No. Let it go.

Well and good. Please, explain the bronze casket and the shipping casket and the body bag at
Bethesda naval hospital since you seem to have all the answers concerning .gov conspiracies.
Can you refute the evidence in David S Lifton's Best Evidence with credible evidence? If so, publish it, you will be an overnight best seller.

No. Normally I'm all for forcing the government to be as transparent as reasonably possible. But the country is already experiencing enough unrest and doubt right now as it is. Whatever's in those files is probably better off sealed away.

At least until society has gotten a little more stable.

See my post, i address it.

Vincent bugliosi best me to the punch, and had an international bestseller, and it SMASHES liftons nonsense.  Do yourself a favor and read Reclaiming History.  He destroys the conspiracy nonsense.  

There is no "evidence" in liftons book, only a claim that the casket was left unattended ( it wasnt) and the rank speculation that while it was unattended, the body was removed and it was hidden inside AF 1 and surgically modified mid flight to make it look like he was shot from the rear, then taken off af 1 and flown to Bethesda.  Of course, this necessarily admits the autopsy findings are correct, or rather that they support a hit from the rear, if only because of the wacky surgery on jfk to remove the "real" bullets and replace them with fragments of bullets fired from oswalds gun.  He did find what he thinks are tidbits in the record thst support that his theory might be plausible, but no evidence that it is so.  

Lifton is not a doctor, and no doctor supports his claim that this could even be done, in fact, Cyril Wecht, who is a conspiracy fan, says liftons theory is impossible.  Lifton, a non medically trained layman, claims that it is possible to reconfigure a dead body to make it look like it was shot frim the rear when it was actually shot from the front.  He has no doctor on his side to say thats even theoretically possible, let alone that it happened here, and i have a conspiracy beleiving forensic pathologist, Wecht, who says its not possible.  

And there was no body bag, thats just false. Jfk was wrapped in two sheets, and the casket was accompanied the entire time from parkland to bethesda.  

Now, you stated several reasons for your belief.  I erased all of those but lifton, assuming you dont buy the above, but certainly the nonsense about the limo and the red herring of the brain.

And, in typical conspiracy fan fashion, you pointed somewhere else.

Seriously, if a rational person says i believe something because of a, b, and c, al of which are true, and someone demonstrates that a and b are in fact false, a rational person revisits their belief.  You didnt.  Why is that?

I guess the fact that the story line that a lone wolf could pull off the hit of the century is so hard to believe. If there is nothing to hide, roll it all out there and let us see it. Don't redact anything in the documentation and lay it one the line. If reputations or image get tarnished so be it. All of the major players are dead.
BTW:  When you get right down to the brass tacks of JFK, RFK, MLK, Ruby Ridge, Waco and OKC it's he said, she said. We will never know for sure, will we? There are too many asses to cover and too much money to be made on both sides. The sheep don't care anyway.

Hell yes

1) Who fucking cares?
2) I highly doubt they will find anything interesting.

I think some people have misread this as a re-opening of the investigation. It's not, it's just declassifying files. I say do it, I think Oswald acted alone.

YES, absolutely.

Yes... but:
From what I understand much of the critical data has been missing for decades. Not much to work with...

NO ,,  we all know that Bush and the CIA did the work for LBJ

STOP SHOUTING......USING ALL CAPS

No.

The fact that everyone involved in the case is dead, strongly indicates that Oswald acted alone. How come there haven't been any dying declarations from any of the conspirators?

He values his life too much. Probably will never cross his mind. GD subject fodder at best.

Sure. Why not? No harm and there may be info to learn.

Yes, then close them when he finds out the truth. Same with alien, dinosaur, and bigfoot files

NO!

I was in the 3rd grade when JFK was shot and I could take early retirement in October.
YES, it is time for all the BS to come to an end.
Release everything. Remove all redactions. State who destroyed what documents.
Just bring it to a close and move on.
Fuck.
Tired of the Kennedy's. Show that Jackie was screwing around with Jackie O' while he was banging Marilyn Monroe. Tired of the (D)'s holding them up like some deity. Show that they were just trailer park trash with $$$$$. and move the fuck on.

Attached File


IBTP on pg2

9/11 taught me that conspiracy mongers are useless and dangerous crackpots. If you don't have proof of wild assertions, STFU. "I'm just asking questions." Well, life is messy, sometimes chaotic, and things fall apart. Real life doesn't follow neat scripts or rules. I used to subscribe to JFK wild stories. 9/11 taught me a lesson, when people started denying what happened, despite witnesses who reported it. "I'm just asking questions." No, you're just being dense. Or an ass.

IRS weaponization

F&F

EPA

NSA

BATFE

No

He should open the Clinton files though.

I say yes, and it really has nothing to do with Trump, it is just a time frame no matter who is president

we have the right to know the truth, and I also think it might implicate lbj

You can open them all day long but that doesn't mean you won't come to the same conclusion because
1. the Warren Commission is the truth
2. there are those who will never allow the truth to become common knowledge because their kind is still among us hard at work destroying us.

The last gasp of the conspiracy fan is "we will never know for sure".

Yes, we will.   History is necessarily he said, she said.  But im confident we landed at Normandy, even though the winner gets to write history and i wasnt there

Its clear you're totally unfamiliar with the facts.  You still havent responded rationally to the information, new to you, that the limo wasnt shadily "sanitized and crushed".  That was important to you as evidence of your theory, and it was 100% false.  I proved it false, and you switched to "we will never know for sure".  Thats 1)lazy, or 2) crazy.

You really should read Bugliosi's book.  We DO know, far beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Oswald fired the shots, and that no one else hit the president thst day.  There is a mountain of evidence pointing directly to Oswald and no one else. And its not the government telling me that, its forensic pathologists, trauma surgeons, photographic experts, ballistic experts, etc.

Oswald did many things that only a guilty man would do. And lifton devotes a total of SIX PAGES of his extensive book to any discussion of Oswald. Did you know he tried to assasinate General Walker in March 1963, and that Marina found a notebook detailing the plan afterwards, that the bullet fragments at Walkers residence matched the fragments found in the limo and the Parkland bullet, that they found photographs of Walkers house in Oswalds effects taken by the same camera that took the baclyard photos to the exclusion of all other cameras, that Marina says she took those backyard photos, and that a copy of one of those photos was found in the effects of a friend of Oswalds when he died in the 1970s, with an inscription written by oswald that said "killer of fascists, ha, ha, ha"?

Did you know that Oswald was so fucked up that when Marina heard on TV that the presidents motorcade was shot at, she panicked and ran to the garage to try to make sure his rifle was where he kept it?  Imagine that, his own wife, who knows him better than Lifton or Mark Lane, or any conspiratard hustler pushing a book, knew, instantly, that he was capable of this crime.  

And his rifle wasnt in that garage, (although she found the folded blanket where he kept it and assumed it was there, she never picked it up) because for the first and only time, Oswald showed up, unannounced, during the week to spend the last night before the president was shot with his wife at the Paine boarding house.  He went without calling ahead, because he didnt want o be told not to come, because he needed to pick up the rifle. And when he left in the morning, he left his wedding band and about $172 dollars cash, a fortune to the tightwad Oswald, in a coffee cup in Marinas room.  And he carried a long brown paper package to work THAT DAY, which was seen and quesioned by the guy he rode to work, and that guys sister, and oswald claimed it was curtain rods.  Except there were no curtain rods in Paines garage to paines knowledge, no missing curtain rods, oswalds boarding room already had curtains hanging, and no curtain rods were found anywhere at the TSBD.  He hurried in to the building ahead of his ride, something he also had never done before, and disappeared.  Although the rods were never found, brown paper packaging was found on the sixth floor, wih oswalds prints on it.  And his rifle was hidden on six, and his personal clipboard with all of his work orders for the day, showing that he did no work that day, as with none filled.  He was the last employee above the fifth floor before the motorcade, and he yelled down, twice, for the other guys to send the elevator back up when they left to watch the motorcade.

And he fled the scene after the shooting, walked nine blocks and took a bus, where a former landlady recognized him, abandoned the bus because of traffic, caught a cab and lied to the cabbie about his address, retrieved a jacket and a revolver, and eventually murdered dallas pd patrol officer tippet, who had heard the broadcast of oswalds description taken from someone who saw him in the window with a rifle.  He killled Tippet in front of about 12 people who saw some or all of the shooting, including some who pointed to where he had shaken out the empties.

Then he fled on foot again ( oswald didnt know how to drive, some highly trained assassin) and was so conspicous in ducking into a store front when a cop car went by that he caught the eye of a shoe store manager, who folowed him to the texas theater, where he entered without paying.   The theater called the cops, and when they showed up he pulled the revolver and tried to shoot them.  

In custody, Oswald insisted he was a "patsy", and conspiracy fans have decided that this ONE accused guy was telling the truth when he said it, but all the others in history are lying.  Oswald lied, too.   He denied owning any firearms, despite the fact that he was arrested trying to use one on the cops aresting him.

Oswald did it, and rational people familiar with the facts know he did it.

Nobody will believe whatever is released, so why bother?

I have always been concerned with whether or not Oswald had people who he conspired with in "the backroom" so to speak to carry out his murder.

Also, now that you mention it, I have seen that limo at the museum.........I had forgotten about that.

No.  The truth could still be too painful for the country.  Records sealed for 75 years.. Do the math.

We certainly have a Bugliosi fan in the thread.
I'm really enjoying his book.
I particularly like how V.B. criticizes other authors for choosing to believe a witness because the witness's statement supports the author's theory and proceeds to engage in the exact same behavior.

There's a word for that ...

Thats the only wiggle room.   Maybe someone put him up to it.   But he certainly didnt have help doing it, because he walked away from the crime of the century.  Nine blocks.  To me, that destroyed the possibility that Ruby killing him was to silence him.  If they were worried about that, they would have given him a ride to the airport, and we would never have seen him again, or, "given him a ride to the airport" and buried the body somewhere, and we never would have seen him again.  Either way, if it was so important thst they needed to kill him, he never would have been left ot walk away from the crime.  

But the Warren Commision was able to track his finances to within something like $48 from the time he came back from Russia.  He certainly didnt get any money for his efforts.  

But, yes, i agree that we cannot know what motovated him.  He might have had enocuragement.

A few weeks before JFK is assassinated, he authors EO 11110 attempting to sneakily destroy the Federal Reserve.

Then he is killed.  

B team is installed, and the first thing they do is undo the EO.

Perhaps President Trump should just write the same EO and see what happens.

I know he lays Mark Lanes ham handed tactics bare.  Lane clearly tried to get witnesses to say what he wanted rather than the truth, trying to lead them to say the shooter was "bushy" as an example, and being shut down.

Do you have a specific example?  Its been years since i read it.  I am an attorney, and deal with witnesses every day, and the book didn't strike me that way.

When I found out he murdered Officer Tippet I knew he was guilty.

Whether other people were complicit in helping him behind the scenes..........................

ETA:  Although self serving obviously, Oswald said "I am a patsy"..........so that possibly could have meant they left him out to dry and that is why they didn't get him out of there.............but I have no idea one way or the other on that one..........just a thought................

Let the public see all the files.

I take a different view on these things and I may get some crap for this but I do think that Oswald was put up to it by Carlos Marcello. I also feel that beacuse the Kennedy brothers went after Marcello with the illegal deportation, they started to play out of their league.  They made that personal, instead of business. These things happen.

I'm with you.

I was an attorney for decades. I know exactly what he did and why he did it.
Perhaps you're not familiar enough with the subject to know what he left out of his recitation of the "facts".
He left out everything which would tend to call his position into question.
For some attorneys that's SOP for an argument in court. It's not very effective if the goal is to "reclaim history", especially if the target audience knows the subject matter.

He didn't manage to get past the introduction without criticizing Posner (correctly, of course) for engaging in that behavior.
He would have been smarter to leave that comment out.

What was Bugliosi"s theory on this murder?

Yes.

Of course when the files show nothing new everyone will still scream 'Cover up' rather than realize the conspiracy theories were much more interesting than the truth.

Perhaps I'm unfamiar?   No, I'm familiar with the subject.  perhaps im just not sophisticated in how attorneys operate to have spotted his scheme?

If you have substance in mind, please list it.  Generalities like those you referenced are meaningless.

Ive read the warren commission abstract, posners book, and buglioisis book.

Do you deny that the physical evidence, which isnt dependent on eyewitneses, points directly and only to Oswald?  Or that in the mock trial, Gerry Spence lost and Oswald was convicted?    

Do you disagree with his premise?

Oswald was the lone shooter, had no help, and if oswald would have lived, hed have been convicted formthis murder.

Thanks for the info.

Yes.

Wish they would ban a member who uses all caps or at least lock the thread.

That is my answer.

I don't think there s a conspiracy theorist alive who doesn't believe that last part.

Although the body being removed from the state and the autopsy not being performed by anyone with a Texas license reduced the charges to attempted murder of Connolly and discharge of a firearm in the city, plus the Tibbets murder. No federal laws were violated that day