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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:54:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That way of looking at the issue is muddled and it's by design, my way aligns like with like much more reliably. Ideologies on opposite ends of the spectrum should be opposites, as much as possible. Hell the Political Compass is too simple. There you got Economic and Social Control axes and it isn't enough. You are making the typical Libertarian mistake and reducing everything to economics. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:55:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Join date?
Post count? I'm impressed by your dedication. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:56:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only if you disagree.. right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fascism, like all totalitarian ideologies, is bad / evil. I'll shoot you in the face if you try to make that reality though, just fair warning. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:56:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, there is no significant Fascist movement in the US, but it is a boogeyman word that the far left have decided to use because they have gotten so little traction when using the term Nazi, at one time calling someone a Nazi was attention getting, but they have over used it to the point where pop culture uses the term to describe an asshole deli employee, so Fascism it is. . When that wears off they will think of something else. One of my Bernie supporting peers was lecturing me after the election on how Trump was a true fascist. He couldn't tell me exactly what that meant. Go figure. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:57:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Impossible, there is too much diversity in political thought to have an ideology be simply "Left or Right". Hell the Political Compass is too simple. There you got Economic and Social Control axes and it isn't enough. You are making the typical Libertarian mistake and reducing everything to economics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That way of looking at the issue is muddled and it's by design, my way aligns like with like much more reliably. Ideologies on opposite ends of the spectrum should be opposites, as much as possible. Hell the Political Compass is too simple. There you got Economic and Social Control axes and it isn't enough. You are making the typical Libertarian mistake and reducing everything to economics. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:57:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We ain't facists. Quick guide. Capitalist: Private ownership of the means of production. Fascist: Private ownership with government control of the means of production. Communist: Government ownership of the means of production. And from my understanding, the gov't control of businesses and employers (the means of production) is what fascism uses to micromanage every aspect of the individual's life. Understand that the political "spectrum" is actually a circle. Any time you go to far in one direction you end up with tyranny, only the means and justifications are different. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:57:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That isn't correct either. Facism can be nationalistc or not. Spain was facist for decades. Not all nationalism is facistic either. All of these modern amended definitions of facism try to place The Nazi reich as being the prototypical definition of a facist state, when it is far from the idealization of a facist state. Mussolini said that facism should be more correctly called "corporatism" as it was the merger of corporation and government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So googling the word and using their skewed 'faux definition' is research? LoLoLazy you are Try this ACTUAL definition on for size.... fascism 1: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control It was totalitarian, but Franco was not really a Phalangist. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:58:47 PM EDT
[#8]
"Taken in full historical context, with full consideration of philosophic principle, socialism and fascism are essentially the same."
Here's why. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 6:58:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey man, if you're legit and you think an all powerful government that makes its citizens slaves to the state isn't a bad thing then good for you. I'll shoot you in the face if you try to make that reality though, just fair warning. 2. Reported 
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:03:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only if you disagree.. right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fascism, like all totalitarian ideologies, is bad / evil. Then you are evil too. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:04:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. So tolerant of you 2. Reported Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey man, if you're legit and you think an all powerful government that makes its citizens slaves to the state isn't a bad thing then good for you. I'll shoot you in the face if you try to make that reality though, just fair warning. 2. Reported |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:05:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey man, if you're legit and you think an all powerful government that makes its citizens slaves to the state isn't a bad thing then good for you. I'll shoot you in the face if you try to make that reality though, just fair warning. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fascism, like all totalitarian ideologies, is bad / evil. I'll shoot you in the face if you try to make that reality though, just fair warning. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:05:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Crushing individual liberty in order to exult the State is evil even if you agree with it. Then you are evil too. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:09:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Need a spotter? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:09:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Franco's Spain was "Francoist". It was totalitarian, but Franco was not really a Phalangist. The Spanish Falange was based in facism though. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:14:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My spectrum is better, if my spectrum is to be thrown aside then the spectrum as conventionally taught should definitely be thrown aside. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:14:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The private ownership of production is why fascism is labeled a right wing form of tyranny. And from my understanding, the gov't control of businesses and employers (the means of production) is what fascism uses to micromanage every aspect of the individual's life. Understand that the political "spectrum" is actually a circle. Any time you go to far in one direction you end up with tyranny, only the means and justifications are different. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:15:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no capitalism in fascism. Corporations are created by, and ruled over by government. Everything, and I mean everything, is to work towards the states ends. No thanks. That definition is (probably intentionally) broad. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:22:54 PM EDT
[#19]
IIRC fascists believe in the "third position" or something like that, meaning they are both anti-capitalist and anti-socialist.
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:22:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Taken in full historical context, with full consideration of philosophic principle, socialism and fascism are essentially the same." Here's why. It's hard for certain people to comprehend that socialism and fascism are fruit of the same totalitarian tree. It's really that simple. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:26:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Facism can be nationalistc or not..... The M-W definition doesn't say otherwise, did you even bother to read it? Or are you also a WikiU graduate? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:28:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure ok, using that definition again I ask... what's so wrong? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:31:58 PM EDT
[#23]
We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunities for employment and earning a living.The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and for the good of all. Therefore, we demand:...an end to the power of the financial interests.We demand profit sharing in big business.We demand a broad extension of care for the aged.We demand...the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state and municipal governments.In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education...We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents...The government must undertake the improvement of public health -- by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth.[We] combat the...materialistic spirit withn and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of The Common Good Before the Individual Good .
Interesting... those fascists are such bad people ETA lol fucking phone |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:32:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boom shakalaka. Good article. It's hard for certain people to comprehend that socialism and fascism are fruit of the same totalitarian tree. It's really that simple. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Taken in full historical context, with full consideration of philosophic principle, socialism and fascism are essentially the same." Here's why. It's hard for certain people to comprehend that socialism and fascism are fruit of the same totalitarian tree. It's really that simple. 
Socialism is mostly economic, you can have Right Wing Socialism or Left Wing Socialism. Socialism is not totalitarian by nature, its just economics, designed to decrease human suffering, whether it actually does or not is up for debate. Of course most folks ITT think Nazism and Fascism is the same thing so I shouldn't be surprised. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:38:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunities for employment and earning a living.The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and for the good of all. Therefore, we demand:...an end to the power of the financial interests.We demand profit sharing in big business.We demand a broad extension of care for the aged.We demand...the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state and municipal governments.In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education...We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents...The government must undertake the improvement of public health -- by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth.[We] combat the...materialistic spirit withn and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of The Common Good Before the Individual Good . Interesting... those fascists are such bad people ETA lol fucking phone |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:40:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really, the Randroids will yell Hallelujah! and the few of us who don't pay at the shrine of Galt will be
Socialism is mostly economic, you can have Right Wing Socialism or Left Wing Socialism. Socialism is not totalitarian by nature, its just economics, designed to decrease human suffering, whether it actually does or not is up for debate. Of course most folks ITT think Nazism and Fascism is the same thing so I shouldn't be surprised. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:40:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really, the Randroids will yell Hallelujah! and the few of us who don't pay at the shrine of Galt will be
Socialism is mostly economic, you can have Right Wing Socialism or Left Wing Socialism. Socialism is not totalitarian by nature, its just economics, designed to decrease human suffering, whether it actually does or not is up for debate. Of course most folks ITT think Nazism and Fascism is the same thing so I shouldn't be surprised. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Taken in full historical context, with full consideration of philosophic principle, socialism and fascism are essentially the same." Here's why. It's hard for certain people to comprehend that socialism and fascism are fruit of the same totalitarian tree. It's really that simple.
Socialism is mostly economic, you can have Right Wing Socialism or Left Wing Socialism. Socialism is not totalitarian by nature, its just economics, designed to decrease human suffering, whether it actually does or not is up for debate. Of course most folks ITT think Nazism and Fascism is the same thing so I shouldn't be surprised. If you don't control a population economically, then you don't actually control them at all. Real power comes from the ability to control resources and what all of these people are after is power, regardless of what name they hide behind. All of the social issues, the rebranding and mixing of old ideas and new strategies, it's all a smoke screen for gaining more power, more control, which means they need to control the economy. Social issues are tools to get control of people's money and labor. What's your beef with Objectivism exactly, if I may ask? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:41:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Considering that's from the actual NSDAP (you know, the motherfucking Nazis) 1920 party platform then yeah I can safely and unequivocally say that they were indeed really bad people. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:41:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really, the Randroids will yell Hallelujah! and the few of us who don't pay at the shrine of Galt will be
Socialism is mostly economic, you can have Right Wing Socialism or Left Wing Socialism. Socialism is not totalitarian by nature, its just economics, designed to decrease human suffering, whether it actually does or not is up for debate. Of course most folks ITT think Nazism and Fascism is the same thing so I shouldn't be surprised. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Taken in full historical context, with full consideration of philosophic principle, socialism and fascism are essentially the same." Here's why. It's hard for certain people to comprehend that socialism and fascism are fruit of the same totalitarian tree. It's really that simple.
Socialism is mostly economic, you can have Right Wing Socialism or Left Wing Socialism. Socialism is not totalitarian by nature, its just economics, designed to decrease human suffering, whether it actually does or not is up for debate. Of course most folks ITT think Nazism and Fascism is the same thing so I shouldn't be surprised. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:42:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Holy fuck. Your entire response to "Authoritarian" is "like a king?".
That's so fucking retarded I literally don't know where to begin. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:46:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy fuck. Your entire response to "Authoritarian" is "like a king?". That's so fucking retarded I literally don't know where to begin. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:46:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The expressed virtue of socialism is the destruction of the bourgeoise, of course it's totalitarian Some hold that Socialism is step on the road to Communism (mostly people on the extremes (free-marketeers/communists) but I believe reality has buried this notion, in that every currently functioning Western Government has some form of Socialism and none are Communists. I mean look at Europe. Decades of Socialism, no Communism (after the Fall of the USSR). EDIT: Believe it or not, I'm pretty well read, from Neo-Monarchists, to Communists, to Facists, to Rand... its way more complicated than even I can get a handle on. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:48:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No that's the expressed goal of COMMUNISM. Socialism's goal to minimize human suffering using economics. Some hold that Socialism is step on the road to Communism (mostly people on the extremes (free-marketeers/communists) but I believe reality has buried this notion, in that every currently functioning Western Government has some form of Socialism and none are Communists. I mean look at Europe. Decades of Socialism, no Communism (after the Fall of the USSR). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The expressed virtue of socialism is the destruction of the bourgeoise, of course it's totalitarian Some hold that Socialism is step on the road to Communism (mostly people on the extremes (free-marketeers/communists) but I believe reality has buried this notion, in that every currently functioning Western Government has some form of Socialism and none are Communists. I mean look at Europe. Decades of Socialism, no Communism (after the Fall of the USSR). Do you believe it's a moral system? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:49:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No that's the expressed goal of COMMUNISM. Socialism's goal to minimize human suffering using economics. Some hold that Socialism is step on the road to Communism (mostly people on the extremes (free-marketeers/communists) but I believe reality has buried this notion, in that every currently functioning Western Government has some form of Socialism and none are Communists. I mean look at Europe. Decades of Socialism, no Communism (after the Fall of the USSR). EDIT: Believe it or not, I'm pretty well read, from Neo-Monarchists, to Communists, to Facists, to Rand... its way more complicated than even I can get a handle on. In the end we need more conservatism, a strong charismatic leader, and less suffrage. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:51:35 PM EDT
[#35]
I'm down with genociding trolls. Does that make me a fascist?
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:52:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunities for employment and earning a living.The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and for the good of all. Therefore, we demand:...an end to the power of the financial interests.We demand profit sharing in big business.We demand a broad extension of care for the aged.We demand...the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state and municipal governments.In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education...We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents...The government must undertake the improvement of public health -- by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth.[We] combat the...materialistic spirit withn and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of The Common Good Before the Individual Good . Interesting... those fascists are such bad people ETA lol fucking phone
WTF...a right wing socialists is still a commy by any real measure! |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:53:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats because it's all a label. In the end we need more conservatism, a strong charismatic leader, and less suffrage. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:54:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Socially fascism is far right because it fetishizes tradition.
It continually makes reference to a lowest common denominator national identity steeped in tradition be it real or made up. Often it is an ethno-national identity. I.e. "real Americans" are a certain kind of people, right? It has romantic revitalization-ist overtones in virtually every case. Bringing back past glory (often represented in mythical tales) is often a focus. A very basal construct of masculinity is also a focus - enemies are girly men/cucks, adherents are real men. Fascists tend to see enemies everywhere, despoilers of the once pure and glorious ethno-national culture. They often refer to people they disagree with as traitors. War and conflict are essential. Without the struggle, there is no identity, meaning, or romantic glory, and it would collapse under the weight of its own incoherence. Economically it generally tends toward socialism in its historical examples. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:55:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Up until very recently (and I mean VERY) fascism was a leftist ideology. They relabeled it to make it a right wing culture. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:55:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude ofc the nazis were bad... but the quotes section is the articles definition of fascism You can't come out with a blanket assertion that since socialists don't like fascists then fascism might not be so bad. It doesn't work like that because it's not a black and white division between the two, or even between those two and full on communism as practiced by the Soviets. You can't have Hitler without Mussolini, and you can't have Mussolini without Marx; they're all inbred branches of the same twisted tree. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:56:50 PM EDT
[#41]
To them, up is down and down is right.
All the more reason you should be increasingly skeptical of things you read online, print I like. Print is solid and not as easily changed. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:57:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats because it's all a label. In the end we need more conservatism, a strong charismatic leader, and less suffrage. 
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Posted: 4/29/2017 7:57:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Did some research; let's have a discussion. Whats so so wrong with fascism? fas·cism'faSH?iz?m /noun
1. Authoritarian, ok like a king? 2. Nationalistic, I like the sound of that. 3. Right wing, sounds good to me. If you look objectively at our case studies, all nations that were fascist did well internally. So I ask, whats so bad about being fascist? No, no, you got that from Google, didn't you? About the time people started calling Trump fascist, Google changed their definition so that people could call Trump fascist. A more correct definition is: Fascism /'fæ??z?m/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2], characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 8:01:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thats because it's all a label. In the end we need more conservatism, a strong charismatic leader, and less suffrage. "Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome." That's a quote from Heinlein but it's just an adaptation of something that has been known for centuries, you can't let people vote themselves benefits. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 8:02:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Pretty sure you clicked on arfcom by mistake. Stormfront is the site you were looking for.
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Posted: 4/29/2017 8:03:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LoLoLoLazy.... The M-W definition doesn't say otherwise, did you even bother to read it? Or are you also a WikiU graduate? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 8:16:02 PM EDT
[#47]
The issue of fascism and communism is that they are two sides to the same collectivist authoritarian coin. One is nationalist the other is internationalist, both completely distinguishable from the American individual liberty model.
The antifa types are playing alinski tactics of "if you're not with us you're against us" divide and conquer. I'm not a communist or a fascist, let them kill each other for all I care as they are both a threat to the republic. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 8:22:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Authoritarian can go to hell.
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Posted: 4/29/2017 8:25:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you a socialist, do you believe it's a viable long term system? Do you believe it's a moral system? Do I believe in Randian unfettered capitalism? Absolutely Not. Am I a socialist in the terms of a Social Democrat? Nope. Long term I think its really the ONLY solution, and by that I mean, assuming the march of modernity carries on and automation leads to mass unemployment and a post-scarcity economy, the alternatives seem to be Socialism, Communism, or Mass Starvation/Killings. Morally, its wrong to take something from someone to give to someone who didn't earn it. However, I also find the above situation also morally wrong, and feel that enrichment via usury is morally wrong. Basically, socialism isn't perfect or even "good" but it serves a purpose. I think it was actually prevented conditions leading to an honest to god communist revolution, in a few cases as well. ETA: The long and short of it, is that every system you have will work "on paper" (from communism to anarchism to capitalism), but when the human element, our greed and failings are introduced, they fall apart. Communism brings a Stalin or a Mao, Fascism brings Mussolini, Capitalism brings Robber-Barons, Autocracy brings Nero or Louis, and in the end the middle class/working class is crushed, lather, rinse, repeat. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 8:27:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fascists... research Hitler Brown Shirts. You will see the antifa are doing exactly like the Brown Shirts. Violence to intimidate and shut down opposition. |
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