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Link Posted: 4/30/2017 2:48:05 AM EDT
[#1]
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Is this a hit piece against personal accountability?
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To stay above water, many Americans borrowed from banks at usurious interest rates. In 2005, President George W. Bush’s administration made it far more difficult for households to declare bankruptcy and write off debt. Then came the financial crisis, which cost millions of Americans their jobs and homes. When unemployment insurance, designed for short-term bouts of joblessness in a full-employment world, ran out, they were left to fend for themselves, with no safety net (beyond food stamps), while the government bailed out the banks that had caused the crisis.

Is this a hit piece against personal accountability?
Nope, it is a hit piece against fractional reserve banking, and government meddling in practices and protections that took the revolutionary war to establish .

Currency is supposed to be a medium of exchange, that can be written off the books, when it serves the good of the public.

This is a hedge against inflation, as well as a way for people effected by larger economic changes to settle debts without losing everything that they own. Just what they bought with the principal of the loan, if that.

People do not exist to serve a currency, or a bank.

defrauding banks was illegal before the laws were changed.

Income taxes, which is a form of monetary policy drove urbanization. In a span of less than 40 years (between1910-1950ish) 30%-40% of the population went from rural to urban. Mostly due to people losing their property due to deaths caused by influenza brought back after WWI, and to their tax burden during a series of  depressions after the FED was instituted leading up the Great Depression, all  caused by an Elite driven centralized monetary policy. Entire rural towns died, as the people moved out of them due to losing their property, or family.

From 1910 Until 1960 a town of 2500 was considered urban, after which to be considered urban, a place had to have a population density of 1,000 people living in a square mile.

Sooo.... To get a precise number is a statistical impossibility.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 2:54:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Screw the "bottom of the barrel"

They are there because they are pieces of shit.  Let social darwinism play out.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 2:57:26 AM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Screw the "bottom of the barrel"

They are there because they are pieces of shit.  Let social darwinism play out.
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I'm all in once government spending is less than a trillion a year, All malum prohibitum regulation is nullified, and traditional banking practices are restored.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 2:59:28 AM EDT
[#4]
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that is a fake statistic because of inflation.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 4:00:39 AM EDT
[#5]
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More idiots looking at people's outcomes without considering what went into (or didn't) achieving them.

So... you can MAKE people equal, or you can TREAT them equally... but not both at the same time.

The left wants to MAKE you people equal. That's gonna require some pretty appalling shit.
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They have no intention of becoming "equal". They think it'll look great on you though.

Link Posted: 4/30/2017 4:29:14 AM EDT
[#6]
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They have no intention of becoming "equal". They think it'll look great on you though.

https://media.toofab.com/2017/01/13/0113-oscars-inset-810x960.jpg
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More idiots looking at people's outcomes without considering what went into (or didn't) achieving them.

So... you can MAKE people equal, or you can TREAT them equally... but not both at the same time.

The left wants to MAKE you people equal. That's gonna require some pretty appalling shit.




They have no intention of becoming "equal". They think it'll look great on you though.

https://media.toofab.com/2017/01/13/0113-oscars-inset-810x960.jpg
Apply your intellect and time for those  fucks so they can reap the wealth and use it to buy politicians to create laws that artificially shrink the availability of resources and means to insure their hegemony.

That ain't how government and  monetary policy is supposed to work, but who has time to understand how it should?

Is it a good idea to share first world technology with third world slave states to get cheap shit?(globalization)

(It gives countries that could never rival our civilzation our highest technology, without the sociatal freedoms required to actually allow for its creation.) (Which will mean economic rivalry and war with an enemy that has our technology without first creating  civilization worthy of having it. At whose expense that inexorable and inevitable rivalry and war? )

Is it a good idea to artificially decrease the availability of the resources and means required for cheap energy and resources? (global warming)

(That means the current elite will direct the ways and means of production, without bottom up competition)

Is it a good idea to devalue the currency to make the elite wealthy  to the point that a person HAS to rely on government money to supplement their earnings due to inflation for the majority of wage earners?(speculative markets/ APR lending/deficit spending/fractional reserve lending)

(That means huge sums of money created from nothing is making the wealthy, wealthy, while the wealth of  the middle class shrinks due to a larger pool of wealth created for no tangible benefit of the whole)


Do those things have a quantifiable negative effect on the "wealth" of the middle class?

Yes, they all decrease it, while making the middle class subsidize the wealth of the elite.

Wage earners pay the vast majority of federal taxes, very few wealthy people actually earn a wage. The middle class are wage earners.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 4:50:24 AM EDT
[#7]
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In fairness, you should be making more with 20 years of experience under your belt.
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Yes.

I really started working career-wise 10 years ago.

I was a depressed and disgruntled slacker in my 20's. I bounced jobs after 6 months until I stopped being hired because my CV told the story and no one would hire me.
My present employer really saved my life.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:03:17 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:14:55 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
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Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:19:11 AM EDT
[#10]
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That was Clinton shit, before obama.

And it wasn't so much "allowing" as it was legislators essentially "forcing" banks to make these crap loans that they knew would default.  Not to excuse the banks, or anyone involved in that mess, but they just took advantage of a crap situation.  Granted they probably realized they could get rich and greatly expanded it.

This was all in the name of diversity and helping po' black folk.
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That was Clinton shit, before obama.

And it wasn't so much "allowing" as it was legislators essentially "forcing" banks to make these crap loans that they knew would default.  Not to excuse the banks, or anyone involved in that mess, but they just took advantage of a crap situation.  Granted they probably realized they could get rich and greatly expanded it.

This was all in the name of diversity and helping po' black folk.
Article says banks pressured Fannie as well.

SEPT. 30, 1999

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.

Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990's. The number of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.

In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent.

Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part because blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings.

In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.

The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination in the automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness of credit applicants.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:24:52 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
The 1% of wage earners have very little impact on politicians.

It is the other one percent. lol

A good percentage of the money used to pay for political campaigns is  directed by people who aren't even American.

Did you know American congressmen and senators  have to pay a million and up to their party to set on a committee?

Did you know lobbyist chose which politicians they will fund to set on those committees?

Did you know the majority of money spent in U.S. elections come from outside the districts?

Did you know politicians are given insider trading information for cooperation, and that is legal?
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:25:08 AM EDT
[#12]
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Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
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Quoted:
I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
The 1% aren't the ones who vote leftists into power.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:32:40 AM EDT
[#13]
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There is nothing more unfair as the equal treatment of unequals.

Work according to your abilities and get paid according to your needs komrade.
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QFT.

We're all created equal (more or less), but we're not equals.

And that's not a bad thing.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:33:46 AM EDT
[#14]
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The 1% aren't the ones who vote leftists into power.
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They don't care whose in power, they've bought them all. Or do you believe that the other side doesn't take those bribes?
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:34:56 AM EDT
[#15]
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The 1% of wage earners have very little impact on politicians.

It is the other one percent. lol

A good percentage of the money used to pay for political campaigns is  directed by people who aren't even American.

Did you know American congressmen and senators  have to pay a million and up to their party to set on a committee?

Did you know lobbyist chose which politicians they will fund to set on those committees?

Did you know the majority of money spent in U.S. elections come from outside the districts?

Did you know politicians are given insider trading information for cooperation, and that is legal?
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The richest of the rich own all the politicians. This is a universal truth that plays itself out every single time a politician opens his mouth.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:50:10 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
The 1% aren't the ones who vote leftists into power.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
The 1% aren't the ones who vote leftists into power.
You're right, but it is the politically connected oligarchs who control the MSM and most of the government (de facto) via lobbying. Voting only matters so much when both parties are effectively owned by the same people.

Thanks to their ownership of the MSM they are easily able to spin narratives that appeal to the useful idiots in the population and keep them under control.

The government class and the oligarchs have a symbiotic relationship. They work together in their efforts to rob everyone else. The government class are largely puppets, while the oligarchs are the puppet masters. There's some overlap between them at the top of course, though most of the oligarchs prefer to stay out of the spotlight.

There's also a big difference between earning wealth in the free market and acquiring it by using the government to pass laws to give certain players an unassailable artificial advantage.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:56:05 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
You're right, but it is the politically connected oligarchs who control the MSM and most of the government (de facto) via lobbying. Voting only matters so much when both parties are effectively owned by the same people.

Thanks to their ownership of the MSM they are easily able to spin narratives that appeal to the useful idiots in the population and keep them under control.

The government class and the oligarchs have a symbiotic relationship. They work together in their efforts to rob everyone else. The government class are largely puppets, while the oligarchs are the puppet masters. There's some overlap between them at the top of course, though most of the oligarchs prefer to stay out of the spotlight.

There's also a big difference between earning wealth in the free market and acquiring it by using the government to pass laws to give certain players an unassailable artificial advantage.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
The 1% aren't the ones who vote leftists into power.
You're right, but it is the politically connected oligarchs who control the MSM and most of the government (de facto) via lobbying. Voting only matters so much when both parties are effectively owned by the same people.

Thanks to their ownership of the MSM they are easily able to spin narratives that appeal to the useful idiots in the population and keep them under control.

The government class and the oligarchs have a symbiotic relationship. They work together in their efforts to rob everyone else. The government class are largely puppets, while the oligarchs are the puppet masters. There's some overlap between them at the top of course, though most of the oligarchs prefer to stay out of the spotlight.

There's also a big difference between earning wealth in the free market and acquiring it by using the government to pass laws to give certain players an unassailable artificial advantage.
True, but in todays world there's no excuse for voters to only rely on the MSM. Look at Brexit or the last US election where the MSM narrative was soundly ignored by the electorate.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 5:57:02 AM EDT
[#18]
My tax rate is 20%+

With that extra 20%, I would be middle class. All the old people now voted themselves a bunch of free shit.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 6:09:56 AM EDT
[#19]
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True, but in todays world there's no excuse for voters to only rely on the MSM. Look at Brexit or the last US election where the MSM narrative was soundly ignored by the electorate.
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Both were far too close for comfort.

So far those victories have also proven largely symbolic, it still remains to be seen if any concrete progress will be made in the fight against the Left, via the ballot box I mean. They're so deeply entrenched into the government's of the West, and they don't respect the decisions of the electorate unless those decisions serve the Left's goals.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 6:48:22 AM EDT
[#20]
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Income inequality is the libtard excuse for the poor being lazy.  

This is America.  You can have whatever the hell you want if you go out and work for it.   
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The article is talking about the Median income. The median income has stayed stagnant for the last 20 or so years. If you think this isn't a problem, then you must really want America to emulate South America. 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 7:19:36 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
The 1% of wage earners have very little impact on politicians.

It is the other one percent. lol

A good percentage of the money used to pay for political campaigns is  directed by people who aren't even American.

Did you know American congressmen and senators  have to pay a million and up to their party to set on a committee?

Did you know lobbyist chose which politicians they will fund to set on those committees?

Did you know the majority of money spent in U.S. elections come from outside the districts?

Did you know politicians are given insider trading information for cooperation, and that is legal?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
Yes. The 1% has absolutely nothing to do with the regulations and legislation that adversely affects you. They are strictly hands-off when it comes to the government and how that affects their wallet.

For the most part, the 1% have nothing to do with politics at all. Most of the politicians are bought and paid for by Big Middle Class.
The 1% of wage earners have very little impact on politicians.

It is the other one percent. lol

A good percentage of the money used to pay for political campaigns is  directed by people who aren't even American.

Did you know American congressmen and senators  have to pay a million and up to their party to set on a committee?

Did you know lobbyist chose which politicians they will fund to set on those committees?

Did you know the majority of money spent in U.S. elections come from outside the districts?

Did you know politicians are given insider trading information for cooperation, and that is legal?
And did you know those lobbyists spend over 3 billion dollars a year to buy, er I mean fund those politicians?

Did you know those same politicians are responsible for most of the spending out of Washington?

Did you know that most of that spending, in the forms of lucrative contracts, grants etc... is aimed at the companies that hired the lobbyists in the first place?
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 7:28:38 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:


And did you know those lobbyists spend over 3 billion dollars a year to buy, er I mean fund those politicians?

Did you know those same politicians are responsible for most of the spending out of Washington?

Did you know that most of that spending, in the forms of lucrative contracts, grants etc... is aimed at the companies that hired the lobbyists in the first place?  
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3Billion is a tiny percentage of what they spend.

It does not include stock information, gratuities, and sweet heart side deals which is what makes congress critters stand at attention.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 7:28:44 AM EDT
[#23]
TL;DR

Commie recruiting drive.

TC
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:04:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Whenever people bring up politicians being bought and paid for, I am reminded of that scene in the movie Shooter, when they are on top of that mountain (fast forward to the 6 minute mark):



"....there are no Democrats and Republicans....only the haves and the have nots... "
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:06:48 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
3Billion is a tiny percentage of what they spend.

It does not include stock information, gratuities, and sweet heart side deals which is what makes congress critters stand at attention.
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Quoted:


And did you know those lobbyists spend over 3 billion dollars a year to buy, er I mean fund those politicians?

Did you know those same politicians are responsible for most of the spending out of Washington?

Did you know that most of that spending, in the forms of lucrative contracts, grants etc... is aimed at the companies that hired the lobbyists in the first place?  
3Billion is a tiny percentage of what they spend.

It does not include stock information, gratuities, and sweet heart side deals which is what makes congress critters stand at attention.
Good point, and is why so many congressmen enter office virtually broke and leave multi-millionaires.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:10:47 AM EDT
[#26]
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Back maybe 15 years ago, one of the hosts of NPR had a moment of clarity and did a story on the "new necessities" that people feel they need to have, even if they are lower income, to feel good about themselves.  

Basically, they had everything, cable, internet, home computer, new cell phones, 2 or 3 late model cars...you get the idea, that educated middle class Americans had, but they got those things from what other Americans paid to them, essentially,  in taxes.   They might have been lower income, but they were not doing without, and were certainly not hungry.
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Internet can be had for $30/mo in many areas. Home computers are so cheap, that you can probably get a serviceable computer for free, or damn near it. 

New Cell phones and fairly new cars? Yeah, I agree, poor people shouldn't feel entitled to these things. I consider myself somewhat poor, at least in terms of Income (my house being paid off makes up for my income-shortcomings), but I still tend to purchase a phone at least a generation or two old..

I am happy to go my life without ever having a car newer than 5 years. I would be happy with a 10 year old car, albiet with low miles. My only fear, for my Fiance and my future, is the healthcare costs. Healthcare costs have been skyrocketting waaaaaaay past inflation rates for *YEARS*,... regardless of regulations. I think Obamacare made a bad situation worse... but seriously.... we seem to forget it was still really bad before Obamacare.

Before Obamacare, Healthcare was all ready becoming too expensive for lower-middle class families. Now, it is so expensive, that even Upper-Middle class families are struggling to afford healthcare insurance. 

I have no want for anything, except healthcare. I don't necessarily want Universal Healthcare, all though I don't know what can solve this problem. The Republican idea that we can solve this problem by allowing Insurance companies to "sell across state lines" is just a big huge fucking distraction. INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM. HOSPITALS ARE! 

Our Hospitals charge 5 times as much as Hospitals in Europe. Our Hospitals are only *MARGINALLY* better than European hospitals (if at all). Considering that the vast majority of Americans can't afford even a simple short stay at a hospital... I would say that whatever marginal quality American hospitals have over European counterparts, are far overshadowed by their cost. 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:12:56 AM EDT
[#27]
I was chief economist of the World Bank in the late 1990s, when we began to receive similarly depressing news from Russia. Our data showed that GDP had fallen some 30% since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
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Man, if only they had stuck with Communism and spreading it's virtues, things would have been so much better.  
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:14:44 AM EDT
[#28]
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See my sigline
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"The funny thing about the super rich and the poor in America is they both feel entitled to what little the middle class has.- Mclovin5-0"

Haha, excellent quote that I've read before.  The middle class make up the backbone of American society, which is why the GOPe and the Democrats are trying to destroy it, the former for corporate America, the latter to bring about their socialist utopia.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:19:53 AM EDT
[#29]
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Most of the gains are going to the top 1%.  That means less to go around the lower/ middle class.
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I really do not giaf about how the 1% lives or how much they make.

What matters is how much I make.

Worry about the poor, and why they are poor. Are public schools not preparing people for life? (Can a high school.graduate earn a living, without needing government assistance)

Do we subsidize 1 parent households? Stop doing that.

Focus on eliminating the need for public assistance, if that means the top 1% earn a gazillion dollars a year, who cares?
Most of the gains are going to the top 1%.  That means less to go around the lower/ middle class.
America used to be a country where a high school education was all you needed to be able to earn enough to raise a family, and provide for all their basic needs. College used to be something that better off families sent their kids to, to become rich. 
Now, even college graduates are expecting to live a life of poverty. 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:26:33 AM EDT
[#30]
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Wage/income inequality is a real thing and is a creation of the political class (both parties).

Un-checked illegal immigration driving wages for trades and entry level/production type jobs down.
Companies being able to hire unlimited H1B visa people to do work that was once seen as a way up/out of being poor.
Increased taxation and regulation adding unnecessary costs and burdens.

There are other factors that change the definition of what it is to be middle class and the added expenses that are part of modern society too.

When I was a kid (1970s) we lived in a very small, turn of the century house. It was old and small but it was in a good working class neighborhood (low crime, neighbors all knew one another, there was a sense of community).
For most of my childhood we only had one car (a 10 year old Chevy bought used) and my mom was a stay at home.
We had one TV with an antenna and a house phone.

My dad made enough money to pay the bills, remodel the place, take us on a vacation every year and we never once went hungry or took a handout.

The average family now has 2-3 late model cars, a toy of some sort (boat, offroad, bike etc), 3-4 HDTVs, cable, internet, cell phones, etc.
All financed.
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It used to be only Blue collar jobs that would get outsourced. Now even legitimate WHITE COLLAR jobs, even high end, high paying jobs... are being outsourced. 
I think it was Goldman Sachs that outsourced a bunch of highly paid Wallstreet brokers to Singapore. These were jobs paying in excess of $200,000. 

NO JOB IS SAFE. 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:36:35 AM EDT
[#31]
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I'm all about getting rich, and think it's great when people do.

I DO NOT think it's great when people get rich through abuses of the system, or other anti-Capitalistic means. It's hard to argue most of the richest of the rich didn't get their bank through various abuses, and taking advantage of the system they paid for.
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This is really inevitable in any Capitalist... or actually *ANY* system. Even North Korea has the same fucking problem, and it is far from "Capitalist". The difference is that *LOYALTY*, is the primary currency in North Korea. The more LOYAL you are to Kim Jong Un, the more you benefit. Of course, that loyalty only pays off if your family is all-ready connected and has some "privileges". 

I actually agree with the left on the point that there *ARE* some privileges. I just argue that they have more to do with life circumstances, and less to do with race. 

A black guy born into a rich family, is going to do better ... *WAAAAAAAAAY* better than some poor white guy born to a rust belt family, even given the same personal qualities. When you are born to a rich family, your life definitely is on "easy mode". 
Even my own mother, who often complains about my shortcomings in life, will admit that I am far more responsible than my cousin... who is the son of very rich parents. That guy hasn't had a *REAL JOB* in probably 10 years. He lives a life of luxury, as his parents pay for every expense in his life and all he does is park cars and do menial labor at the family owned restaurant. 

Yet he enjoys a life that I will likely never be able to enjoy. I can work my ass off, and *NEVER* have a life that matches his.... purely because of the circumstances of his birth. His parents aren't even that rich when you take the entire country into consideration. 

If his family were to completely cut him off, he would likely find himself homeless. 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:37:54 AM EDT
[#32]
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Income inequality?

I don’t give a shit about income inequality and neither should anyone else. I mean, which would you rather be, the guy who makes $100k a year (assuming equal purchasing power to what we have now) in a nation where everyone else earned $100,000,000 a year, or the guy who earns $500 a year in a third world village where everyone only earns $500 a year?

It’s an easy question, or it should be to anyone who isn’t a shit eating communist.

Look, in a really wealthy society the bottom 10% are going to live in poverty and barely get by for the simple reason that they don’t want to do anything else. At least they don’t want to do anything else that requires much actual work. All they want is their TV, a case of beer, and some cheap pizza and they will work just hard enough to get this and not do anything else no matter what opportunities are put in front of them.

Most of us know people like this. Sometimes they outgrow that way of living, sometimes they don’t. But no matter what their poverty is not the fault of society.

Here’s a question. Imagine that there is a job that pays $250 an hour, after taxes, with full benefits. It’s honest and moral work that you can do with a clean conscious. And, better still, you can choose how many hours a week you work. Unfortunately it’s rather tedious and boring plus you have to really work when you are there, not surf the internet all day.

So, how many hours do you work. More importantly, how many hours do you think other people will work. Working just one hour a week gives you a bit over $1,000 a month which means you can live in your mom’s basement and drink beer the rest of the time. At two hours you might could afford some trailer somewhere and an old car, maybe even have enough left over to go the a bar every so often.

Let’s face it, given the choice that’s all some people would do.

Others might choose to work 4 or 5 hours a week which would give them a really comfortable life. Still others might work 8, 10, or even 20 hours a week which would leave them quite wealthy. My guess is that few people would go beyond this. 20 hours (over $20,000 a month take home) would let you do most anything you wanted, and you would have plenty of time left over to do it.

And that’s the thing about wealth. Some people can never get enough. For a lot of these people the wealth is something they pump back into their business. They aren’t spending the money on themselves, they are investing in the businesses that give us all jobs.

When you understand this you see that a free economy will always have the fabulously wealthy and the poor.

And that brings us to the problem with our economy today. It’s not wealth inequality, it’s a lack of opportunity for a large percentage of the people. And economic opportunities are created by having a vibrant and growing economy, not an economy choking under government regulation.
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You talk about the bottom 10%. But the reality is, that the bottom 50% are struggling to make ends meet in this country.
THE MEDIAN INCOME IN AMERICA IS ONLY $30,000! 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:43:39 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
America used to be a country where a high school education was all you needed to be able to earn enough to raise a family, and provide for all their basic needs. College used to be something that better off families sent their kids to, to become rich. 
Now, even college graduates are expecting to live a life of poverty. 
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When they place themselves in extreme debt to the tune of 10's even 100's of thousands of dollars to get liberal arts degrees because they are the easiest to obtain and subsequently worthless in the real world, end up flipping burgers, on welfare, or both they should expect it.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 8:58:38 AM EDT
[#34]
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When the liberals started allowing banks to sell loans to anybody, proof of income or not, personal responsibility went to shit and banks passed those weak loans to the liberal government who bought them. Eventually the vast overwhelming majority of people who shouldn't have been given loans failed to pay them the taxpayers were forced to pay. The homes around me doubled and tripled in price in 3-5 years and I couldn't figure out how people were paying twice and three times what I was paying my home. Of course they weren't and the only winners were Obama's friends in the banking industry.
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Liberals didn't allow banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers, they forced them to.

But many lenders didn't need their arms twisted too hard, once they figured out how to bundle crap mortgages together and sell them on the equities market, so someone else was left holding the bag.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 9:05:16 AM EDT
[#35]
I think a big part for wage stagnation over the last few decades is due to increased globalism and competition with countries who's employees receive what we would call "slave wages".

As to the loan problems............."fat cats and greedy consumers" were to blame.

Don't borrow what you can't possibly pay for without "flipping it" for a profit at a later date.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 9:06:08 AM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


If they want the same lifestyle as that first bunch, yeah.  

Folks with 3rd-world skill sets wanting a 1st-world standard of living just because they came out of a vagina poised over the proper piece of territory.  Fuck that shit.
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You'd be surprised what an educated 3rd Worlder is capable of. You'd also be surprised what they work for. You'd also be VERY surprised how easily an Outsourced labor worker can earn normal local wages when immigrating to the first world. This implies that the difference in quality of worker, isn't that drastic. I know of 3rd Worlders that have immigrated to the US, and gotten highly paid American jobs... even though as outsourced labor they were only making a tiny fraction of that in their home country.

If these 3rd world workers were only worth 3rd world wages,... they wouldnt stand a chance when they immigrate to America. The reality isn't that Americans can't compete with 3rd World labor quality... but rather that we can't compete with their drastically lower expectations as far as pay. An Engineer in America expects to live a nice comfortable life. An Engineer in the 3rd world is happy to just have a paycheck earning marginally more than a local retail sales worker. 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 9:12:39 AM EDT
[#37]
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It honestly won't be long before the trucks drive themselves. The plumbers and electricians will grab their food from a McDonalds that makes good profit and doesn't employ hardly anybody do turn that profit, and the plumbers and electricians will eat their food and do paperwork on the way in the truck that drives itself after entering the address into the computer. The trucking companies will get the job done well and get paid  well without having to employ any truck drivers. The self driving trucks and automated McDonalds will be built by robots on assembly lines. And everybody will be happy.

Oh, and the hispanics will pour the concrete.
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Plumbers and Electricians, however, won't be doing any construction work. Only maintenance work, or repairs. 
If you can 3D print a home, you likewise can 3D print a home with pipes, conduit, and electrical work robotically constructed as well. 
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 9:19:05 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You talk about the bottom 10%. But the reality is, that the bottom 50% are struggling to make ends meet in this country.
THE MEDIAN INCOME IN AMERICA IS ONLY $30,000! 
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You talk about the bottom 10%. But the reality is, that the bottom 50% are struggling to make ends meet in this country.
THE MEDIAN INCOME IN AMERICA IS ONLY $30,000! 
Yea, I know. Like I said at the end of my post...


When you understand this you see that a free economy will always have the fabulously wealthy and the poor.

And that brings us to the problem with our economy today. It’s not wealth inequality, it’s a lack of opportunity for a large percentage of the people. And economic opportunities are created by having a vibrant and growing economy, not an economy choking under government regulation.
The economy does suck. "Inequality" has nothing to do with it. The problem is that the opportunity is not there for many people.


The economy has been overregulated by the Federal Government, and by state and local governments as well. We have imported tens of millions of third worlders and turned a blind eye while tens of millions more illegally come into the country and take the lower skilled jobs that many Americans relied on to get by. (Look, people's IQ is generally fixed and someone born with a 90 IQ is not a defective person, but they aren't ever going to be a research scientist.)


We tax businesses, regulate businesses, subject businesses to ruinous lawsuits. We create a public school system that can't even teach people the basics after 12 years and then try to make up for it by insisting everyone should go to college where they can learn about White male oppression at a cost of $50,000 a year. Our government has screwed with medical costs to the point that no one can afford to go to a doctor anymore.

The result is that a great many Americans have to struggle to get by in a wealthy country.

And that brings us back to wealth inequality. The Left is using that statistic as an excuse for even more government bullshit which will make matters worse.


The phrase "Wealth Inequality" is a great example of what is known as a "Libturd." A libturd is a bundle of liberal thought. See, Liberals are all assholes, and it's scientific fact that shit comes out of assholes, along with some hot smelly gasses. So when a Liberal is telling you something you know their face sphincter is dumping a giant turd and then trying to get you to eat it. Libturds aren't just random shit. They have meetings where they carefully craft this shit and then test it in focus groups. Then they spread the shit around to all the other Liberals. That's why certain libturds seem to show up all at once from everywhere. You see their face sphincters stretching wide and out plops some new bit of shit.

So, learn to recognize libturds and do not eat them when some leftist college professor, or news anchor, or politician, or activist, or union thug shits one out in front of you and tells you it is really chocolate candy.

Seriously, although I am being both metaphorical and disgusting, this is what happens. Liberals think in chunks of carefully crafted lies. You can demolish any one of the lies with just a little thought and research. The problem is that the libtard (a libtard is someone who has eaten too many libturds and become libtarded) won't set down and critically evaluate that one belief, accept that it is wrong, and then discard it from their thoughts. When challenged the libtard will grab other libturds, seemingly at random, screech, and fling them at you in monkeylike fashion. You carefully explain how their "Wealth Inequality" belief is bullshit and they start screaming "What about "blood for oil" and what about "slavery" and what about "tax cuts for the rich" and what about "global warming." Eventually you will either run out of time or they will hit you with a libturd you can't refute. (not because there's any truth to it but because you just don't have the facts memorized to argue against it.) Then they will claim victory, pick up all their libturds and go home believing they have one the argument and proven all of their shit is true.

So, we must all learn to recognize the libturds and never, ever eat them.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 10:30:10 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:


Liberals didn't allow banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers, they forced them to.
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Quoted:


Liberals didn't allow banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers, they forced them to.
Obviously you didn't read the article I posted earlier up this page

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 11:42:32 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
Plumbers and Electricians, however, won't be doing any construction work. Only maintenance work, or repairs. 
If you can 3D print a home, you likewise can 3D print a home with pipes, conduit, and electrical work robotically constructed as well. 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:


It honestly won't be long before the trucks drive themselves. The plumbers and electricians will grab their food from a McDonalds that makes good profit and doesn't employ hardly anybody do turn that profit, and the plumbers and electricians will eat their food and do paperwork on the way in the truck that drives itself after entering the address into the computer. The trucking companies will get the job done well and get paid  well without having to employ any truck drivers. The self driving trucks and automated McDonalds will be built by robots on assembly lines. And everybody will be happy.

Oh, and the hispanics will pour the concrete.
Plumbers and Electricians, however, won't be doing any construction work. Only maintenance work, or repairs. 
If you can 3D print a home, you likewise can 3D print a home with pipes, conduit, and electrical work robotically constructed as well. 
Sure. And instead of 100 electricians running wires, it will be 2 electricians doing maintenance. And another will get a job running the electrical robots that assemble pre-fab houses.  The house builder will get paid just as much money but he will no longer have to pay an army of workers. It's starting to happen now. I know a guy who is an electrical engineer. He works full time for a greehouse. He was told on his first day of work his job is to eliminate jobs at the greenhouse.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 11:44:45 AM EDT
[#41]
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The article is talking about the Median income. The median income has stayed stagnant for the last 20 or so years. If you think this isn't a problem, then you must really want America to emulate South America. 
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According to them, it's all because people have gotten lazy and suck at life now or something.  How dare Americans want more than what 3rd world workers make just for being born on the right side of the ocean?
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 11:51:35 AM EDT
[#42]
"Those who had invested in the stock market saw much of their wealth wiped out."

That's a bunch of BS. My stock market based Thrift Savings Plan grew a lot, especially after President Trump won the election (and it continues to grow). Previously, it had been sluggish, yet steadily growing for years. Only once about 6 or 8 years ago did I get a big drop (loss) in my TSP. But, a couple of months later I made back all of the loss and then some. My TSP never experienced being "wiped out" as the stupid claim made above. Not even close. Oh, but, I failed to notice who the OP was. That explains it all.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 11:54:19 AM EDT
[#43]
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OP is a liberal troll. Just search his posts. Waiting on the ban.
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You're dang right he is! I've got to start paying attention as to whom the OP is before I click on a thread. This one sucks royally. This one and "Bag O Dicks" are particularly bad.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 11:57:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Student who worked in Chinese iPhone factory explains why manufacturing jobs aren't coming back to the U.S.
NYU Wagner student Dejian Zeng spent last summer building iPhones for Pegatron
Zeng's trip was organized by NYU and China Labor Watch
Zeng said he doesn't think it'll be possible to manufacture iPhones by hand in the US
Todd Haselton | @robotodd 33 Mins Ago

Zeng walked CNBC through his decision to spend six weeks in a factory working 12 hours shifts Monday through Saturday, mostly during the night, and what he discovered along the way.


Now that he's seen how a Chinese iPhone factory operates, Zeng doesn't believe that Apple or other companies will be able to build competitive factories in the U.S., no matter what politicians want them to do.

"The first thing I can think of from a labor perspective is that the wages are unacceptable for American workers. So, in the factories, I was getting paid about 3100 yuan, or $450, per month. I don't think American workers can accept those kind of wages based on living conditions and prices here," Zeng said.

"Even if they relocate factories to the U.S. they'd replace workers with robots," Zeng said. He said Pegatron already uses robots to apply cameras to iPhones, and to drop batteries into the devices. Robots, Zeng said, are more precise than human workers, and precision is particularly important for those two components.

The only reason human labor is still used, he believes, is because it's cheaper in some cases.

"We are using labor in China instead of a machine because labor is cheaper than maintaining machines. If you relocate factories to the States you need to think of how to manage the workers," Zeng explained.

Meanwhile, Zeng also said that factories are starting to appear in other countries where human labor costs are even cheaper than in China.

"China is developing. Prices for food and housing are increasing, so you have to increase wages accordingly. The government set minimum wages, and wages are going up, so cost for labor is going up. Other places like Bangladesh, the wages are really low. They're shutting down factories in China and moving to where labor costs are lower. Factories used to be in America, then they moved to China, and now they're moving over to Vietnam and Bangladesh."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/30/iphone-factory-observer-why-trump-cant-bring-manufacturing-jobs-back.html
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 11:58:00 AM EDT
[#45]
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who is not prosecuting the people who hire them? and why? all comes down to money in politics, don't it?
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Republicans and Democrats alike have screwed middle and working class America.  Money and politics is right.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 12:09:34 PM EDT
[#46]
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I'm sick and tired of the class warfare narrative.

Most of the ills affecting the middle and working classes, whether in the US or Europe, are due to goverment taxation and regulations. The 1% is not to blame, neither here nor there. They're not the ones who pick my pocket.
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Actually those are exactly the people that sold out American workers for illegal aliens in this country and sent our factories over to Communist China.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 12:14:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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Actually those are exactly the people that sold out American workers for illegal aliens in this country and sent our factories over to Communist China.
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/This.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 12:19:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Inequality isn't killing Middle America.  Exportation of middle class production jobs is the primary factor (yay free trade).  Now, throw in a rigged financial system (quantitative easing and other machinations), voluntary debt via housing loans, auto loans, school loans, easy credit, predictive programming (fostered by consumerism promoted by the media) and bad education (only a couple of members here can distinguish between money and currency) all contribute to draining the wealth of people who would otherwise reach middle class.
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 12:21:33 PM EDT
[#49]
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3Billion is a tiny percentage of what they spend.

It does not include stock information, gratuities, and sweet heart side deals which is what makes congress critters stand at attention.
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Are you suggesting that Susan Rice's $30 million profit on obscure Canadian oil stocks, and her willingness to illegally spy on Donald Trump might somehow be related?
Link Posted: 4/30/2017 12:25:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Equality should be about treating people the same, no about punishing the best so that you can reward the less deserving.  One prevents the other.  
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