Oil cleaner machine?


No. It's a quart of product that you dump into the engine oil, run the engine for 15 minutes, then change the oil and filter.  


I didn't say it wouldn't clean the engine out. I said I wouldn't recommend atf in an engine for any significant amount of time. The additive package is not designed for high heat. Thus why ATF gets burnt.  

If you want to argue the compositions of oils,  go for it. But know it's my Industry and I'm a very well known leader in the finished product market.  With several staff STLE-CLS certified lubricant engineers on staff.

Synthetic oils actuallly have additives in them that condition the seals to prevent them from leaking, synthetic is fine for higher mileage vehicles

Not always.


Please define synthetic for reference however...

Uhm you do realize trans have bearings and thrust bearings in them as well right?Did you know for years and years that the oil companies have ran ATF in not just t-cases but also manual trans and differentials on the north slope without issue....I also ran my mud racers for years with ATF in both the tcase and both differentials....somehow they all survived 2000 plus HP without issue...

You do realize that in both of those situations you're also not exposing the oil to flash temperatures north of 1200 degrees?

I understand this isn't, but in a turbo'd engine, the friction modifier packages in ATF would instantly become burnt.

Great, we now know that you are a certified oil expert and that ATF will burn in a turbo center section...now for the OP's bone stock non turbo pickup engine that is gunked up he needs to decide if he wants to try a can of 15 minute super flush, that most likely won't do much on heavy deposits of gunk, or pull his engine, dismantle it, hot Tank it and reassemble, or throw a can of ATF in the oil and drive it...his choice either way..he's heard from all sides on real world solutions...

It's not about believing you about the product working.  Just because the engine has 150K on it doesn't mean the heads are gunked up.  Unless the engine has a faulty design(I don't know much about the 6.4), or is mainly short tripped, the engine should stay pretty clean with modern oil and proper service intervals.  Not knowing the condition before the cleaner makes it impossible to know what it did.

You do realize all engines have hot spots? Such as the cylinder walls and bottom side of the piston that also get extremely hot right?

And that the polymers in modern ATFs will also burn? Thus adding to the problem you're trying to defeat? When there are inexpensive purpose built products for this exact situation?


But alright. Your? knowledge of lubricants is the end all be all.

I'm not disagreeing. Which is why I said take it for what it's worth.

I'm a believer when I see what it takes out of the engines of my fleet. (100+ trucks.) Including trucks that have had issues. Including super high hour engines. (A c15 with 36000+ hours on it.)

Has nothing to do with it.   Op, switch to a synthetic, but your initial change needs to be done within 3k, as the synthetic will flash a bunch of that shit out.  Then extend your drain intervals to 6k.   The difference in cleanliness of the internal parts of a motor that has been running synthetic vs conventional has to be seen to be believed.

Like I already said, I do not question your expertise or knowledge...I Just offered a real world solution to the OP's issue that in fact does work excellent for the specific issue he is having......It is his choice to use it or not...

It won't be seen because it's not true.  Conventional oil cleans and lubricates just fine.  Synthetic oil mainly allows you to extends oil change intervals under normal conditions.  That being said.  Synthetics are so cheap these days, and usually have a rebate too, there's little reason to not use them.

You realize the bearings in an engine are far different than those found in transmissions right?  Also, atf in transfer cases has been the demise of many.  It evaporates.  Replace with 5 weight oil.

Somewhere I have pictures of the inside of 10  cat c15 engines.  5 ran rotella 15-40 conventional and the other 5 ran t6 synthetic.  The difference was dramatic to say the least.  I'll see if I can find them

Of course I do....

For the record, I'm not saying your trans fluid idea is bad.  I've never tried it.  Can't be any worse than folks putting seafoam in there

I would like to see the pictures.

I have a cat c13 in my shop for a rebuild because the genius owner decided to run atf during his oil change to clean out the gunk that was caused by using cheap oil and he wanted to save money so he would have more in his pockets.

The oil when it was being drained looked like tar and stunk like ass.

He was shocked and said he just changed it less then 200 miles ago.

Now a diesel is different then a regular gasser truck engine but after seeing what can happen if you toss atf in with the oil, no fucking way will I ever do that.
Even the tech and service managers jaws dropped when the guy said he put atf in, those guys both have over 30 years each in the industry and have seen almost it all and they had to bite their tongue when the guy told them that.

The engine came in with a host of issues and is going to cost him a whole lot of money, I can try to snag pics but most times we can't have our phones out due to company policy.
The engine is out of the truck and has been taken apart and one of the major things it needs is a new oil system and filters and lines as well as pickup and bearings

Very used seafoam before and other cleaners on a 4.0 jeep I have and they worked great, you could reach in the oil fill on it and your finger would come out coated in sludge, after I used it it came out coated in clean looking oil.

I did an oil change, poured the cleaner in and drove around the block to bring it up to temp and put about 25 miles or so of it then changed the oil and filters and they were nasty.
The cleaner cost me around $5 or so and was worth it.

The engine sounded and ran better and even if it was a gimmick I was only out 5 bucks and it made the valve train look clean.


OP, do what you want.
Lots of good and bad advice has been posted in this thread and if you choose to follow the bad advice please don't come back bitching about it

Regular rotella is fucking junk.

I've said it for years. It sheers and is under treated in additive packages.

Sure t6 is decent. But you also pay way too much for what you're getting. (Exception if you're running it in a bike / jaso application.)


Kendall DXA 15w40 or Chevron Delo XLE.  Best two diesel engine oils on the market.

I like pie.

Devil's advocate here. Former fleet mechanic, almost 1,000 vehicles maintained at the time.
We used recycle oil, 15/40, and never had a oil related engine failure, but we were pretty good with our
PM's.
Fuel seems to cause more of the engine problems than oil. Biodiesel was the best thing for injectors. I never would have thought.
If your engine seeps dino oil, then it will leak worse with synthetic, so keep an eye on things after changing over to synth.
I use Mobile 1 in all my vehicles, generators, etc. Never any problems since 1991.
I almost ruined a Duetz air cooled diesel engine for a water pump by switching over to synthetic engine oil. The Duetz never got hot enough to
seal the rings, and started using a BUNCH of oil.
The fix, from the factory, was to drain and fill with 30 wt. non detergent oil and run for 20 hours, then drain and refill with a good dino oil.
Fixed it. I used Mobile 15/40 in it after that.

Run a good oil and do not mess with it,(engine), as many other parts under that hood are going to wear out before the engine will.
If the factory sez use 50/90 oil, best bet is to use what they say.
5/30 is still the go to stand by I guess, and 0wt-20 also. If it sez so, use it.
Go by the oil changes in the manual.
Use the filters they recommend, or eq.

There have been millions of good transfer cases sitting in worn/rotted out trucks and SUV in junkyards across America that ran ATF their whole life.  Many may have never had a fluid change.  I don't think the proper ATF will be a problem.  What's the difference between similar weigh ATF and engine oil in a transmission?  Engine oil has additives to work in it's environment that aren't needed in a sealed transfer case with no combustion byproducts/etc.  An SAE 5 oil would also be a lot thinner than the traditional Dex/Mercon ATF that has lubed millions of cases over the last few decades.

Truth.

Never mind I read quoted post.

I asked for opinions and believe me I got a bunch. I'm more confused as to what to do now more than ever. One thing I haven't asked is what's causing the momentary lifters collapsing under spring pressure wile not running. They pump up in a few seconds and the ticking goes away shortly thereafter. Before I did the teardown and Berryman's treatment they would pump up but the ticking wouldn't stop. Now at least the ticking goes away but the lifters are collapsing while the engine isn't ran for a few hours. Aaaaaagghh I'm so confused! Do a motor flush or add ATF? I don't know what to do.
I appreciate everyone's ideas. God knows I asked for them. I just assumed they would be more inline with one another. I need to do something. Just don't know what! What's causing the initial lifter collapse after sitting and how do I fix that as well as the frickin ticking. At least the ticking goes away after a mile  or so. Before it would'nt stop. Somebody please convince me what my next move should be! Straight motor flush and then oil as normal or run ATF for a few hundred miles? BTW, they're not the infamous Castech heads but I also have coolant mysteriously disappearing. There's no smell in the cab and when I sampled the evap drain water with a antifreeze spectrometer no antifreeze was detectected. Where is it going? Been doing that for three years. No milky oil and the oil level doesn't rise.  I have ticking lifters. Now only on start up and not continuous I have a what I think is a dry lifter tick. Lifters pump up and then shortly after the tick goes away. I'm so comfused!!! Now I don't know what the hell to do! I ready to fill it to the br with varsol and let it please. PLEASE GD lets come to some conclusion!

Commie, I'm ready for your source of the Gulf oil engine oil system cleaner. I'm ready to try almost anything!

sea foam is good stuff

I just bought this on amazon- havent used it yet but from some research ive done its pretty good.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CR3RXTO?tag=vglnk-c102-20

Ive used liquid moly's 'diesel purge' on a duramax with a dirty/clogged injector that was causing white smoke(too much fuel) at idle. And the liquid moly helped significantly.

It's just petroleum and alcohol. 

Petroleum similar to diesel for lubrication, alcohol for water absorption and naphtha as the cleaning agent.

http://hildstrom.com/projects/seafoam/

It's cleaning properties are responsible for at least one of the myths about synthetic oil causing oil leaks.  Sometimes the gunk build up is stopping up a leak and someone puts synthetic in and pretty soon they have an oil leak they didn't have before.  Caused by the cleanup not the oil per say.

Oh, what would you know about lubricants.

Back in the day, we did the ATF thing.  Washed our hands with it, too, then the parts washer, then the LAVA soap.

Got half a pint of sea foam in it now. The other half I sucked into the engine through the brake booster. Also have half a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in it too.

Listen to this man, he is in the industry and knows what he is talking about.

1 quart atf and cheap oil and filter.

Run it till oil turns black and change.

Did that on an old 351W and most recently on a 4.3 S10 motor that was filthy.

First oil change was at 100ish miles.  Second at 500ish. Third stayed clean till 1000.

At which point I put in rotella 5w40 and an ac delco filter.

Oil is still clean 3000 miles later.

Pulled valve covers and replaced gaskets and it looked great.

Every thing you just said has happened to me. Twice.

Watch your OP like a hawk.

Thick sludge in bottom of pan, over an inch deep.


More build up and sludge and gunk.


Yuk


Castech head. How do you know yours aren't ? Mine are, although there are no visible signs of failure and they were pressure tested. I also had no signs of coolant in the oil but it was going somewhere.  Still haven't figured it out.

The first time my engine went , it started just as you describe. Truck had about 150k miles. Lifter noise would go away after it warmed up and lifters built up pressure. Then it was 15 or 20 minutes and miles down the road before the noise stopped. I wasn't adamant at changing my oil but I did do it.

I started getting erratic OP here and there and that went on for a couple months.

Then , one day when I was half way to work, the OP WENT TO ZERO.

Well , that sucks. Pulled over and let it sit. Called work and said "not coming in , my truck just took a shit".

Cranked it up and oil pressure still about zero, drove it home about 10 miles or so. By the time I pulled in the driveway it was making a hell of a racket . It  never seized though.

I rebuilt it myself and was proud of my work.

Then the same thing happened again about 50k miles later, almost identical to the first time.

The second time, it ran raggedy and lost OP set a CEL whe I was 25 miles from home in rush hour with just me and my son who was about 6 or 7.


So I said screw it and drove it home. Zero OP.

If you do the work yourself and you sound capable , then your looking at around 1200 or so for parts and machine shop work.

It's not hard but time consuming.

ETA, MOAR PICS.



ZERO OP. Ugghh.

Mmmmmmm . Nice and clean.

" but I also have coolant mysteriously disappearing. There's no smell in the cab and when I sampled the evap drain water with a antifreeze spectrometer no antifreeze was detectected. Where is it going? Been doing that for three years." 


Bad head gasket in my two cases. BHG's are not always huge catastrophe's with milkshake oil and spun bearings. What could be happening is just a small leak between the coolant passages and the cylinder. On both my explorer and Supra it took a LONG time to even notice, because they cars ran great, and didn't have any abnormal fuel mileage problems.  The explorer just... sucked down coolant like a fat kid with a milkshake faster and faster till the hole opened up big enough to start blowing out the spark in that cylinder.  The Supra started sucking down coolent, and I just got it fixed before it got that bad, ended up having three "holes" (actually, divots in the gasket where cyl. pressure bypassed incorrectly installed heads).  Thing still ran like a champ, got in spec fuel mileage, and no other leaks or smoke to indicate something was wrong. 

Easy to test for, there's a kit to rent at the auto parts store let the car warm up with the radiator cap off, then hold the kit over hole and if exhaust gasses turn the dye a color it's a BHG.  OR, conversely, if it's bad enough you'll be able to see smoke filled bubbles come out that smell like exhaust. 

The thing about the coolant in my case is sometimes it'll use two or three quarts a week and sometimes it'll go a month not showing any low coolant lights or issues such as the heater not heating because the coolant is so low. I ran the original plugs until about 125,000 miles before I changed them. The only thing that prompted me to change them then was one started breaking down under a load and would cause a hard misfire. I figured a bad coil or spark plugs but I threw a set of plugs in it first just to see. Hey always start with the easiest and cheapest (and probably the most obvious due to mileage) and it straightened it right out and it runs like a sewing machine. I figured if I had a leaky head gasket that one or two plugs would have a steam cleaned look. Nope. They all looked about the same albeit the gap was probably triple the factory spec due to the amount of miles. I assume the gap just got so wide the coil couldn't fire it anymore. Under load anyway. New plugs with proper gap and its been fine in that respect.

I guess I don't really know they're NOT Castech heads. I didn't know there was a symbol. I thought the word Castech was cast into the head. I didn't see that anywhere and didn't really look for a symbol. I've always suspected they weren't Castech heads because it doesn't really fall into the date range of the ones that were suspect. It's a 2000 year model, but I ordered it myself and took delivery in the fall of '99. I may be wrong but I don't see the coolant issue being due to a bad head gasket or casting.
It's been a hell of a reliable motor except for the ticking lifters the last few years and the mysteriously disappearing coolant. Hell, the original a/c compressor has just now finally took a crap and it still has the original a/c belt! Irresponsible on my part? Maybe, but like somebody stated already, "if it ain't broke don't fix it"!

So, what I have decided to do is this evening I ran motor medic engine flush and then changed the oil and filter with the same oil I've always ran minus one quart. I used one quart of Ford type F ATF to make up the last quart. I plan to run it up to the original oil change interval which is about 700 miles away. I will keep an eye on the oil and if it gets nasty looking I'll change it sooner. It has throne one CEL since new and that was about three weeks ago when multiple lifters were collapsed and it ran like shit on start up.

I've had zero oil pressure issues thus far. As a matter of fact this evening after the oil change I drove it and flogged the shit out of it up to about 5500 RPM's about three times. Oil pressure got up to almost 80 psi at the 5500 rpm shift point. The oil wasn't cold as I had ran it at idle revving occasionally until it warmed up. We'll see how it goes from this point forward, but I guess the unexplained coolant issue will just continue until something literally breaks on the thing. I don't know really what else to do. I checked the PCV this evening and it rattled fine like it wasn't clogged up. I did spray it out real well with brakleen and it might have cleared it up a little. Still has the original PCV though. I don't know. Stumped on the coolant issue. I just keep a gallon in the bed in case it gets low or something finally craps out in the cooling system. I've got a brand new OEM Delphi compressor, orifice tube, and accumulator/dryer en route. Should be here tomorrow. I'm just gonna drive the damn thing until it presents itself and shows me what the problem is. That's the plan anyway. We'll see what I find out.

That's what I did. Drove it I to the ground. It didn't make it any worse to repair. The crank was still able to be turned and cylinders bored. New crank and cam bearings, rings......


When you change the oil , take a stick or something with a hook on it and run it up in the drain hole and see if clumps of sludge come out.

When I pulled the heads to rebuild mine the gaskets were fine and no sign of damage or leaking. Mine loses coolant mysteriously also. Heads and block were machined flat and heads have been pressure tested and I think the even flux them to check for cracks by to different machine shops. They're fine e.

One thing I did notice I was losing coolant was the plastic heater hose quick connect at the fire wall. It was cracked and coolant was slowly leaking out and evaporating before it was noticed.

Last night after the flush I sprayed brakleen up in the drain hole to see what might come out. Nothing but the same dirty oil that had drained out previously. I was actually trying to hit the oil pick up tube, but not knowing exactly how it was laid out in the pan made that a shot in the dark, so to speak. I've been there done that on the plastic connections. I had to buy one years ago while they were still dealer only items. Now Dorman, motor mite, and everybody else makes replacements. I coulda probably just hooked the heater hose directly to the nipple, but I wanted to do it right. One time a few years back I changed the oil and got quite a bit of milky clumps out of it at the end of the drain. Still don't know what that was about. One time and one time only. Researching that little episode at the time I was hearing that the LS motors build quite a bit of condensation so I just attributed it to that. Never happened again. Who knows. I love these LS motors and my truck, but man are they quirky! I have the clunk in the driveline when you put it in gear sometimes too. And I get a clunk on take off after being in gear. I give up on that one too. I tried the grease the output shaft solution. Worked for maybe 15 minutes. I'm done. Run it till something gives up.

Two main things make those years clunk..the steering shaft that hooks the column to the steering box and the rear driveshaft slip yoke that goes into the tranny/t-case..they make both a replacement steering shaft and a titanium slip yoke that fixes them...I have fixed the slip yoke thunk on many with just coating the teeth with copper anti seize...bad ones got the yoke..

That's not how it works.  

All that temp gauge is telling you is that the temp at the point where the probe is.
It takes a good 20 minutes to get your entire engine up to operating temps and it takes about that long to cook the water / acids out of the water.

You know, while there are some not-so-great dino-oils, in some older very-high-mileage American-made engines I still have found that they work better with dino-oil.

I had a 1991 Jeep with just under 190,000 miles.  Ran fine, but with synthetic it did burn more oil (not noticeably at the tailpipe, but it disappeared for sure), where-as with the 'good' dino-oil (Rotella T 15W-40) I swear that the oil stayed in the crankcase better, and that compression from piston-rings was better.

Same may be with your V-8: the wear on the lifters and piston rings may be better served by dino-oil then synthetic in as far as the lifters maintaining hydraulic pressure, and as far as the compression of the motor (not to mention having to fill it up less).

Certainly do try synthetic if you want to, but while I run, and have always run, everything on synthetic, I learned a lesson with that old Jeep Wrangler.

For now I'll probably continue running the same oil I've been running. Don't really want to change what I've been doing. But, if I can't get this thing cleaned up, I'm going a different route.
As far as the clank, it's definitely the slip yoke. I tried good 'ol high temp high pressure grease. I may give the never-seez a shot though and see how that goes.

Well I still hear a quick rattle in the morning. Truck doesn't run rough though like lifters are collapsing. All ticking goes away except one. I do have one tick that won't go away. I'm sure it's a rocker arm not getting oil. It's on the same side I just did. I guess I'll pull that cover again and do the B12 trick again. I did notice I had 3 or 4 that had mushroomed fucked up looking ends on the pushrods on the rocker end. Obviously fr lack of oil. I'm sure I need to change them out and probably the arms to. They're not rotating at all I'm sure. They have a couple small groves in them already. What I'm wondering is if one of them could be so worn there's too much clearance in the valve lash? I'd think the hydraulic lifter would keep the clearance right but not sure if it's worn so much that the lifter can't set the lash anymore. Maybe it's topped out.