pursuant to the commerce power, but its not an interstate commerce law. Second you are not necessarily in violation of the law even if you are in possession of a selective fire weapon. LOts of guys, myself included, own NFA weapons legally.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 2:53:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2001 2:54:41 PM EST by Ticonderoga]
Originally Posted By Ice: Second, three round burst has a higher hit probability than semiauto, but is more efficent than hosing.
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Wrong! Three round burst does not have a higher hit probability, in the hands of a MARKSMAN. It has a higher hit probability in the hands of the worst 1/3 of soldiers in the military. Full auto is designed to make up for lack of training. 3 round burst is designed to make up for lack of trigger control and to prevent barrel meltdown. At the last Texas Shoot (2 weeks ago) boy was it ever apparant how useless full auto is at multiple targets at 90-100 yards. We had guys with bolt guns and lever guns take down 5 targets long before guys on semi auto could, much less the guy that blew 2 mags for 60 rounds and MAYBE hit one target. If SHTF my 16 would 99% of the time be set for SEMI auto. FA is a fun toy at the range to marvel and impress the crowd, that's about it. When you look at infamous shootings, the Full Auto Hollywood Bank robbers didn't kill a single cop with 1,000's of rounds fired. The Jew in Jerusalem that lit up the crowd of Palestinians using (get this) slow aimed semi auto fire, killed dozens. Full Auto is as dangerous as well aimed semi auto fire. It's a poor man's handicap for poor shooting skills.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 2:58:47 PM EST
Timing the bursts is simple. I've fired consistent 1, 2, and 3 shots from an UZI set to full auto... It's GREAT!!! Another shameless plug for the free submachine gun course at [url]www.frontsight.com[/url]
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 3:07:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2001 3:13:08 PM EST by erickm]
Originally Posted By EmCee/UZI: THere is no "NFA license", a magical card or permit that allows for unlimited purchase of c3 hardware. ... Photo, Fingerprints, CLEO sig, and $200.00 must accompany EVERY NFA transfer.
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as very very little I know about it, I would say that the statements above are wrong when applied to the subject of a burst cam. I think you're right about no such "NFA License" that would let him buy it unless you mean no such thing as a c2 or c3 dealer license, because there are bunches of them. but I don't think thats an NFA transfer since it's not a firearm or a silencer, it can only be installed in a gun thats restricted like you mentioned above and bushmaster does require proof of ownership of a registered NFA weapon. And I believe it's also perfectly legal for a non-nfa person to have one of those in their posession so long as they don't have own any firearms it would fit, but why buy it? can someone correct me on this? A registered lightning link or dias is considered the nfa weapon itself and can be used on anything right?
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 3:11:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sofa_King: eh. I've fired two full-auto Bushmasters,and even first time off,it was easy to make three/four round bursts.If you can,it's neat,but don't go head over heels trying to get a class3 weapon.You can have just as much fun with semi-auto,save ammo,save your gun's life,and you can shoot as fast as you want:) it promotes real fire disipline
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I totally agree. The autos have their place in squad tactics - keep the enemies heads down - but nothing can replace that single or double from the semi-auto in well trained hands. If the first round doesn't drop them, put another in them. Don't get me wrong, full auto is a lot of fun and impresses the hell out of people, but damned hard on weapons and the ammo supply. In boot camp, we each fired off a full thirty in full auto and were told: "This will be the last time your weapon will ever be in full auto mode. We hit what we are aiming at and there's no need to put 5 rounds into one man." Besides, when the SHTF, I'll want my ammo to last as long as possible.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 3:22:01 PM EST
The real question is why should any firearm be illegal in the first place?
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 3:42:52 PM EST
We hit what we are aiming at and there's no need to put 5 rounds into one man."
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What's funny about that is some of the observations made by several of the Rangers and Delta guys... In Somolia, they would fire [i]10 or 15 aimed rounds[/i] in to the bad guys, and [i]they would not fall![/i] Look guys, I'm not here to knock .223, but in reality, it was doing what it was designed to do. The .233 was designed to wound more than to kill, it takes 2-4 people to care for a wounded man. Even when the soliders put rounds through the chest, the bad guys kept on moving. When you're limited to jacketed ammo, you [i]have[/i] to fire a lot of rounds, if you want the guy to stop being a threat immediately. Now, if they allowed the military to have hollowpoints...
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 3:51:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By libertarian: if you have a selective fire weapon you are violating interstate commerce laws. the gun control act of 1934 restricted full-weapons from this back door. selective fire weapons should be legal. whats the difference in shooting a three round burst vs buchshot with 12 pellet that can cause multiple wounds in a single pull of the trigger. at leat with three shot burst you'd have better range and could place all three rounds into target. think of it as a long range shotgun blast with super duper full choke [shotgun] single pellet shooting lib
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No,No, No Now you are giving them (anti's)more evil ideas.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:27:11 PM EST
to shaggy: i didn't refer to legal possessors of transfered class 3 weapons only illeagel auto weapons.[;)] i apologize for not remembering the connection between interstate commerce laws and the tax code, but the ATF is a part of the treasury dept. they collect taxes. a transfer fee is a tax. i shall go back through my notes and post how interstate commerce laws concern class 3 laws as im quite sure i didn't pull this out of me own arse [:D] non-full-auto owning lib [uzi]
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:29:29 PM EST
Three rd burst should be legal. But so should auto. gun laws suck.[puke]
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:49:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ice: "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future! - Adolf Hitler, 1935 Scary huh! Ice
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Hate to break it to ya but the preceding quote is more then likely a hoax. [url]http://www.jpfo.org/faq.htm[/url] Scroll down to the second FAQ. I wish it were true. It would be a good anchor for our philosophies but since it aint true, we shouldn't use it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:55:09 PM EST
To shaggy: www.2ndlawlib.org/journals/halcoeq.html Title 1 of gca 1938 based on interstate commerce power. has mainly to do with transfers and dealers selling registred machine guns. Title 2 based on taxing power. what you need to pay in order to possess an nfa weapon. this is only a gist. i have'nt had the time to researching Title 1 and all of its implications, but this may be were i got the interstate commerce thing. researching lib
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 5:35:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2001 5:35:14 PM EST by sf46]
Yeah a 3 round burst gun should be something anybody could buy. If they simply must register it, it oughta be an AOW with the $5 tax stamp. That's just my opinion, which is likely to be law the next time there is a snow storm in Miami on the Fourth of July.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 5:48:25 PM EST
...if someone knows more about interstate commerce and/or tax laws please feel free to chime in. no sense in holding back [:D] as i understand it from what i've read 1.the ATF levies a tax on individuals who wish to tranfer a registred nfa weapon. this transfer falls under interstate commerce powers 2. they can do this as they are a part of the treasury department. the power to tax comes from the tax law (us code 26) which i would believe comes from interstate commerce law. this is where i have trouble. come on dont be bashfull, fill me in. 3. GCA 34 used interstate commerce laws to prohibit felons and fugitives from possessing and/or transferring machine guns. 4. remove interstate commerce laws concerning class 3 weapons and the ATF may not be able to register or levy a tax on full-auto firearms. i may very well be wrong about this, but hey im opened minded and reading [:)] 5. i could'nt find out(or missed it) if interstate laws concern unregistered selective fire weapons or not. i'd assume so, at least under other laws from the ATF. inquisitive lib
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 6:44:14 PM EST
Lib - I want to apologize for the tone of my earlier post. When I see someone saying something about full auto or select fire stuff being illegal, sometimes I get my panties all in a bunch because I've got a safe full of them. With regards to the interstate commerce thing. Before Congress can legislate, they need to find a constitutional basis for that legislation. That is, congress can't legislate in a particular area if the constitution does not authorize congress to legislate in that particular area. Back in the early part of the 20th century when the NFA'34 was enacted, there wasn't the expansive view of what constitutes interstate commerce as there is now. Through the years, the US Supreme Court has ruled that just about anything can be legislated under the commerce power. The only time it has ever failed to my knowledge is in the gun free schol zones act. The Court said there wasn't a sufficient nexus between carrying a gun in a school zone and interstate commerce for Congress to have based the legislation on their commerce power. They could still however regulate guns under the commerce power, since guns are an item in interstate commerce. Other that that one example (gun free school zones act), just about everything under the sun is legislated under the commerce power these days; anti-discrimination laws, drug laws, regulation of the airwaves, gun regulations (including the 1994 AWB). In fact, its amost hard to find something that is not legislated pursuant to the congressional power to regulate intrstate commerce. So "interstate commerce" isn't really a law or set of laws (at least not here), its just how congress constitutionally justifies the exercise of their power to legislate in a particular area. Another basis for congressional power to legislate is under the taxing power. It doesn't come under the interstate commerce power, its just another basis for congressional power. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution lists several basis of congressional power; these are just two. As i understand it, the NFA'34 was enacted pursuant to the taxing power because they didn't feel as though there was enough of a constitutional basis in interstate commerce.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 7:45:23 PM EST
[:)]Hmmm...so if we could all get the 16th amendment repealed, then would'nt the ATF loose its legal power? i've always been for abolishing the IRS and either going back to the original constitution method of state ratification of direct taxes or a national sales tax. the two systems could work well together i would think since a sales tax is collected by the state and not the federal government (www.fairtax.org). kill two birds with one stone! reduce the size of federal government and kick gun-laws off the book...that is unless individual states enacted laws against selective fire weapons. anti-tax lib
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 8:08:27 PM EST
THE MOST USEFULL FUNCTION OF FULL AUTO FIRE FROM A LIGHT WEAPON SUCH AS A 16 IS TO MAKE PEOPLE PUT THEIR HEADS DOWN AS IN AN IMMEDIATE ACTION DRILL WHEN SURPRISED BY AN OPPOSING FORCE. SOUP
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 9:16:57 PM EST
amen soupsandwich, and then you flip to semi and start taking them out
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 1:14:11 AM EST
HELL,,Full auto should be legal! FOR ANYONE, NOT PROHIBITED FROM OWNING FIREARMS.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 5:51:40 AM EST
I can see the where full-auto is more about wasting ammo than actual fire power, but I can still dream of toys, can't I?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 5:59:37 AM EST
Just my 2 cents but: According to what I have read of article 8 section 1 of the U.S. Constitution which plainly spells out the legislative powers, the federal government has no legal power to make laws concerning the ownership or use of firearms by anyone which is a right garenteed under the Constitution . Now if your Constitutional rights have been taken away by being convicted of commiting a major crime , then and only then should they be able to restrict a person from private firearm ownership. The broad range of powers the federal government has given itself over the years is plainly wrong. The states are supposed to make laws governing their citizens not the U.S. The federal government Is supposed to run the country, not it's citizens. The ongoing federal social programs are what has lead to bigger government. People want the federal government to take care of everything and run their lives by providing free medical services and running other aspects of their daily lives so they can be free of the responsiblities that come with freedom. Does that sound familiar to anyone? Sorry to rant.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:27:33 AM EST
The problem is that although these weapons are legal, noone short of a rich person can afford them. There is a shortage of NFA weapons. Just like preban mags, all that is out there is all there is. This is the real problem. We are slowly being disarmed and we cannot even see it. Hell , in Switzerland, you can go into any gunshop and walk out with an MP5. As long as you are a citizen you can walk in and walk out same day.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 9:45:58 AM EST
yep my i got relates from my dad's side of the family that still live in switzerland My grandpa was telling me about when he was visting some of them and he asked about that and his cousin pulled a loaded H&k G3 from the closet unloaded it and showed it to him. when my grandpa was telling me this i just kept thinking i gotta learn German,Italian and whatever the 3rd launguage is in switzerland
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 5:21:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: It is within your inalienable 2nd Amendment rights to own whatever your want wherever you want. A right cannot be licensed as then it becomes a priviledge which is subject to revocation by the government.
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The only logical answer to this question!!!!!!!!........[frag]
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:25:11 PM EST
These damned gun laws are a joke. Made by a bunch of god damned politicians who only wanted to cover their asses. Just my 2 cents worth.
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