Newbie needs help

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Posted: 5/3/2001 9:15:08 AM EDT

Alright, I'm 22, grew up in the city, and am just now starting to learn about guns. Anyway, I have a couple handguns and have now decided that it is time to get into rifles. I looked around and finally realized that I really like the versatility of AR style rifles. However, I know almost nothing about them and everything I read assumes you already know. So, what is the difference between pre- and post-ban? What are features that I NEED, WANT, or WOULD BE NICE when I look to purchase an AR? And what companies are GOOD and BAD? Thanks for the help. Email me at [email protected] with any replies, if you don't mind.

Posted: 5/3/2001 11:48:41 AM EDT

[#1]

Whew!

Good questions, but more than a simple reply will allow. Keep reading here and pick up your info, as there are some super-knowledgable people in here (and some not so knowledgeable, caveat).

Maybe if someone would be so kind as to give him the link to the old site and it's AR15 primer.....

Very quickly though:
NEED--detatchable mag, pistol grip, 16"+ barrel
WANT--collapseable buttstock, flash hider
NICE TO HAVE-- bayonet lug

Good luck

Posted: 5/3/2001 12:11:14 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
So, what is the difference between pre- and post-ban? .

View Quote

DEFINITELY start with a post ban, both for cost and legality reasons. Once you have learned more and are comfortable with the rifle, and the related legal issues, then think about the pre-ban option. Hang 'round here - you'll learn plenty.

What are features that I NEED, WANT, or WOULD BE NICE when I look to purchase an AR?.

View Quote

A postban HAS all the features you "need" - detach 20-30 round mag, and a pistol grip.

Eventually, you WILL want pre-ban features. But IMO you should wait before going pre-ban

And what companies are GOOD and BAD? .

View Quote

I would recommend Armalite as # 1, Bushmaster or Olympic Arms as #2, and Rock River Arms as a very close #3 (only because I don't have sufficient personal experience with them.) I don't like Colt for their political sell out. Just my opinion.

Of course, what you should buy depends on your intended use. The Limited Edition Group Purchase rifle ( as seen on the top of the General Discussions Forum list of posts) I believe would be an EXCELLENT first AR.

Posted: 5/3/2001 12:12:53 PM EDT

[#3]

Limited edition from this site is way cheap first AR-a great starter (or finisher for that matter) rifle for you. And inexpensive too!

Posted: 5/3/2001 12:15:17 PM EDT

[#4]

buy a post-ban first,that way util your seasoned a bit you won't have to get into the legalities of proving pre-ban status.With a post-ban there is no if's ands or buts.If I was you starting off I would by a complete rifle from a respectible dealer.Go with either Bushmaster{my personal pick} or Armalite.

Posted: 5/3/2001 12:37:03 PM EDT

[#5]

i would buy a postban first, then when you are fully addicted, look for a deal on a preban.

With a preban you can get a collaspable stock, you can have the bayonet lug, you can do anything with it except convert to full auto. These are nice but expensive.

You can get Preban mags and use them in any weapon, this includes the Beta C drum mag....hehe. There are alot of places where u can get custom uppers, all the way from 22 caliber to 50ae (desert eagle)...to large rifle cartridges....so many things can be done. I like colt and bushmaster, never played with a armelite. I had an olympic arms, wont ever make that mistake again.

Well that is my .02 worth, keep hanging around and you will learn alot, i have, and still am..

love2shoot

Posted: 5/3/2001 12:46:36 PM EDT

[#6]

I know I keep beating this drum, but I think the first step is deciding just what you want to do with it. The analogy would be my coming to you and saying, "I want a car, what should I get?" You know what you'd ask before you gave me any direction.
There are several degrees of competition, collecting, plinking, building and accurizing...not to mention posing your girlfriend with 'em. Give us some particulars.

Posted: 5/3/2001 12:51:31 PM EDT

[#7]

I would also start with a postban, like I did.

So on to your questions:

NEED: Iron Sights ( either an A2 or A3 that has the front sight post mounted ), USGI magazines, coated or flexible rod cleaning kit for the rifle, maintenance manual.

WANT: Chrome barrel ( longer life, higher velocity, easier to clean ), Chrome chamber ( gun is more reliable ), 20" barrel ( most versatile, works for self-defense, plinking, long range and short range shooting ), sling

WOULD BE NICE: another m4 upper, ACOG sight

Take a look at www.bushmaster.com to find everything I am talking about except for the high-cap USGI magazines.

As far as a brand goes, the only three that give you what I listed are Armalite (www.armalite.com), bushmaster (www.bushmaster.com), colt (www.colt.com). Personally I would stick with Armalite or Bushmaster because they have better prices, better service, and you are more likely to get all the features listed above. Don't get me wrong, colt is good, but they are talking about not having chrome lined barrels and their customer service is the pits.

Posted: 5/3/2001 6:03:05 PM EDT

[#8]

I see you are from Illinois. If you want some good hands on experience & alot of info on AR15's & other weapons, come to Buffalo range over by Ottowa IL. on May 27th. There will be quite a few people from here & other boards having a shoot-fest of sorts. It's always a great time with great people & lots of chow.
There is more info in the meetings & events forum.

COLTSHORTY

GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted
and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do
these things to other people and I require
the same from them."

Posted: 5/3/2001 6:41:11 PM EDT

[#9]

i ruse Norinco, chek itout

Posted: 5/3/2001 11:21:07 PM EDT

[#10]

What part of Illinois are you located check local laws before you can purchase AR type weapons because you mentioned you grew up in the city, If you're talking about Chicago you cannot own an AR type rifle it is illegal there, even owning a handgun you have to register them with the city of Chicago. And also it's Illegal to own in Aurora, IL as well.

Posted: 5/4/2001 5:48:50 AM EDT

[#11]

I guess I should have told you guys what I intend to do with it. I was wanting to use it for accurate distance shooting, I guess sharpshooting, but I really like the AR style rifles and someone mentioned to me that they are (or can be) extremely accurate. Plus I also like the versatility in the rifle, in that I can do more with it than a bolt-action Robar or something similar. Also, I just moved to Illinois, and I live way south of Chicago in the 'burbs. From what I've been able to find out, they are perfectly legal, I just need to register with the state as a gun owner.

Posted: 5/4/2001 5:55:22 AM EDT

[#12]

Also, is it possible to get an AR in left-handed configuration? The only thing I've come close to finding is a deflector for the casings.

Posted: 5/4/2001 5:56:51 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I guess I should have told you guys what I intend to do with it. I was wanting to use it for accurate distance shooting, I guess sharpshooting, but I really like the AR style rifles and someone mentioned to me that they are (or can be) extremely accurate. .

View Quote

For the BEST accuracy, you'll want a 24" bull barrel, but ONLY if you will be primarily bench resting, due to weight considerations.

A step down in weight from that will be a 24" fluted heavy barrel. or a stainless barrel.

DEFINATELY stay with a postban.

If you are gonna scope this thing, you want a flattop. The carryhandle just puts a scope up too high above the barrel IMO.

Keep feeding the questions, and we'll get ya there.

Posted: 5/4/2001 5:58:02 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I guess I should have told you guys what I intend to do with it. I was wanting to use it for accurate distance shooting, I guess sharpshooting, but I really like the AR style rifles and someone mentioned to me that they are (or can be) extremely accurate. .

View Quote

For the BEST accuracy, you'll want a 24" bull barrel, but ONLY if you will be primarily bench resting, due to weight considerations.

A step down in weight from that will be a 24" fluted heavy barrel. or a stainless barrel.

DEFINATELY stay with a postban.

If you are gonna scope this thing, you want a flattop. The carryhandle just puts a scope up too high above the barrel IMO.

Keep feeding the questions, and we'll get ya there.

Posted: 5/4/2001 6:00:19 AM EDT

[#15]

well then, you could get a bushmaster 20" match. I haven't been to the Bushmaster sight in awhile, cant remember if they have a Stainless steel bbl option or not, that should get you started. you will probably want to eventually get free floating hand guards...just how accurate do you wanna get, you want a space gun? something that will do like 1/2 moa...? There are a few people on this sight that have built those up. I will do that to eventually, gotta get my tromix 50AE upper first. You might also want to find a good book. I just ordered "Black Magic" (by john Feamster) from him directly, $30.95 signed. Wish i could of picked it up and met him, he does not live far from me, but are schedules dont allow it, and i will soon be leaving for AZ for finall time. This is my .02 worth, there are people here who could give you alot more info then i can..

Love2shoot

Posted: 5/4/2001 6:08:25 AM EDT

[#16]

I don't really need a "space gun" but I wouldn't mind soupin' up the gun so that it was 1/2 MOA--but that would be a long term goal. I really want to get started in the AR style rifles, and as I improve in my shooting (the only rifle I've ever shot is an Enfield .303 as a child) then I'll worry about that kind of dead-on accuracy.

Posted: 5/4/2001 10:03:11 AM EDT

[#17]

Alright, I'm pretty sure that I know what are some of the major features and brands to look at. Now, I've been looking at AR's online for two days straight now and I've found a few things and want to know if any has any opinion on them, has heard of them, etc. First, I found a company online that can gunsmith a muzzle brake onto a postban barrel, is this something I need, or are these types of muzzle brakes even effective or good on my barrel? The company is Wilson Combat. Also, they sell complete rifles, though I've never heard anyone mention their name--I'm assuming for good reason. So I think I'm going to go with either the Bushmaster (for reputation) or possibly the Oly (for affordability reasons). Also, I have found a couple of websites offering a "Z-Plate" or "Armor Tuff" coating for rifles--is there anything to this, or is it unnecessary?

Posted: 5/4/2001 10:10:45 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
First, I found a company online that can gunsmith a muzzle brake onto a postban barrel, is this something I need, or are these types of muzzle brakes even effective or good on my barrel? The company is Wilson Combat. Also, they sell complete rifles, though I've never heard anyone mention their name--I'm assuming for good reason.

So I think I'm going to go with either the Bushmaster (for reputation) or possibly the Oly (for affordability reasons). Also, I have found a couple of websites offering a "Z-Plate" or "Armor Tuff" coating for rifles--is there anything to this, or is it unnecessary?

View Quote

re: muzzle brakes -

With the shakings going on at ATF right now, i would stay away from muzzle brakes. Also, if you are going to be doing competetive shooting, or bench resting with other people around, the muzzle blast they will receive is substantial and often frowned upon.

Actually, Wilson Combat has a fairly good reputation.

re: Bushy / Oly -

Oly's barrels are superior. But some people don't like Oly lowers, so you may want to go with a Bushy complete lower. Slapping the Oly upper on a Bushy lower is a breeze. five seconds tops, and thats even if you catch a 3 second drag off your cigarette [:D]

Armor Plate / Z Tuff - gimmicks in my opinion. I know they call 'em "tack drivers," but I wouldn't be banging home 16 penny nails with 'em. [;)]

Posted: 5/5/2001 11:14:55 AM EDT

[#19]

Guys, thanks for all your help. I had pretty much come to the bushmaster/Oly combo idea on my own, just from what I have learned online and at the different websites--so it was nice to have that confirmed. I noticed, with the options I want, that the Oly upper, brand new, is $774.00. That's fine. However, I checked on a bushmaster lower, and they don't list prices online--since it has to ship to FFL. So what am I looking to spend on a Bushmaster? Also, USGI and Thermold mags are the ones to go with? What do those run?

Kevin

Posted: 5/5/2001 1:45:25 PM EDT

[#20]

It has been mentioned before but,

Have you looked at the Limited Edition Rock River Arms Rifle.
$660 delivered.

[beer]

Posted: 5/6/2001 5:25:31 AM EDT

[#21]

Thanks for all your help guys, but I still need a left-handed receiver, which is apparently really rare-does anyone know where to find one?

Posted: 5/6/2001 5:45:35 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Thanks for all your help guys, but I still need a left-handed receiver, which is apparently really rare-does anyone know where to find one?

View Quote

Try DPMS at www.dpmsinc.com
Look for southpaw A2 receiver listed under Upper Receiver Upgrades. Never seen one personally, but supposed to be a mirror image of mil-spec A2 upper receiver.

Posted: 5/6/2001 5:50:27 AM EDT

[#23]

left handed recivers, as you mentioned are extreemly rare. i know they exist, but have never seen one. if you insist on this option, BE PREPAIRED TO HAVE IT SPECIALLY MADE, witch will cost a fortune, and will have many specialised parts witch you wont be able to find if a repair is nessesary. i would say get the deflector for now.

as already mentioned go for the oly/bushy combo, cant be beat. and for yore stated reasons a post ban is more than adequet.

usgi mags are gonna cost you around 15$+- to 20$
depending on quality and remaining finish. i dont deal with any other types, except for real high capacity (120 rd. drum).

Posted: 5/6/2001 5:51:24 AM EDT

[#24]

btw wealcome to the club.

Posted: 5/7/2001 9:56:35 AM EDT

[#25]

Thanks for all your help guys--I guess I will with the deflector, I don't want to have a rifle I can't get parts for. So I'll go with the deflector, also I found that Bushmaster sells an ambidextrous safety lever, and I found an ambidextrous magazine release on another website. Looks like I'm all set for my first AR. Thanks again for all your help!

Posted: 5/7/2001 6:21:27 PM EDT

[#26]

One last question. What about scopes/optics? What are brands to stay away from? What are brands that will pass? What are better brands? What are great brands? And what am I lookin' to spend on that?

Posted: 5/8/2001 7:35:24 PM EDT

[#27]

not a big scope man myself, but there will likely be a bunch in the accesories for sale forum. go for the well known names, there usually best (unless there notoriuose).

Posted: 5/8/2001 9:15:58 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Thanks for all your help guys--I guess I will with the deflector, I don't want to have a rifle I can't get parts for. So I'll go with the deflector, also I found that Bushmaster sells an ambidextrous safety lever, and I found an ambidextrous magazine release on another website. Looks like I'm all set for my first AR. Thanks again for all your help!

View Quote

One last thing, inquire about the Oly Ultramatch upper/bbl. It is made specifically for accuracy. I have two and know of several others. Mine has shot 1/2" 200 yard groups with handloads and perfect conditions (please don't make me prove it--ha! But you get the idea). The Oly lowers (as in complete rifles) I know of have been flawless. I do not understand all the bitching here about Oly. I had a Uniroyal tire with a "slipped" belt one time--about 20 years ago. I guess that means they can't build a good tire. Sheesh. Good luck--and welcome!!

I just noticed your scope question. For not too much money you can get a Leupold. They are tough to beat. I especially like the 3.5-10 X50mm or 4.5-14 X 50mm. Millet high rings will place it perfectly above the receiver/bbl., while allowing room for Butler Creek scope caps. The 50mm objective (front) lens nearly allows you to see in the dark. There are many cheaper scopes and some much more costly. The above scopes are about $450.00 in Shotgun News.

Posted: 5/8/2001 9:52:50 PM EDT

[#29]

Dude, go to the LEGP page and look at all the sweet accessories you can get with the rifle. Just get the LEGP. Do it.

NSF

Posted: 5/16/2001 6:52:49 AM EDT

[#30]

I've got another question! For accuracy purposes, do I want a bull barrel? Or are they too heavy, thus reducing the versatility of the rifle?

C'mon, just one little ole answer. . .Please!

Posted: 5/26/2001 6:37:59 AM EDT

[#31]

I swear this is the last question [see above, concerning the bull barrel]. If you guys will answer this one, I'll leave you alone.

Posted: 5/26/2001 7:18:56 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I found that Bushmaster sells an ambidextrous safety lever

View Quote

I highly recommend the ambi-safety and is well worth the extra cost, at least to me. I have one for my AR. It is very quick to de-activate, and you know in an instant what position the safety is in because you can feel the lever with your right index finger in the fire position.

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